Solar System May Have Hidden Giant Planet

[Waspie_Dwarf]

Up telescope! Search begins for giant new planet

Tyche may be bigger than Jupiter and orbit at the outer edge of the solar system

If you grew up thinking there were nine planets and were shocked when Pluto was demoted five years ago, get ready for another surprise. There may be nine after all, and Jupiter may not be the largest.

The hunt is on for a gas giant up to four times the mass of Jupiter thought to be lurking in the outer Oort Cloud, the most remote region of the solar system. The orbit of Tyche (pronounced ty-kee), would be 15,000 times farther from the Sun than the Earth's, and 375 times farther than Pluto's, which is why it hasn't been seen so far.

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[Jacques Terreur]

wow, that would be a truly amazing find! I just hope the IAU sticks with the name and they don't call it "NIBIRU"

[Waspie_Dwarf]

wow, that would be a truly amazing find! I just hope the IAU sticks with the name and they don't call it "NIBIRU"

I can guarantee that the one name they WON'T give it will be Nibiru.

[Gary Meadows]

I came in wondering how long it would be until someone said Nibiru.

Wow.

Cool story otherwise.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

I came in wondering how long it would be until someone said Nibiru.

Well so far it has only been mentioned in jest, but it is only a matter of time before someone tries to claim that the (so far totally hypothetical) Tyche is (the totally non-existent ) Nibiru, despite the fact that they have totally different (hypothetical) orbits.

[kannin]

planet x nonsense, the ones that believe it have to be joking somewhat, isnt there a story that life came to earth because nibiru crashed into this planet? really! ha! id rather hear spoon fed bull sh**** from martha stewart saying she never frauded anything.

amazing post though like jaques said that would be an extreamly amazing find

[Spacenut56]

I wonder if it may be a rogue planet?

[Waspie_Dwarf]

I wonder if it may be a rogue planet?

A rogue planet is generally consider to be a planet not in orbit around a star so, by definition, if Tyche exists it is not a rogue planet.

However the article says this:

Whether it would become the new ninth planet would be decided by the International Astronomical Union (IAU). The main argument against is that Tyche probably formed around another star and was later captured by the Sun's gravitational field.

So it may well have been a rogue planet in the past. Alternatively it may have been in orbit around another star which came close to the sun and was captured during that close encounter, if that is the case then it was never a rogue planet.

One thing is for sure, if it exists Tyche will be eagerly studied by astronomers for generations to come.

[kannin]

so interesting

[ninjadude]

That article is from two years ago. The data most likely analyzed by now as they were waiting for April 2011. I seriously doubt there will be any massive planet found.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

That article is from two years ago.

So it was. I totally missed that. It cropped up somewhere else today and I didn't notice that it was an old story.

Edited to add:

In fact there is a two year old topic on Tyche here: Search begins for giant new planet

I must be getting old, I generally remember if a subject has already been posted.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Waspie_Dwarf

[sepulchrave]

I also doubt there will be any planet found, but judging by the WISE site they are still analyzing the data and finding new things.

For example, just a few months ago they discovered a new star system only 6.5 light years from Earth.

So it is not impossible that a cold gas giant could still be hiding in the Oort cloud.

[Parsec]

Oh, if true this is huge (in all the senses)!

I ask for Waspie and Sepulchrave advice: if Tychee exists, being a giant gas so far from the Sun, which conditions could we find on its surface? I mean, being so big it's probably closer to a star than to a planet (it could even be a brown dwarf), so probably it could have internal heat, but being so far from the Sun, it could have very low temperatures on its surface (Pluto is on average 40 Kelvin). It could be similar to Neptune, but could it be possible that, given the conditions, it could be non gaseous but solid? Could it be theoretically possible that it could have a solid inner core, surrounded by a thick atmosphere?

Wow, thinking it could have originated in another star system brings so many variables that's mind blogging! Who knows how old is it, it could be older than our Sun (and that's very probable, if it had to travel through deep space)!

[Jacques Terreur]

Who knows how old is it, it could be older than our Sun (and that's very probable, if it had to travel through deep space)!

sorry guys,i am really interested in astronomy & space, but my knowledge is next to nothing. Is it really possible what i took out of this post? That massive planets break out of their star system and fly through deep space until some other star's gravity "catches" them??

[Waspie_Dwarf]

Oh, if true this is huge (in all the senses)!

I ask for Waspie and Sepulchrave advice: if Tychee exists, being a giant gas so far from the Sun, which conditions could we find on its surface?

Being a gas giant it wont have a solid surface. The article says they expect it to look much like Jupiter and have a temperature of about -73^oC, which is considerably warmer than Pluto.

I mean, being so big it's probably closer to a star than to a planet (it could even be a brown dwarf),

No, it's most definitely a planet. Even brown dwarfs are not considered true stars, but are sub-stars. Brown dwarfs are considerably hotter than planets, typically having a surface temperature temperature of 1000 K. They also have a minimum mass of around 13x Jupiter. If Tyche exists it is too cold and too small to be anything other than a planet.

so probably it could have internal heat,

By internal heat I assume you mean it's surface temperature is driven by internal heat rather than from the Sun (after all the Earth has internal heat). That is almost certain. Jupiter Saturn and Neptune all generate more heat than they receive from the Sun.

but being so far from the Sun, it could have very low temperatures on its surface (Pluto is on average 40 Kelvin).

It could be similar to Neptune, but could it be possible that, given the conditions, it could be non gaseous but solid?

No, it wouldn't be a gas giant then.

Could it be theoretically possible that it could have a solid inner core, surrounded by a thick atmosphere?

In planets as large as Jupiter the pressure is so great at the centre that Hydrogen becomes solid. This is likely with Tyche even if it doesn't have a rocky core.

Wow, thinking it could have originated in another star system brings so many variables that's mind blogging! Who knows how old is it, it could be older than our Sun (and that's very probable, if it had to travel through deep space)!

It's more likely to have been "stolen" from another star but it could still be older than the sun.

Parsec, virtually all of the answers I have given you are in the original article I linked to. Why not read that?

[Waspie_Dwarf]

sorry guys,i am really interested in astronomy & space, but my knowledge is next to nothing. Is it really possible what i took out of this post? That massive planets break out of their star system and fly through deep space until some other star's gravity "catches" them??

There are planets known as rogue planets which are not in orbit around a star, but instead wander through interstellar space. Some of these may have formed on their own (i.e. never been in orbit around a star) but most were probably ejected from a star system.

This is not the only way that a planet can end up around another star. Stars move independently to each other. Sometimes they will come close to another star. It is possible for a distant planet to be ripped from it's orbit and end up orbiting the other star.

[Jacques Terreur]

thx, nice to come here and actually LEARN something...

[supervike]

So it was. I totally missed that. It cropped up somewhere else today and I didn't notice that it was an old story.

Edited to add:

In fact there is a two year old topic on Tyche here: Search begins for giant new planet

I must be getting old, I generally remember if a subject has already been posted.

Oh good. when I read the name Tyche, I could have sworn I heard about this before.

It's all coming back to me now....

[flbrnt]

Interesting. I believe it was Herschel who predicted a ninth planet based on perturbations in the orbit of Neptune. Clyde Tombaugh was searching for it and discovered Pluto, assuming that Pluto was planet nine but Pluto was too small to account for the perturbations.

[sepulchrave]

Interesting. I believe it was Herschel who predicted a ninth planet based on perturbations in the orbit of Neptune.

Nope. Herschel discovered Uranus. Based on further analysis of Uranus' orbit led Bouvard to propose the existence of an 8th planet, leading le Verrier (and possibly Adams, depending how generous you are with awarding credit for simultaneous discovery) to discover Neptune.

After even further analysis of Uranus' orbit, Lowell believed that a 9th planet existed. As you mention, Pluto was discovered but found to be too small to provide the necessary gravitational field.

Ultimately, further astronomical research - in particular the flight of Voyager 2 - corrected some of the initial mistakes made with Neptune's orbit and mass and basically resolved all the discrepancies with Uranus' orbit.

This is one of the reasons why a fifth large gas giant - if it exists - must have an extremely distant orbit, since the orbital trajectories of all the known planets (and dwarf planets) are adequately explained.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

Ultimately, further astronomical research - in particular the flight of Voyager 2 - corrected some of the initial mistakes made with Neptune's orbit and mass and basically resolved all the discrepancies with Uranus' orbit.

It's also worth noting that an extensive search was made for a planet (provisionally named Vulcan) that le Verrier hypothesised orbited between Mercury and the Sun. Newtonian physics could not explain particularities in Mercury's orbit.

When Einstein's General Relativity was applied to Mercury's orbit the need for Vulcan disappeared.

[emberdawn]

thx, nice to come here and actually LEARN something...

I agree. Thank you for the info. Though the story is a couple years old its new to me.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Unbeliveble. I thought that we explored our solar system.

[kannin]

interesting

[Parsec]

Parsec, virtually all of the answers I have given you are in the original article I linked to. Why not read that?

Waspie, thank you for your answers. I did read the article, but, maybe as I should have stated more clearly in my post, I wanted to speculate about the - possible - finding.

I know researchers said it should look like Jupiter and with a temperature on surface of -73° C, but it's not said. We don't even know if it really exists!

The variables are many, it could be very different from what they expect. We still don't even know exactly how's Earth interior, we don't know for sure how our Moon formed, but we are so sure on how a possible new still undiscovered planet lurking at the boundary of our Solar System looks like? Come on!

Researchers had fantasy, why don't we use it too?

That's why I've written my post: I wanted to think about the most extreme (and unprobable, I know) possibilities.

Being a gas giant it wont have a solid surface.

No, it wouldn't be a gas giant then.

What I meant was, given some extraordinary circumstances, could it be possible that a giant gas could not be so gaseous after all? For a weird (or unique) balance between inner heat, cosmic freeze, own pressure, could it be without rocky elements, but still solid? And not only the inner core, but at least a big part of the planet?

It's more likely to have been "stolen" from another star but it could still be older than the sun.

I don't understand your punctualization, to me it's a bit pointless and redundant. Why did you have to point that out?

I didn't write the reason why, I only wrote that if it originated in another star system, it could be possible that's even older than our Sun, and I added that it takes a long way to come here, even if it came from Proxima Centaury. The reason is another kettle of fish. Wether it's a rougue planet or a "stolen" one, it had to travel a lot.

And more important, if it really didn't form in our Solar System, form me it's even more exiting!

Think about it: a planet older tha our Sun formed in another star system, here "close" to us!

And if, like the researcher said in the article, it has moons, who knows if they came all along with it (so rocky moons maybe older than our Sun), rather than being gathered once it arrived here!

Maybe not for you, but to me it's mind boggling!