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Mob in Pakistan kills man accused of burning


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#16    pallidin

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:29 PM

I want to burn a Koran.

Well, just talking the truth, for me.

Edited by pallidin, 22 December 2012 - 09:31 PM.


#17    Jessica Christ

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:33 PM

View Postsupervike, on 22 December 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

That just seems like doublespeak.

People have been murdering in the name of their Gods for ages.  They don't deserve more time to 'come to grips' with their own religion.  It's wrong, and we should call it out when we see it.

I agree, it is wrong. Our society still had its own time to mature on its own terms. Other societies will be afforded the same.

Not only is it improper to attempt to forcefully change another society it is ineffective and quite colonialist.

In other words if all you are doing is adding negativity into the pot, don't cry about the stew being stale or sour.

The other guy threw something bad into the pot so to get even I am going to do the same? I don't think that kind of tribal thinking works...

Edited by I believe you, 22 December 2012 - 09:35 PM.


#18    freetoroam

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

If these people spend more time hating and attacking the men of Islam instead of helping the women of Islam then I am not buying it.
Unicef are not soldiers.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#19    freetoroam

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:37 PM

View Postpallidin, on 22 December 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

I want to burn a Koran.

Well, just talking the truth, for me.
Do not believe it is illegal in this country, as long as you do not do it in a mosque.....thats right, a mosque, one of many springing up around the country!

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#20    pallidin

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:37 PM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

I agree, it is wrong. Our society still had its own time to mature on its own terms. Other societies will be afforded the same.

Not only is it improper to attempt to forcefully change another society it is ineffective and quite colonialist.

In other words if all you are doing is adding negativity into the pot, don't cry about the stew being stale or sour.

The other guy threw something bad into the pot so to get even I am going to do the same? I don't think that kind of tribal thinking works...

Oh, come on, get even. You will sleep better tonight.


#21    Jessica Christ

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:40 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 22 December 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

Unicef are not soldiers.

Fallacy of association.Geert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali are part of the problem as are those who think like them.

On the other hand an organization like the UN, as you stated unicef, and NGOs that help and report the situation are neutral.

Individuals who take their data to hate Muslims should be decompartmentalized from UN and other NGOs. They are not the same entity, not even near.

Edited by I believe you, 22 December 2012 - 09:42 PM.


#22    supervike

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

I agree, it is wrong. Our society still had its own time to mature on its own terms. Other societies will be afforded the same.

Not only is it improper to attempt to forcefully change another society it is ineffective and quite colonialist.

In other words if all you are doing is adding negativity into the pot, don't cry about the stew being stale or sour.

The other guy threw something bad into the pot so to get even I am going to do the same? I don't think that kind of tribal thinking works...

I understand your bigger point, but I'm not seeing it as a 'us vs them' philosophy.

The people affected by this madness are still human beings, and deserve to be spoken up for (at the very least).

But, to your point, how much time would be proper in allowing that society to 'grow up' on their own accord?  We are already talking 1000's of years, how much longer?


#23    Jessica Christ

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

View Postsupervike, on 22 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I understand your bigger point, but I'm not seeing it as a 'us vs them' philosophy.

The people affected by this madness are still human beings, and deserve to be spoken up for (at the very least).

But, to your point, how much time would be proper in allowing that society to 'grow up' on their own accord?  We are already talking 1000's of years, how much longer?

While you are asking, in all earnesty, perhaps you should also include us.

How much longer are we ourselves going to need? How much longer? We are already talking 1000's of years. Look at all the problems we have.

Can we honestly sit and blame their society for producing murderers but forget that our own society has produced Sandy Hook. I understand many want to emphasize individualism but to do so to the point to be blind to the fact that we as a society also produce our own shames, how much more time are we going to take to take care of our own issues?

Oh, you claim it is not "them vs us" but in the end if you just focus on their negatives then it very much is.

Edited by I believe you, 22 December 2012 - 09:47 PM.


#24    freetoroam

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:47 PM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Fallacy of association.Geert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali are part of the problem as are those who think like them. An organization like the UN, as you stated unicef, and NGOs that help and report the situation are neutral. Individuals who take their date to hate Muslims should be decompartmentalized from UN and other NGOs.
I took my date to hate the muslims when I lost a friend on a bus which they blew up in LONDON!
I have seen how UNDIVERSE they are and am sick and tired of people telling me i have to be diverse and embrace them...when they so clearly have no intentions of integrating within the western world.
I am not religion but respect most.....except one which has barbaric laws and has no place in the western world.


I know not all muslims indivitually are bad, but they happen to follow a religion that is.... and that says a lot about a person to me!!

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#25    Jessica Christ

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 22 December 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

I took my date to hate the muslims when I lost a friend on a bus which they blew up in LONDON!
I have seen how UNDIVERSE they are and am sick and tired of people telling me i have to be diverse and embrace them...when they so clearly have no intentions of integrating within the western world.
I am not religion but respect most.....except one which has barbaric laws and has no place in the western world.


I know not all muslims indivitually are bad, but they happen to follow a religion that is.... and that says a lot about a person to me!!

I appreciate your honesty and if I were you I would feel the same most likely.


#26    pallidin

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:49 PM

View Postsupervike, on 22 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I understand your bigger point, but I'm not seeing it as a 'us vs them' philosophy.

The people affected by this madness are still human beings, and deserve to be spoken up for (at the very least).

But, to your point, how much time would be proper in allowing that society to 'grow up' on their own accord?  We are already talking 1000's of years, how much longer?


They would have to abandon the Koran, that's how. Nothing short of it.

I remember hearing once that certain Greek "god's were all the rage.


#27    GreenmansGod

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

Sandy Hook was one nut case with a gun, this was 200 nut cases with rocks.  Do you see your fallacy?

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#28    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:50 PM

View Postsupervike, on 22 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

But, to your point, how much time would be proper in allowing that society to 'grow up' on their own accord?  We are already talking 1000's of years, how much longer?

Their book never changes, hence they will never evolve, same thing with every other religion that follows a bible.

They will never evolve.

Edited by HavocWing, 22 December 2012 - 11:49 PM.

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#29    Order66

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:03 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 22 December 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:



There book never changes, hence they will never evolve, same thing with every other religion that follows a bible.

They will never evolve.

I can remember my old math book said 1+1=2. Pfft, so antiquated! Today's math is more sensitive to the needs of 3. The English book was even Worse. "parts of speech"? Hate speech, maybe!

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#30    shadowhive

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

View PostI believe you, on 22 December 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

While you are asking, in all earnesty, perhaps you should also include us.

How much longer are we ourselves going to need? How much longer? We are already talking 1000's of years. Look at all the problems we have.

Can we honestly sit and blame their society for producing murderers but forget that our own society has produced Sandy Hook. I understand many want to emphasize individualism but to do so to the point to be blind to the fact that we as a society also produce our own shames, how much more time are we going to take to take care of our own issues?

Oh, you claim it is not "them vs us" but in the end if you just focus on their negatives then it very much is.

Excuse me but there's a big difference between western society and there, that killing being a prime example.

That killing was universally condemned and done by one man, not endorsed by religion or the government. Compare that to the mob. A mob of 200 motivated by their religion, with the goverment on their side and no one in their country really condemning them. Now that is a world of difference.

As others have said, how long should we give them to 'evolve' because honestly, these people are centuries behind us.

Murder is wrong, universally and we should condemn it. Be it the man who decides to shoot up the school, the terrorist who blows himself up or the mob that kills a man. All should be condemned with equal measure. We shouldn't be pausing and treating this thing as you want to. You seemingly want to lessen the tragedy of this man's death, to cast the calllousness of the act aside as something done simply as 'part of the culture'. That we shouldn't condemn it and instead 'give them time'. I'm sorry, but no we should not and to do as you ask belittle's his death and every other at the hands of these kinds of people.

Sorry, but I'm going to condemn those people as readily as anyone else that commits an act of murder, regardless of who or where they are. I'm also going to condemn their society because unlike America, it's a society that condones this behaviour and I cannot in good conscience do anything other than condemn it.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
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