104 replies to this topic

[bacca]

Why is being liberal a bad thing? When did caring about something bigger then oneself become something to be made fun of? Why did believing that all Americans both gay and straight should have the same equal rights become such a problem for people? How do people justify preventing gay marriage when it has nothing to do with them? What is wrong with caring that my great grand kids can breath clean air and drink clean water? Is waiting to help the planet really something that should be put off? Why did this become something that can wait to be fixed? And even if it is only a slight possibility that we could help, shouldn't we try? Why am I the bad guy because I feel that guns are not always the best option? Is there not something to be said about the idea that some people shouldn't have guns? Why is it that because I like knowing that there are kids eating tonight because they have food stamps I am somehow a person that likes handouts? What is wrong with helping people who need help? Why should anyone feel ashamed because they needed help and asked for it? Why should I feel bad about needing healthcare and being happy that finally I'll be able to get some? Why are we filling our jails with people on marijuana charges and not legalizing it nationwide? Where is the data that it is harmful? Would resources not be better spent on something else? Why am I wrong to not want any religion in my child’s school? Why do some people seem to think that bringing religious beliefs into schools is fair to students who don't share the beliefs? Should public schools not care about all students? Why do some people feel so superior that what they believe is more important than the rights of other people? Who came up with the idea that it was a good thing to try and tell women what they can and can't do in their doctors office with their own bodies? And why is this still an issue that anyone thinks they have a say in? So why is being liberal a bad thing? Why is caring about other people, ALL other people and not just those that fit into a specific group not a good thing? Is it so hard to except that there are ideas, views and beliefs that are different and not harmful? Why can't some people seem to understand that being different and not trying to make everyone believe the same thing, live the same way and want the same things does not make them bad?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

bacca, on 30 January 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

Why is being liberal a bad thing?

because being conservative is good, obviously.
basically, it's human nature to "big up" your group and in order to do that you need to denigrate the other group.

[bacca]

Wearer of Hats, on 30 January 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

because being conservative is good, obviously.
basically, it's human nature to "big up" your group and in order to do that you need to denigrate the other group.

That is to simple I think, I want to know why people are against the questions....why is it bad?

[ninjadude]

who says being a liberal is bad? conservatives? LOL

[Bavarian Raven]

Well half the things you listed have nothing to do with either side of the political spectrum
and coming from a Canadian, What is bad is creating a welfare state, while sucking away peoples rights.

[green_dude777]

I think one of the biggest reasons, in addition to the point Wearer of Hats has made, is people really don't understand the two labels. Liberal and Conservative are terms that are relative to each other (I have been labeled as one or the other depending on the topic).  People like to create a 'black and white' view of things.

At the minimum, there should at least be 4 differently labeled groups, at least in the U.S.

1) Fiscally liberal, socially liberal
2) Fiscally liberal, socially conservative
3) Fiscally conservative, socially conservative
4) Fiscally conservative, socially liberal

[little_dreamer]

Just to play along, the liberal stereotype is a person who wants to spend excess government money, usually on people who don't contribute to society.  This stereotype character has a bleeding heart and thinks criminals can be redeemed and are misunderstood.

This is the negative image of the liberal.  Do I believe it?   It may be true for a some liberals, but not all.

Edited by little_dreamer, 31 January 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[bacca]

I didn't use the term democrat for a reason. They are considered liberal ideas and treated by those who don't have them as evil, bad or stupid. It isn't simply politics it is everyday life people that I speak to when out etc....The things mentioned are made fun of, if you don't like the idea of harming the environment you're a tree hugger etc...

[Orcseeker]

This is a rather relative question. I tend to be on your side with most things you have mentioned.

Gay marriage and homosexuality in general I don't believe is actually an issue to most people, it is of the most part plays on their insecurities and lack of understanding which gives them an aggressive ground.

The American Indians followed the idea of keeping the land healthy for future generations and quite frankly, they knew what was up.

As like the other things you mentioned I believe it comes down the spreading of misinformation. These days people won't really do anything unless the media plays it out like a huge deal and instills fear into everyone. While feeding them false and inaccurate information.

[bacca]

Orcseeker, on 31 January 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

This is a rather relative question. I tend to be on your side with most things you have mentioned.

Gay marriage and homosexuality in general I don't believe is actually an issue to most people, it is of the most part plays on their insecurities and lack of understanding which gives them an aggressive ground.

The American Indians followed the idea of keeping the land healthy for future generations and quite frankly, they knew what was up.

As like the other things you mentioned I believe it comes down the spreading of misinformation. These days people won't really do anything unless the media plays it out like a huge deal and instills fear into everyone. While feeding them false and inaccurate information.

I agree that some opinions could be from lack of knowledge, but not all. I think it would be simple to say that people just don't know or understand, but many do and yet still think that these are wrong or bad...

[AsteroidX]

I am not a liberal. I am not a right winger. I talk with some right wing folks however. Im just as willing to talk with liberals.

The reason I get is that they dont like the welfare state of people getting everything for free and riding on the backs of those that work and earn for a living. I dont agree with them lumping that into a term "those damn liberals" because I understand the liberal beliefs and I also share those. The welfare problem is a socioeconomic problem not a liberal one. The right believes that these "welfare" people vote democratic/liberal so that they can continue there free lifestyle. My personal belief is that with a population of over 300million people some form of welfare is an absolute necessity.

Right now they blame liberals for putting Obama back in office and by proxy enabling the current homeland crisis we are in. They think liberals support Obama taking away there guns. (Despite the fact that gun lovers come from both side of the equation they still see the dirty hippie syndrome).

That is the short and skinny of it.

Of course theres other more personal issues that will never be resolved such as gay marriage for some. But that is not what prevents us from getting along. Really that is a side topic that could be easily set aside for the greater good.

You are only the second liberal that has actually come forward to ask this question so I hope I am answering your question and if you have any other questions I would be happy to try and be helpful. My personal belief is that divided we will fall, united we shall stand. So I would like to see us as a people come together for the betterment of this country and humanity in general.

There is several issues that both groups are equally passionate about. The environment, economics and eliminating these crazy school shootings and the rape of our population by molesters and pedophiles.

The right would like to have the left stand with them and perhaps things are getting to the point where that will happen in a rapid way for the greater good of this country. But to coin a term Tread Lightly is in order as the right is very agitated in general right now.

What the right knows is that our current government both democrats and republican at this point are incapable of solving our problems as a nation and want the government to be removed and replaced as our Constitution has said we should do when faced with tyranny. They do view Obama as a Tyrant. As is there nature they dont feel obligated to "depend" on the left to be there to support them. So perhaps there is where you may feel shunned. The right is an independent group of individuals that are strongly opinionated. They dont want to chit chat about solutions to the current problems. They want them resolved.

So if the liberals feel like they can set aside the differences we have and not rock the boat when it comes to changing our circumstances I am certain there is plenty of room at the table for us to share the best way to find a hopefully peaceful resolution to this countries problems and to stop being the worlds policeman and lead by example for the world instead. The Right is extremely supportive of current and ex military. But is not impressed by this continuing illegal war mongering thats going on by our POTUS especially as it is occurring without Congressional approval.

2 sure fire ways to p*** off the right is to talk about gun control and immigration. The center of the right is committed to maintaining the Constitution and not altering or infringing on the rights that are written in it.

I haven't really talked with them much about why the immigration issue is an issue but I think it stems from jobs lost at home and going overseas. Perhaps theres some racism in there as well. I do know they see the immigration problem to be tied to the welfare state problem so perhaps its more about them being tax payers and using legal entry to America instead of illegal entry. The right does not like drugs being transported across the borders and the crime that comes with it.

They are not real big on legalization of drugs in general but I talk freely about living in a Green State with medical marijuana and they certainly dont have a problem with that view in the circle I talk with. They do fear Juarez type violence entering our country and definitely are anti crime and believe in defending there homes and families by any means necessary.. I dont however think they like the overzealous imprisoning of people for petty crime and the industry thats came out of it. So in the differences there is some common ground.

I for one am certainly open to dialogue and solution based talk with both Liberals and Conservatives. Though I dont speak for them and would never claim to but I do speak to a nationally diverse group and would be able to level some compromise and cooperation between the groups I share with. But its a two way street. The Liberals have to understand this is not a half measure opportunity..In the end we will go back to having differences but perhaps without the governments intervention we will have more common ground then we do now or have had for some time.

The media has done a good job of demonizing both groups. When in reality we are one country one people.

Edited by AsteroidX, 31 January 2013 - 01:11 AM.

[F3SS]

Your op comes off as a pity party.
It's not that your ideals are bad on the surface but when they, many of them at least, are admitted as policy they spiral fiscally out of control and when there are any attempts to pull in the reins liberals throw a fit and deem whomever makes such an attempt as heartless, cold and uncaring, nazi, racist you know... Fiscally liberal is bad. Socially liberal isn't nearly as bad except for one thing. Many liberals demand you notice and take action about something they feel passionate about, slander strings attached. Whereas conservatives will ask you to take notice of their causes and help if you like, no strings attached. It's help me vs leave me alone.

[Jeremiah65]

Why is being liberal a bad thing?

It’s not, as a Libertarian myself, I feel you are entitled to your opinion and viewpoint even if I disagree with some of your positions.

When did caring about something bigger then oneself become something to be made fun of?

People denigrate and ridicule that which they don’t understand or disagree with.  It is easier for them to maintain their world view if they trample on yours.  Sad, but true.

Why did believing that all Americans both gay and straight should have the same equal rights become such a problem for people? How do people justify preventing gay marriage when it has nothing to do with them?

As a Libertarian, I could care less who a person loves or marries.  It is not my concern and will not alter my life or world in any way, shape or form.  Hell, you can marry your mailbox for all I care…it has zero effect on me personally.


What is wrong with caring that my great grand kids can breath clean air and drink clean water? Is waiting to help the planet really something that should be put off? Why did this become something that can wait to be fixed? And even if it is only a slight possibility that we could help, shouldn't we try?

Pollution is not good for anyone, rich or poor.  As far as climate change, there is still big money involved in this and as long as money is involved, there will never be a clear resolution for the average person.  They will continue to hear two sides of the story.  Personally I believe climate change is real and for me, it is irrelevant if it is man made or not.  We should be preparing for the changes that are more than likely going to happen.  If they do not happen…so what?  We might have a few extra lakes, reservoirs and aqueducts.



Why am I the bad guy because I feel that guns are not always the best option? Is there not something to be said about the idea that some people shouldn't have guns?

Not everyone is a criminal or a psychopath.  It is wrong to punish the many for the crimes and mistakes of the few.  I currently do not own any firearms ( I used to) but I might want to one day.  I do not want or need (or even appreciate) the mob mentality or want their approval.  I believe in the Constitution, I believe in individual freedom and personal responsibility.


Why is it that because I like knowing that there are kids eating tonight because they have food stamps I am somehow a person that likes handouts? What is wrong with helping people who need help? Why should anyone feel ashamed because they needed help and asked for it?

This is a tough one.  I do not, for an instant, want to see another innocent human being suffer.  This topic has so many shades though.  The GOV can create indentured servants through hand out programs…to the point they may one day say ‘Do what I tell you or no more aid.”…This is the fear of freedom loving people.  I personally believe we should empower people to take care of themselves.  Let them do whatever they can do to earn a living and the GOV needs to get the hell out of the way.

Why should I feel bad about needing healthcare and being happy that finally I'll be able to get some?

The Affordable healthcare act is a sham.  It props up a private industry by forcing you to buy a private, corporate product.  If the POTUS wanted universal healthcare, he should have went with single payer (socialized) system.  He didn’t.  He propped up the insurance corporations and through the backdoor, he helped fund the securities brokers on Wall Street…they are who backs up the insurance companies.  It is Cronyism at it’s finest and I personally despise it.


Why are we filling our jails with people on marijuana charges and not legalizing it nationwide? Where is the data that it is harmful? Would resources not be better spent on something else?

No argument from me here…I too believe it should be legal.  It is far less damaging than alcohol and addictive pharmaceuticals.


Why am I wrong to not want any religion in my child’s school? Why do some people seem to think that bringing religious beliefs into schools is fair to students who don't share the beliefs? Should public schools not care about all students?  Why do some people feel so superior that what they believe is more important than the rights of other people?

Good question.  I grew up in a time when we said morning prayer and the pledge of allegiance.  I did not come out to be a Bible thumping lunatic…but it did not harm me either.  I am quite comfortable with all religions and philosophies…none more than another.  BUT…religion and philosophy are the foundation stones of civilization.  Check into the oldest megalithic structures in the world (Gobekli-Tepe)…they were built for worship…at 12,000 +/- years old, that should tell you something.

Why do some people feel so superior?  It’s called ego and arrogance and we all suffer from it to some extent…some, more than others.


Who came up with the idea that it was a good thing to try and tell women what they can and can't do in their doctors office with their own bodies? And why is this still an issue that anyone thinks they have a say in?

No argument from me here.  I also believe it’s no one’s business but the woman her family, her doctor and whatever God she might pray to…the “neighborhood” needs to stay out of it.


So why is being liberal a bad thing? Why is caring about other people, ALL other people and not just those that fit into a specific group not a good thing?

It isn’t.  What is bad is the means and methods sometimes used to carry these ‘good deeds” out.  Most people do not like being “dictated” to…most people will help in whatever way they can…but when Big GOV comes, takes a third of your paycheck and wastes most of it in bureaucracy and stupid crap…people get upset.

Is it so hard to except that there are ideas, views and beliefs that are different and not harmful?

Not at all.  Different strokes for different folks.  Diversity makes the world go around and fresh ideas are how we advance as a species.  Everything should always be put on the table.  When something is left off the table, the first thing you should ask is ‘why?”

Why can't some people seem to understand that being different and not trying to make everyone believe the same thing, live the same way and want the same things does not make them bad?

Most people I know don’t in general.  They have an issue with this or that topic, but for the most part…they just want to be free.  Yes, there are a lot of ignorant and fearful people in this world.  They fear the unknown and because they are afraid and do not understand it, they don’t want anyone else to go where they fear to tread…you might learn something they are afraid to learn.

Hope that helps.

As I said multiple times….I am a Libertarian.  I believe in big freedom, personal responsibility and small Government.  I believe in social freedom and fiscal responsibility.  I believe that in the end, “true” freedom is the answer to our problems…financially and socially…

But that is just my opinion.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 31 January 2013 - 01:18 AM.

[bacca]

-Mr_Fess-, on 31 January 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Your op comes off as a pity party.
It's not that your ideals are bad on the surface but when they, many of them at least, are admitted as policy they spiral fiscally out of control and when there are any attempts to pull in the reins liberals throw a fit and deem whomever makes such an attempt as heartless, cold and uncaring, nazi, racist you know... Fiscally liberal is bad. Socially liberal isn't nearly as bad except for one thing. Many liberals demand you notice and take action about something they feel passionate about, slander strings attached. Whereas conservatives will ask you to take notice of their causes and help if you like, no strings attached. It's help me vs leave me alone.

It isn't a pity party it is a question about why would a group of people actively work to prevent others from having things that do not effect them...Social issues should not have any place in politics, but they do, so there are people who are against everything I mentioned, they will belittle, and vilify anyone who believes the above mentioned. If conservatives would be ok with people being different, with the idea that not everyone needs to dislike people who want different lives than they do it would be fine, but conservatives are actively working to prevent these things, they are actively working to keep people whom they disagree with from having rights and privileges...this is what I want to understand.

Edited by bacca, 31 January 2013 - 01:24 AM.

[Jeremiah65]

I just wanted to add this.

Many times, Liberals come off a little over the top.  They want to tell other people how to live, what to eat, how to raise their children...even what kind of cars or homes they can own.  They still have this ideal that 51% of the people (the majority...aka...the "mob") should be able to dictate to the 49% (the minority) about such things.  We are a Constitutional republic based on a Nomocracy (the rule of law)...the rights and laws are to be equally applied to the many, the few and even the one.  When the few or the one lose their voice to the mob...we have serious problems and collapse is inevitable.

My personal philosophy is this.  Live free.  You can do whatever you want in the privacy of your home.  If you want to sit around naked all day, smoke dope and watch porn...I could care less.  I will not cross over the fence to tell you what a "bad person" you are.  I also expect full reciprocation.  I do not want or need another person's opinion or instruction about how I choose to live my life.  Give me my freedom and you can have yours.  As long as my freedom doesn't impose upon yours and yours does not hamper mine....we should be good to go.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 31 January 2013 - 01:40 AM.