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#16    Idano

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:28 AM

View Postacidhead, on 04 October 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

get a grip Corp... it's just a reality show... the Presidential Reality Show... lol
Oh sadly so true.  The media kept talking about "Zingers" and winners and losers, this isn't two 10 year olds fighting in the school yard!  We need a debate, an exchange and discussion of NEW ideas, not rehashing sound bites! These events are so disheartening.

What could possibly go wrong?

#17    questionmark

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:43 AM

View PostIdano, on 04 October 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Oh sadly so true.  The media kept talking about "Zingers" and winners and losers, this isn't two 10 year olds fighting in the school yard!  We need a debate, an exchange and discussion of NEW ideas, not rehashing sound bites! These events are so disheartening.

The problem is that "new ideas" are just there where they attempt to get at people's money.

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#18    Idano

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:31 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 04 October 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

The problem is that "new ideas" are just there where they attempt to get at people's money.

Are the austerity measures as bad as we are hearing about in the news? Yikes poor greece..  But under the "It could always be worse headlines"  I live in the USA and have to wait til I'm 67 to retire, unless I fund my own retirement. As I understand it (and I could be wrong, you tell me) Greeks retire way before that?

What could possibly go wrong?

#19    Merc14

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:43 PM

View PostIdano, on 04 October 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

But under the "It could always be worse headlines"  I live in the USA and have to wait til I'm 67 to retire, unless I fund my own retirement. As I understand it (and I could be wrong, you tell me) Greeks retire way before that?

Hence the reason Greece is imploding.

I have a question, why do you feel you have a right to someone else funding your retirement?  Who pays for that, me?  Do I, in your world, have an obligation to pay for your retirement?  See, you earn retirement or you pay into it.  Social Security, the farce that it is, is funded by money you pay in while working.  If you'd like to retire at 55 then there is absolutely no law saying you can't!  You simply save enough money to quit working at 55.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#20    Idano

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:54 PM

View PostMerc14, on 04 October 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Hence the reason Greece is imploding.

I have a question, why do you feel you have a right to someone else funding your retirement?  Who pays for that, me?  Do I, in your world, have an obligation to pay for your retirement?  See, you earn retirement or you pay into it.  Social Security, the farce that it is, is funded by money you pay in while working.  If you'd like to retire at 55 then there is absolutely no law saying you can't!  You simply save enough money to quit working at 55.

I didn't say someone else had to pay for anything.  I did pay into SS with the promise of repayment with interest, and won't  receive benefits from that forced investment until I'm 67.  You are correct, there is no law that says I can't....so I retired at 52 on my own dime and Lovin it!!

What could possibly go wrong?

#21    questionmark

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:54 PM

View PostIdano, on 04 October 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Are the austerity measures as bad as we are hearing about in the news? Yikes poor greece..  But under the "It could always be worse headlines"  I live in the USA and have to wait til I'm 67 to retire, unless I fund my own retirement. As I understand it (and I could be wrong, you tell me) Greeks retire way before that?

Only if you think you can survive on 350 Euros ($454.024) a month.

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#22    Merc14

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

View PostIdano, on 04 October 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

I didn't say someone else had to pay for anything.  I did pay into SS with the promise of repayment with interest, and won't  receive benefits from that forced investment until I'm 67.  You are correct, there is no law that says I can't....so I retired at 52 on my own dime and Lovin it!!

Misunderstood, sorry and congrats on your retirement!.  Agree on Social Security being a forced investment and a bad one at that.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#23    Socio

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

View PostMerc14, on 04 October 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

The problem with your analogy is "the champ" has never had a real fight and he sucks when winging it.

Potentially bigger problem for " the champ" is there much speculation that in a way he was not "winging it" at all and still did bad;

They way he would tilt his head a bit, turn away from Romney when he spoke, looked down like he was being lectured and kind of rolled his eyes as if his mind was someplace else for a second are the exact same mannerisms you would see when having a conversation in person with someone who was also on a cellphone with an ear piece listening to someone on that phone at the same time.

Add that to some pointing out that his right ear stuck out a bit more than his left and the speculation is he had a tiny ear piece in his right ear and was getting his ques from some one else.

If so they screwed up and put it in his wrong ear, at least I think he would have had a easier time if it had been in the ear away from Romney.


#24    Merc14

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:45 PM

Bottom line on the debate, Romney took Obama for a cross country drive strapped to the roof of his car.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#25    Walter White

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:10 PM

The only thing i'm sure of after this debate is that Romney is in love with Obama.

Watch it again, whenever Obama speaks, notice how Romney stares.  That's the look of love.

Other than that, complete waste of time.





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#26    Jeremiah65

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:39 PM

Well, it went down as I completely expected it to.  Win goes to Romney.  I have a strong suspicious streak that it was scripted.  Had Obama walked all over Romney, he would have lost more ground in the polls which would lead to loss of campaign contributors....loss of media money, etc.  My first line of thinking as it went exactly as TPTB meant for it to go.

Now that being said, it appeared Obama's camp bit on the bait that Romney was banking on "zingers" to win the debate and that is not how he came out.  Obama looked unprepared, clumsy and somewhat arrogant...as if he was perturbed he had to be there and put up with this guy questioning his policies.

I hope my guy gets a shot to be on stage in one of the two remaining debates.  I'm not going to hold my breath though.  Had Gary Johnson been on stage last night, that may have drawn some fire away and in some ways, it needed to happen exactly the way it happened....scripted or not.

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#27    MissMelsWell

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:40 PM

I didn't watch it, I chose instead to spend a lovely evening at a country club with friends enjoying a delicious dinner, a gorgeous view and a spectacular sunset.

However, I do think through social media I learned something about the debate that was shocking, absolutely shocking! The people who supported Obama before the debates still support him and think he won! The people who supported Romney before the debates still support him and think he won! GASP!

And those who were undecided or don't care, still haven't decided and/or still don't care.

Pffft...

Edited by MissMelsWell, 04 October 2012 - 02:44 PM.

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#28    RavenHawk

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:45 PM

Romney didn't hit any homeruns but he racked up enough singles to win.  He was so close on several occasions to knock one out but never got full extension.  What got me was that all the commentators were making excuses for Obama.  Romney didn’t win – Obama lost.   And that's why I think even if Romney wins the next two as well, Obama is still going to win the election.  I've never seen so many brainwashed sheep voting for a hack.  Maybe this country deserves going Socialist?  For sure we haven’t been governing ourselves as our Founding Fathers intended, so why should we care?!

I see where he had to be PC about Entitlements.  But that is where Obama can attack him.  Romney needs to fully express such a complex concept to the common man.  Let’s admit it, getting rid of Entitlements is the goal but the other side of that is that this government has obligations that it will meet.  That is why those over 55 won’t see a change.  For those under 55, there are many ways to wean people off Entitlements without them losing anything.  The government should have never got into the Entitlement business in the first place.  It makes people dependent on the government rather than independent.  And it will take several generations to fully wean ourselves off.  Unfortunately, this is a long term proposition and won’t help much initially with the debt.  The only fair way to deal with the debt is across-the-board cuts.

Romney definitely needs to get more into expressing the differences on philosophies.  The difference between Socialism and Republic.

I cringed when he talked about clean coal.  I don’t see coal as our future, but we must use what works for our needs today.  Green forms are for tomorrow, they are not feasible right now.  When the government no longer has to subsidize them, then will be the time to use them.  When things like solar cels become super cheap so that every house and building can put them up left-and-right then we can replace coal as the major source of electricity.  We’re just not there yet.

I don’t think that Romney wants to get rid of Big Bird.  I think that he just wants to end the funding to PBS.  Is this something the government *NEEDS* to subsidize?  I’m sure the revenues from Sesame Street could fund PBS all on its own.  We could also get rid of the Post Office.  The internet replaces it to send email and businesses like UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. can handle packages and other special needs.

Romneycare is definitely a thorn in his side.  But as has been pointed out, Romney is for the States to handle caring for the people.  Obama is for a strong centralized government.  Our FFs tried to lead us away from this.  There needs to be a delegation of authority to where it needs to be.

Romney really stuck it to the President when he said that when he was governor that he was able to work across the aisle to get Romneycare passed.  And painfully pointed out how Obama rammed through Obamacare without support from the Republicans.  You would think that with such an important bill, that you should have bi-partisan support.  This shows that Obama can’t get it.  Especially when you come out in public saying that he will listen to any good ideas and when the Republicans present many good ideas, they get ignored.

But the Bottom line is still jobs.  After last night, which candidate leaves you with the feeling that they are capable to create jobs?  Or create the environment for jobs?


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#29    questionmark

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:54 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 04 October 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

But the Bottom line is still jobs.  After last night, which candidate leaves you with the feeling that they are capable to create jobs?  Or create the environment for jobs?

None by himself.

And no matter what, they are both not strong enough leaders to persuade the "others".

No matter who gets in, there will be problems and the road to kick the can down is at its end.

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#30    OverSword

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

My feelings about presidential debates is that if I want to watch a puppet show I'll watch Team America World Police
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