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[Merged] Did we land on the moon?

nasa apollo hoax

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#1786    skyeagle409

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:05 AM

View Postturbonium, on 30 March 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

You think briefly mentioning Apollo somehow "confirms the reality" of it!

In the link  you'd posted, yes!

In addition:





Edited by skyeagle409, 30 March 2013 - 10:37 AM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1787    postbaguk

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:04 PM

View Postturbonium, on 29 March 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:



Documents of note..

http://docserver.ing...52CD74C7511C4E5

In the above document, flexibilty is an issue.


http://docserver.ing...AE9E92D3392FB16


Above document is on gloves.

So if Apollo suits were flexible enough for deep knee bends, and had gloves capable of closed fists....

Why is it not yet possible, decades later??  

A big conflict here...

No-one is disputing that flexibility is an issue. Once again, you are conflating the concepts of "difficulty" and "impossibility". It takes a lot of work to get the deep knee bends seen in Apollo suits. Look at the videos, the astronaut is clearly struggling to get up. He is able to achieve the deep knee bend required once he gets his body weight in a position to help him.

If you disagree, perhaps then you could explicitly point out where in the documents you linked to it proves that pressurised suits can't bend more than ninety degrees at the knee. In particular, please point out why your argument doesn't apply to the pressurised Sokol spacesuit, as shown below:-

Posted Image

Sky Eagle provided a link to an interesting video that will hopefully help the penny drop for you on this issue. I've included a still below, taken when the suit is pressurised at 3.5psi. It's at the 4:18 point in the video. EDIT:- There is an even clearer example at 9:18 in the video. Check it out.

Posted Image

So, three things for you.

1. Where in the documentation you linked to does it explicitly state that pressurised suits can't do what we clearly see being done with the Sokol and Apollo suits?

2. Why is the Sokol suit able to be so visibly bent at the knee while pressurised?

3. Why does the pressurised suit in simulated lunar gravity show a knee bend similar to that shown in the Apollo videos?

Or, you can just stop this charade now, grow a set and admit you were wrong about the space suit issue. I'm not holding my breath on that one...

Edited by postbaguk, 30 March 2013 - 12:49 PM.


#1788    Eluus

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:49 PM

View Postturbonium, on 30 March 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:


How could I have missed such an obvious point as this?!? :-*


That's what you do best


#1789    karrde

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:40 PM

People, don't you have life and business, but waste your time with this turbo-broken kid? It doesn't matter what you do, it is just untreatable. If you launched it in orbit and send it to the moon, it will still believe it is in some holywood studio... until you make a hole in its spacesuit.


#1790    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:32 PM

View Postkarrde, on 31 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

People, don't you have life and business, but waste your time with this turbo-broken kid? It doesn't matter what you do, it is just untreatable. If you launched it in orbit and send it to the moon, it will still believe it is in some holywood studio... until you make a hole in its spacesuit.
We aren't wasting our time with him. We know he is beyond logic and reason. We know that he will make himself look foolish by ignoring the facts presented and by dishonestly shifting the goal posts every time he is proven wrong. But that is kind of the point. turbonium, by highlighting the fact that he has no facts, no logic and no credibility does a far better job of showing how truly idiotic the hoax believer position is than any of us. He is in fact a better weapon for destroying the myth than any of the rest of us.

It's not about turbonium, it is about those with a doubts, but with an open mind. Those people should be allowed to see the facts, they should be allowed to see how poor the hoax believer position is. To allow people like turbonium a free reign to spread their falsehoods without reply would be to do thinking people with doubts a dis-service.

Mind you if you think turbs is bad, you should have been here when straydog was still around.

p.s. turbonium is a "he" not an "it". No matter how much you disagree with his point of view he is still a human being, at least show him that small amount of respect.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 01 April 2013 - 03:36 PM.

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#1791    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:39 PM

View Postturbonium, on 29 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

You try again with this.....nonsense...  
I'm not trying any nonsense I leave that to you, you've had much more practice at it.

The problem for you is that the burden of proof is an inconvenient truth. You do with it what you do with facts, cherry pick. You try to apply it when you think it is convenient and ignore it when it isn't. It doesn't work that way.


View Postturbonium, on 29 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

"As the accepted truth there is no burden of proof on Apollo... it is already considered proven"
Ah, you've posted something that is actually correct. Oh, wait a minute, those aren't your words they are mine. Still it's the only logical sentence in your post.

View Postturbonium, on 29 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

What is the "accepted truth", in regard to Apollo? It is the official account of Apollo, which (most) people accept as true.

That is all it means.
Well it's a start. What is the accepted truth if it is not that which is accepted as true? Since by you own admission Apollo is accepted as true by the vast majority then you are making yourself look even more illogical and even more daft arguing against it.

But it isn't all. You are wrong. It's easy to tell when you are wrong about Apollo... you've posted something.

In the case of aeronautical and astronautical records there is an official body which ratifies them. It is not controlled by the US government and isn't even American. It is the  Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) and it is an international body based in Paris.

The FAI have ratified Apollo 11. Thus Apollo has to be considered accepted truth unless enough evidence can be found to overturn that ratification. Fancy dropping them a line? Do you think you can prove to them that Apollo was fake?

View Postturbonium, on 29 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

It doesn't prove Apollo - just because it's accepted as 'truth', (or mostly is), does not make it the truth.
And he's back. I wondered how long before you resorted to dishonest tactics. Here we have a straw man argument. I didn't say that because it was the accepted truth it must be the truth? Why do you think I used the word accepted?

View Postturbonium, on 29 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Something accepted as truth still has a burden of proof, even your glorious Apollo story.
Even by your standard this is moronic. What you are saying is that which has been accepted as true must be proven as true. That is quite ridiculous. If something is accepted as true it is because it has passed the tests set of it. It has no burden of proof as it has already been accepted as true. To the vast majority of the population of the planet and to the official ratifying body Apollo is true. NASA do not need to prove anything to them as it is "accepted" that they have already proven their case.

View Postturbonium, on 29 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Many of our previous 'accepted truths' were found to be completely wrong, many years, even centuries, later..
Yes, but the new theories which over turned them did so because they had the burden of proof and they passed it. They over turned the perceived truth because they presented evidence which was a better fit than the previous theory. The hoax theory has not done this. It does not have the weight of evidence on it's side.

View Postturbonium, on 29 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Apollo is accepted as truth by fewer people today than ever before. In the past, it wasn't held up to scrutiny.
If you are the best on offer it still isn't,

View Postturbonium, on 29 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Clearly, Apollo has the burden of proof.          ,
Clearly as it is the ACCEPTED TRUTH it doesn't.
You do.

You know you do and you can't meet that burden which is why you try to turn it on it's head. If you REALLY believed you had a case you would accept the burden of proof with open arms. The fact you run away from it is a clear indication that you know your case is not supported by the evidence... and if you don't believe it how are you going to persuade others to?

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 01 April 2013 - 04:40 PM.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#1792    redsquare

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:05 PM

Did the US land on the moon or was it a hoax ? Personally I am beginning to think they didn't and my reasons for this are simple.

If the US has been to the moon then why haven't they returned ? or why hasn't any other country sent people to the moon ? surely after the US did it every other country would want a piece of the action. So they must have  hoaxed it.


#1793    Iron_Lotus

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:12 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 01 April 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

We aren't wasting our time with him. We know he is beyond logic and reason. We know that he will make himself look foolish by ignoring the facts presented and by dishonestly shifting the goal posts every time he is proven wrong. But that is kind of the point. turbonium, by highlighting the fact that he has no facts, no logic and no credibility does a far better job of showing how truly idiotic the hoax believer position is than any of us. He is in fact a better weapon for destroying the myth than any of the rest of us.

It's not about turbonium, it is about those with a doubts, but with an open mind. Those people should be allowed to see the facts, they should be allowed to see how poor the hoax believer position is. To allow people like turbonium a free reign to spread their falsehoods without reply would be to do thinking people with doubts a dis-service.

Mind you if you think turbs is bad, you should have been here when straydog was still around.

p.s. turbonium is a "he" not an "it". No matter how much you disagree with his point of view he is still a human being, at least show him that small amount of respect.

i agree with most of this except having to show any amount of respect to turbs. respect is earned not given and in my shortish time here he sure as hell hasn't done anything to earn my respect. he dodges questions, and waves off post after post after post of people refuting his own posts. you tell me what he has done to earn any amount of respect from anybody.


#1794    Czero 101

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:53 PM

View Postredsquare, on 01 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Did the US land on the moon or was it a hoax ? Personally I am beginning to think they didn't and my reasons for this are simple.

If the US has been to the moon then why haven't they returned ? or why hasn't any other country sent people to the moon ? surely after the US did it every other country would want a piece of the action. So they must have  hoaxed it.

They did return, for a total of 6 landings. They stopped because their budget was cut by a shortsighted government.

This is also the reason why no other country has been able to - lack of funding. What other country at the time or even until recent years has had anything near the financial backing and / or political willpower to put such a mission together from scratch? The Soviets tried, but they couldn't build a launch vehicle that could withstand more than 2 minutes of flight time before blowing itself to bits. After that failure (which was just another in a long, long list of failures by the Soviets), their Lunar program imploded upon itself.

You're free to believe whatever the heck you want, but unless you have any hard, verifiable facts to back up your speculation, you just have a belief, nothing more.

So do you have any actual facts (with sources) to bring out?  Burden of proof is yours.






Cz

Edited by Czero 101, 01 April 2013 - 09:57 PM.

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#1795    frenat

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:34 PM

View Postredsquare, on 01 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Did the US land on the moon or was it a hoax ? Personally I am beginning to think they didn't and my reasons for this are simple.

If the US has been to the moon then why haven't they returned ? or why hasn't any other country sent people to the moon ? surely after the US did it every other country would want a piece of the action. So they must have  hoaxed it.

Congress approves the entire US space budget.  They cut funding for Moon trips before Apollo was even finished.  They haven't been interested in paying for it since.  Politicians are more concerned with what will help them in the next election and not what will have a payoff 2 or 3 elections later.  Only Russia has had the infrastructure to get there.  They tried and continued to try until 1974 when they finally shut down their program.  They couldn't keep their heavy lifting booster ( the N-1) from exploding.  A little hard to get there that way.  No other country has had the infrastructure, money, and/or political will since then to even try.  China says they do now but we'll see.  Your argument holds no water.

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#1796    postbaguk

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:04 AM

View Postredsquare, on 01 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Did the US land on the moon or was it a hoax ? Personally I am beginning to think they didn't and my reasons for this are simple.

If the US has been to the moon then why haven't they returned ? or why hasn't any other country sent people to the moon ? surely after the US did it every other country would want a piece of the action. So they must have  hoaxed it.

I could use exactly the same argument to prove they didn't fake it.

If the US had faked the moon landings why hasn't any other country faked sending people to the moon? Surely after the US did it every other country would want a piece of the action. So they must have done it for real.

Edited by postbaguk, 02 April 2013 - 12:05 AM.


#1797    skyeagle409

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:23 AM

View Postredsquare, on 01 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Did the US land on the moon or was it a hoax ? Personally I am beginning to think they didn't and my reasons for this are simple.

If the US has been to the moon then why haven't they returned ? or why hasn't any other country sent people to the moon ? surely after the US did it every other country would want a piece of the action. So they must have  hoaxed it.


View Postredsquare, on 01 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Did the US land on the moon or was it a hoax ? Personally I am beginning to think they didn't and my reasons for this are simple.

If the US has been to the moon then why haven't they returned ? or why hasn't any other country sent people to the moon ? surely after the US did it every other country would want a piece of the action. So they must have  hoaxed it.

Money for reason, however, there have been nations that have sent spacecraft to the moon and they have confirmed the Apollo landing sites on the moon.

*   Sternwarte Bochum Observatory in Germany tracked the astronauts and intercepted the television signals from Apollo 16. The image was re-recorded in black and white in the 625 lines, 25 frames/s television standard onto 2-inch videotape using their sole quad machine. The transmissions are only of the astronauts and do not contain any voice from Houston, as the signal received came from the Moon only. The videotapes are held in storage at the observator

*   The Bochum Observatory director (Professor Heinz Kaminski) was able to provide confirmation of events and data independent of both the Russian and U.S. space agencies.

*   Jodrell Bank Observatory in the UK, the telescope was used to observe the Apollo 11. At the same time, Jodrell Bank scientists tracking the unmanned Soviet spacecraft Luna 15, which was trying to land on the Moon. In July 2009, Jodrell released some recordings they made.

*   Larry Baysinger, a technician for WHAS radio in Louisville, Kentucky, independently detected and recorded transmissions between Apollo 11 astronauts on the lunar surface and in the command module.

Recordings made by Baysinger share certain characteristics with recordings made at Bochum Observatory by Heinz Kaminski (see above), in that both Kaminski's and Baysinger's recordings do not include the capsule communicator in Houston and the associated Quindar tonesheard in NASA audio and seen on NASA Apollo 11 transcripts. Kaminski and Baysinger could only hear the transmissions from the Moon, and not transmissions to the Moon from the earth

*   Corralitos Observatory photographed Apollo 14

*   Jewett Observatory at Washington State University reported sightings of Apollo 16

*   The Madrid Apollo Station, now part of the Deep Space Network, built in Fresnedillas, near Madrid, Spain tracked Apollo 11

*   Parts of Surveyor 3, which landed on the Moon in April 1967, were brought back to Earth by Apollo 12 in November 1969. These samples were shown to have been exposed to lunar conditions.

*   China's second lunar probe, Chang'e 2, which was launched in 2010 is capable of capturing lunar surface images with a resolution of up to 1.3 metres (4.3 ft). It spotted traces of the Apollo landings.

*   n 2008, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) SELENE lunar probe obtained several photographs showing evidence of Moon landings. On the left are two photos taken on the lunar surface by Apollo 15 astronauts in July or August 1971. On the right is a 2008 reconstruction from images taken by the SELENE terrain camera and 3-D projected to the same vantage point as the surface photos. The terrain is a close match within the SELENE camera resolution of 10 meters.

http://en.wikipedia....o_Moon_landings

Facts and evidence from around the world that confirmed the reality of the Apollo moon missions.

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#1798    karrde

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:29 PM

View Postredsquare, on 01 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Did the US land on the moon or was it a hoax ? Personally I am beginning to think they didn't and my reasons for this are simple.

If the US has been to the moon then why haven't they returned ? or why hasn't any other country sent people to the moon ? surely after the US did it every other country would want a piece of the action. So they must have  hoaxed it.

I can answer to this question with a well known example: Concord. The plane was created in the 60s and flew up to several years ago. In spite of our technology now, 40+ years after first Concord flight, no one is trying to build another supersonic passanger plane (russians tried and failed). So, two questions:

1. Does this make Concord a hoax?
2. Why were we able to build such a plane 40 years ago, but are not able to build it now?

P.S. Waspie_Dwarf,  my english is very bad ;)


#1799    DONTEATUS

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:36 PM

Here ! Here ! Well put Waspie !  Without the C.Ts and Septics what would we have to read and laugh at ? Its part fun,part sad fun most of the time we read these threads about Who did this or what can do that. Some do gain a bit of knowledge in here just by the process.
Afterall Look at me , I was a simple one cell squiggley thing once,all that DNA just waiting to bust out and impress the planet with the brain the Size of a Planet !
We all can dream,some just dream better than others.

This Forum is by far one of the best going, no If`s ands, or Butts !
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Keep it up Waspie Always enjoy your information,and post !
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Edited by DONTEATUS, 02 April 2013 - 06:38 PM.

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#1800    redsquare

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:13 PM

View Postpostbaguk, on 02 April 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

I could use exactly the same argument to prove they didn't fake it.

If the US had faked the moon landings why hasn't any other country faked sending people to the moon? Surely after the US did it every other country would want a piece of the action. So they must have done it for real.

lmfao you got me there :D