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My thoughts on God...


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#1    Mnemonix

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:59 AM

Assuming you believe in God


Here's another one I don't get.

How do I put this...

God is omnipotent and can do anything with zero effort, such as create the whole universe and all its complexities, such as quantum mechanics or whatever. He's also all-knowing, infinite in everything, and the most merciful, whatever.

So, in religions such as Islam and Christianity, you go to Hell if you don't believe in said religion. In Islam, you apparently go to Hell, even if you're a good person but do not pray 5 times a day and follow the other teachings (according to someone I know).

God created Hell for the non-believers and the wicked people (and Jinns). In Islam, it is a place where you are tortured in the worst possible way for all eternity, where the fires are seven times hotter than the fire in this world.

So, why doesn't God just make us all believers? If someone is wicked, why not just make him good?That way that person doesn't hurt himself and others.

I know some people say, "No, that doesn't work, because you'll never learn from your mistakes, or you'll have no room to develop or find out who you really are in this world, ect, ect, ect.".

But I thought God could do anything, at least think outside the box.

Isn't God supposed to be loving and merciful? How is torturing someone for an eternity an act of love and mercy? If he only loves the believers, that is not unconditional love.These are human souls that are going to be tortured, that feel pain and sadness and were once innocent when they came into this world. Shouldn't God understand that since he created them?

Alright, let's move on to something else. Let's talk about the universe.

We all know the universe is big, it's so big, no human mind can comprehend it. Even the distance between two stars is so big our minds can't comprehend it, although we can calculate it. And there are trillions of stars in this galaxy, and there are trillions of other galaxies out there, and trillions of groups of galaxies out there. You get what I am saying, its a big universe. God created all of it.

Now, I, like every other human, am very small compared to the universe. So small it's beyond compare to the rest of the universe, I think you'll all agree. And, I, as a small human, would no even think of putting even my worst enemy through the hell god created.

But God, who created the big, big universe, would.

So how big is God's mercy compared to the rest of the universe? Did he create something bigger than his own attribute? I'm such a small human, and I have that much mercy, and it's nothing compared to God's mercy and love which is supposed to be bigger than the universe's because God can't create something bigger or grander than himself.

Also, I don't think any parent would want their children to burn in hell. So did God create a love greater than His? Or are human souls so expendable to God? What if God were to burn your children in Hell? How would you feel?

And, God cannot be harmed, I can. So why should he be angry at anything? He has it all, all the time, anything he wants he gets.

I hope I didn't miss out on anything, I hope that gives you something to think about.

It gave me something to think about.

Thank you.

So, why doesn't God just make everyone good, believers, whatever, and not go to hell?


Plain and simple, no pain, no suffering, unconditional love, thinking out of the box.


But I think I agree with some of the members here, maybe religion is just man's way of controlling people. If there's a god out there, we probably don't know anything about what he is like.

Edited by Mnemonix, 21 May 2013 - 07:21 AM.


#2    Mnemonix

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:02 AM

Kindly read through and stick to the topic, otherwise I won't read what you have to say.

Thank you.

For now, using the reasoning God gave me, I feel that something isn't quite right.

There is no mercy there, no matter how you look at it, unless come judgment day, God has some kind of surprise where he forgives everyone and admits them all into heaven. But, no, God never breaks his promises, and when he says people are going to burn in hell forever, they're going to burn in hell forever. Unless he goes against one of his attributes.

Religion for me is very stressful and gives me a lot of headaches.

I'm stressed out at the moment from trying to put my thoughts together to write this.

Edited by Mnemonix, 21 May 2013 - 07:17 AM.


#3    Frank Merton

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:26 AM

I think you should just admit that the God idea doesn't work and become an atheist.  You can still have religion, just not of the Indo-European and Semitic sorts.


#4    Mnemonix

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:27 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 21 May 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

I think you should just admit that the God idea doesn't work and become an atheist.  You can still have religion, just not of the Indo-European and Semitic sorts.

Not giving up on God just, yet, giving the religious folks a chance.

After that, I'm becoming an agnostic.

Besides, I had to get circumcised.

Edited by Mnemonix, 21 May 2013 - 07:39 AM.


#5    Rlyeh

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:59 AM

God is all these things, yet a fictional story is offered for his creation of the universe.


#6    Mnemonix

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:04 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 21 May 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

God is all these things, yet a fictional story is offered for his creation of the universe.

Tell that to the Creationists.


#7    Rlyeh

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:15 AM

View PostMnemonix, on 21 May 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Tell that to the Creationists.
They have a different holy book?


#8    freetoroam

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:42 AM

So, why doesn't God just make everyone good, believers, whatever, and not go to hell?

Plain and simple, no pain, no suffering, unconditional love, thinking out of the box.

===============================================================================

IMO it is proof that there is no god. People are individuals and if there was a god and he did all the above, he would basically be a communist if he wanted all to believe the same and do the same.

Edited by freetoroam, 21 May 2013 - 09:43 AM.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#9    Mikko-kun

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:04 AM

I'm really sceptic towards this kind of religion where you have a god who acts like that. The only thing bothering me is that at the same time, god is all-powerful but also has no mercy. Someone who's all-powerful but yet not powerful enough to extend some mercy instead of eternal condemnation doens't sound all-powerful to me. Maybe that all-powerfulness extends only to things around god, and god itself would not be so self-aware, not self-aware enough to be more merciful and give people a break. If that's so, then god is consequently not all-powerful because he doesn't have power over himself. I know there's the common explanation that Jesus died for our sins and thus we're given a big break, but I dont buy it... it's like backing up an open loan, like backing up someone else's credit card with a large debt-taking availability. I'm sure Jesus meant well and if the story is to be believed there, he might've saved a lot of souls, but I doubt he can save everyone. So it begs the question, what happens to those people when Jesus' backup on our loan on karma/burden/sin is used?
If we truly went to hell, and if the renounced son of god could make us his soldiers, then wouldn't the hell overpower heaven strategically already? I dont buy all that, not the way it's given at least...

If on the other hand god is all-powerful and more merciful, then what happened to the enternal damnation? Will he forgive his once brightest son who turned against him? Will he forgive to the worst of us and give another chance?


I doubt god is all-powerful in the sense a lot of people might think he is, for various reasons. And the reason god doesn't use all-mighty powers on us when it comes to free will questions, is because he values free will. He knows the importance of directing your own life and wants us to show him that we too can be self-aware and that we too can grow up to do that. If we're his children, he'd want that as a parent. I doubt anyone wants their children grow mass-minded idiots who follow just about anything, even though the world does seem to show me very wrong in this. If god had a well-developed mentality, he'd be between the choise of letting people know about him and consequently get the idea that "hey, there's a god and he can make all the bad things go away" even though it's not so because he wants us to think for ourselves as a first priority. He realises that there's no value in doing good things if they're only done because you have to, and thus respects people's free will even if it can bring strife. But this leads me to believe that he doesn't condemn anyone to hell, not forever at the very least, because he's put this test before us in the first place. Believing otherwise would lead one to belief that you can do anything you want those less powerful than you, and I think this is how a lot of people in christian and muslim countries act, very mercilessly. There's a major dilemma.

The most foolish thing I think done by religious people is to assume something that's physical in this world is god's word on us. Just because someone might make a miracle or have a vision doesn't mean it's god's work even if they said it was, because there's room for miracles in this world. Jesus' main ability seemed to be telekinesis and a good head for ethical thinking. Those are something very few if any of us have, according to sceptics none with kinesis, but still human abilities. And visions... we dont have the full grasp of what kind of entities things in the visions are, have we? So I'll refrain from being a believer who strongly believes in mainstream religions as they're represented by a lot of people. If you put all what Jesus did and what was written to a context with what people who have experience of astral traveling, visions (or hallucinations) and of the concept of telekinesis and it's alleged working, and ask yourself do we really know god is all-powerful, and how could we or those who said so, know.

If Jesus was no more a son of god than the rest of us, if Jesus was no more a human than the rest of us, then how could he know better? How could he wrap his head around that concept and at the same time fail to describe it in a way that'd make more sense to us? He and others. I ask because a lot of things dont seem to make sense... that doesn't mean there wouldn't be any higher entity, that's not the only possible conclusion. Another conclusion is that those who wrote about god got it wrong, made assumptions and mistakes. After all, those who wrote about god, weren't gods but us puny humans.

I'll be gone.

#10    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:01 AM

View PostMnemonix, on 21 May 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Not giving up on God just, yet, giving the religious folks a chance.

After that, I'm becoming an agnostic.

Besides, I had to get circumcised.

You can believe in a divine power and not be religious.

You can go the distance, you can run the mile and you can walk straight through HELL with a smile.

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#11    Ever Learning

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:08 AM

To change that what has already been created would mean that God didn't hope for what has happened to happen. It's easy to say why doesn't God change, but I wouldn't wouldn't want to live in a reality where God second guesses his actions. Try to change your personality on the words of someone you disagree with and you already see that to ask God to change is ridiculous.

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#12    Rlyeh

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:17 AM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 21 May 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

To change that what has already been created would mean that God didn't hope for what has happened to happen. It's easy to say why doesn't God change, but I wouldn't wouldn't want to live in a reality where God second guesses his actions. Try to change your personality on the words of someone you disagree with and you already see that to ask God to change is ridiculous.
In Exodus 32, didn't Moses talk God out of slaughtering his people?


#13    Frank Merton

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:19 AM

And God decided to spare the Ninevites when the repented after hearing Jonah's message.


#14    Lilly

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:01 PM

Please do not degenerate into posting inflammatory remarks about others personally or their religious beliefs.

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#15    Mnemonix

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:38 PM

There's a few other thoughts I have about God, but I think I forgot to list them.

View PostLilly, on 21 May 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Please do not degenerate into posting inflammatory remarks about others personally or their religious beliefs.

My apologies, I didn't know I was doing that. Any advice on how I can improve?

View PostArmchair Educated, on 21 May 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

To change that what has already been created would mean that God didn't hope for what has happened to happen. It's easy to say why doesn't God change, but I wouldn't wouldn't want to live in a reality where God second guesses his actions. Try to change your personality on the words of someone you disagree with and you already see that to ask God to change is ridiculous.

Maybe, but how can I love or devote my life to a God who isn't merciful?


I'm wondering if I should try making my points and questions a little clearer.

I know my writing can be messy at times, because maybe I have difficulty putting my thoughts together.

Maybe what I am trying to get across is that I want to know how God is All-merciful and the most loving. It's not easy for me to see God that way and maybe that's why I have difficulty following and believing in him.

Besides, let's say the the Christian's God is the true god, then I'm going to Hell for not accepting Jesus as the son of god.

I think the Christian version of Hell is that the soul just dies, if I'm not mistaken.

In Islam, Hell is eternal punishment and suffering and Heaven is the opposite.

Edited by Mnemonix, 21 May 2013 - 01:45 PM.





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