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The Girl Scout Camp Murders

girl scout murder oklahoma

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#31    regi

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 01:40 PM

I haven't come across that about Hart's defense lawyer resigning. I'd have to know the source the author used.
It's very disappointing to hear that the book is so poorly written, but it's not really surprising to me.
I've read my share of true crime books that I found sketchy on references, or the writing style was hard to follow, and/or like you said, annoying because the author continually expressed his own opinion instead of telling the facts of the story and allowing the reader to form their own impressions.


And the media...Oh, Lord. I'm not even gonna go there. I just make sure I've got enough grains of salt.
Reporting on this case has been true to form. Right off the bat, I noticed inaccuracies in reports and/or contradictory info.

I didn't notice that there were three sleeping bags in that photo. I guess I was focused on that pretrial testimony that Richard Day covered the exposed body with "part" of one of the sleeping bags (was said something like that), and that one body wasn't in a sleeping bag.
There's a lot to take in with this case, and I'm having a hard time separating fact from fiction.
The tent wasn't blood soaked. Yes, it appears that the perp(s) attempted to clean the floor with the mattress covers and towels (I guess to get rid of footprints), but I think that was an exaggeration about the amount of blood that had been there.
That OSBI agent (Larry Bowles) who spoke on that doc said that as he viewed the body of Lori Farmer that she appeared to be sleeping...that he saw no injuries.
I read one article where it stated that the medical exam showed no rape, but there was evidence presented at trial of that semen was collected from all three bodies!


I slowed down on my research, I'm trying to digest what I've learned up to this point.
I thought long about the case last night... about the truly bizarre circumstances of the crime itself, and tried to wrap my head around how events unfolded.
In the following, I'm gonna refer to one perp, just for simplicity.
The perp targeted children in a place where there was also vulnerable young women. (I believe the counselors were in their late teens.) That seems to indicate that the perp was either young himself, or (obviously) was a pedophile. I know that pedophile's target places where children would be, and they also find work where children would be.
It's hard to imagine one perp accomplishing all that is said to have occurred, and also, the stealing of various items throughout the camp. To start with, that doesn't sound like the behavior of a pedophile because that's not his primary purpose.
And why would he risk detection burglarizing the camp, and also take the time to do it? If there was blood on the towel (Kiowa counselors tent) then that had to occur AFTER the murders.
The perp left his flashlight with the bodies. Could he have not needed it by that time, and so that's why he must have inadvertently left it?

I'm trying to find precisely where the bodies were discovered in relation to the camp configuration, and I still have no notion as why the bodies were transported in the first place. I know that some aspects of a crime will defy logic, and/or will only be known by the perp, but I know there was a reason for it.

It's mind-boggling.


#32    Taun

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 04:20 PM

I agree it seems like every single source of information on this case is using different evidence and data - like they are all talking about different cases...

I'm looking for a good map of the area so I can plot out where what is supposed to have happened...

I found a discussion board that is 'working' this case and found an interesting comment: (the misspellings aren't mine - this time)

Jun 16, 2007

I have called the OSBI, and nobody will listen. I was a boy scout in troup 17 at Camp Garland when those murders occured. We had the first camp site at Camp Garland and only 1/4 mile from Camp Scott. Those girls that were murdered were in the first camp site closest to camp Garland. The first night of camp we had three boys that bragged to the entire troup that they were going to go to Camp Scott that night to get some girls. They indead went, and in the middle of the night returned and woke up allot of us arguing. One boy was crying and saying he didn't want to get into trouble, the other two boys were angry and telling him to keep his mouth shut and they won't get in any trouble. The next morning the police arrived and took all the boys 14 years old and older into the camp site building for questioning. I was only 12. Myself and about 10 other boys told our scout master about the three boys and what they said and did, but he told us to shut up and let the police do thier job.

The Mays county detectives and OSBI found a "drunk Indian" to blame this on and they don't want to be embarressed. I've even called KRMG, and emailed channel 8 and nobody wants to look into this. I gaurantee, if someone adertised to have members of boy scout troup 17 come forward, you would get over a dozen that would remember those three boys and what they did.

Those three girls and thier families deserve justice!! I ended up going to High School with two of those boys and they were some of the roughest kids at Rogers High School, class of 83. I remember thier names.


http://girlscoutmurd...63#.UF3ldNW1lqJ

While I don't think the boy scouts actually did it... perhaps they went over there for a "panty raid" and saw it happening - or came across the bodies...Of course it could be total bunk...

Edited by Taun, 22 September 2012 - 04:21 PM.


#33    Taun

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 04:36 PM

Another interesting post - that really doesn't present much in the way of new evidence but is interesting none-the-less, is from the girl that was supposed to be the 4th girl in the tent...

My name is Melanie, I am the 4th camper that was supposed to be in Kiowa that fateful night. I can only tell you what I know.

Because my birthdate is in December, they wrongfully put me in the older age group, (12-15) and the Seminole Camp Unit. I was scheduled to be moved the next day because of the storm. It was a very typical Oklahoma thunderstorm that night. Being June and the sun doesn't set until late, we all left dinner with it still light although the storms were in. I was told by my CIT that because of the storms I would be moved to Kiowa the following day when it would be easier and to stay put where I was with 4 other girls that night. (Please understand that these are above ground tents, open on all sides minus tiedowns and layed out for 4 cots, (no bunk beds) all against the edges of the tent. Because I was the young one, they were all older than me, I ended up sleeping on the floor. My best friend Maria at the times' older sister Lisa was in the tent as well and knew that the next day I would be with the kids my own age. At that age, 2 years is a huge age difference.

The storm was really one of those typical Oklahoma summer storms. We all shared one common shower area with troughlike watering areas for washing your face, brushing your teeth etc. We all went to bed, at about 10pm, my new bunkmate woke up wheezing, I sat up and said if she was ok. She said no and that she had to go to the wishing well, (the infirmary) which was down Cookie Lane. Remember we are at Girl Scout Camp. I tell her that I would go with her, it was still storming, the big raindrops that actually for a kid in the summer are nice. We got to the Wishing Well, she got her medicine and we headed back to our tent.

Nothing was out of the ordinary, no sounds other than the rain which was heavy. no flashlights, odd anything... We got back to out tent safely and went to sleep. At approximately and I say approximately because when you are 12 you don't wear a watch, especially at camp, at around 2, middle of the night for a kid, the rain stopped and a stillness rose around the camp, I woke up and had a sense that something was wrong. My mother had told me that I would have these senses because I was away from hom and would be homesick. I shrugged it off and went back to sleep.

The following morning they hurried us for a long hike, breakfast was served early and there was an air about Camp Scott that something was wrong. Being a kid, I thought the worst, some kid had broken their leg or something, (that is one of the joys of growing up in Oklahoma in the 70's...... that was the worst I could think) It was obvious that us kids new something was wrong, I said to my CIT when I was going to move over to Kiowa and all she said was "After breakfast, go on the hike with the group you are with now" So I did

We went on a long hike, I didn't see any of the girls from Kiowa that I was supposed to regrouped with that evening. I said to Lisa, I don't see any of Kiowa, and she said Oh, they are probably in Crafts. OK

When we crossed the creek, the end of the property is there and that is where the busses picked us up. They drove us back to the main entrance of Camp Scott and told us we had 5 minutes to gather our things and get back on the bus. THEY LITERALLY TOLD US NOTHING ELSE. When we got back to Tulsa off I-44 and Peoria where they dropped us off, My mother, father and my favorite teacher from Patrick Henry were there to meet me. I never knew what happened. It was only just before the FBI interview weeks later that I learned what happened.

I truly believe that Gene Leroy Hart was guilty of the murders, but I also think there was an accompolice. I know the Kiowa campground, typically 6-8 tents and the CIT tent. I know that they tent that I was supposed to go to was on the outer edge of the property but with that said, there is no way one man could have done this. This next June is the 30 year anniversary and I would love nothing better than to solve this murder, unfortunately, time, the weather and many other circumstances will prevent it.

The only selfish thing I can say is that that summer my childhood ended....



#34    Taun

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 04:54 PM

These are the only maps I could find that showed anything at all...  They really only give a general layout...

Posted Image

Posted Image

The last one doesn't even show tent 8... From what i can gather it was nearest to tent 7, but I can't prove it...

Also, I'm finding several sources that state they were in tent 7 not 8... It is so frustrating to find reliable information on this...

Edited by Taun, 22 September 2012 - 04:56 PM.


#35    Taun

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 05:14 PM

This is the location on Google Earth....

Of course 30+ years have passed so the area has changed, but if you look closely you can still see the trails and roads...

Posted Image

The coordinates are at the bottom...

Edited by Taun, 22 September 2012 - 05:17 PM.


#36    susieice

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:01 AM

Very interesting case Taun. I just spent about an hour and a half reading through all the links. Am wondering if any followup was done on the other three men reportedly seen at the camp reported in the link posted by Thomas J in post #6. Sonny James, Frank Justice and Bill Stevens do sound like interesting suspects. The last two are now deceased but the first is out of prison and still living in the area from what I can gather. There is supposedly a witness who saw all three men with Hart and saw James striking one of the sleeping bags with a hammer. This witness claimed to have seen a lot of things that occurred that night. His testimony was presented to the court to open a new Grand Jury inquiry. Anything ever come of this? See no mention of it in any of the other links.

Edited by susieice, 23 September 2012 - 07:04 AM.

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#37    DKO

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:23 AM

View PostTaun, on 17 September 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

I've been casually interested in this case for a long time - as I said earlier here in Oklahoma it's been a topic of discussion for a long time...  The books are used and I got each for about $9 dollars... (with shipping)...

And what's not to get excited about this case? It's got mystery, Native American medicine men, supernatural claims (skin walkers), politics (The American Indian Movement - AIM- got involved) the largest manhunt in state history, various death curses (The tracking dogs were cursed by a medicine man and within hours the first one died of heat stroke, and the second inexplicably got loose and ran in front of a truck on the highway...) - The chief suspect was given a curse that if he was found not guilty he would die, and within three months of the acquittal he died of a heart attack.......  And through it all no justice for those three children... (edit to add - factor in a racially charged jury - that may have acquitted him because he was 'one of theirs meaning a local football hero and a member of the tribe)

What's not to find interesting about this case?

Your summary of the incident gives me an X-Files type of feeling. Reminds me of something that might happen on one of the stand-alone episodes. :)

Back to the story though, It is very intriguing. Gonna read up the links now...

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#38    regi

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:43 PM

Re: that post about campers at Camp Garland, I don't know what to make of that info.
What strikes me is that the reported info. seems to suggest a certain amount of disorder ...the perp brought a flashlight and roll of tape and left those at the scene, the blood smear on the towel, and items taken then discarded, other items taken elsewhere (where was the concern for prints on those items...concern apparently demonstrated by the wiping up of the tent floor?)
It wouldn't be surprising that the duct tape was intentionally left behind, especially if it was stolen, but what about the flashlight?
The perp's movements certainly appeared bold; he seemed comfortable with being there...familiar with a camp setting, and maybe who was where.


Taun, I really appreciate that you posted those maps- I've been hoping to come across a detailed one- but I can't make sense of that map showing the configuration of the tents in the Kiowa unit.
(Btw, the confusion over the tent number- whether it was 7 or 8- seems to come from counting the counselor's tent as No.1. In the pretrial transcript, the tent is referred to by all as tent No. 7.)
In my mind, I have that tent essentially at the southwest of the property. Wilhite spotted the bodies out of "the corner of (her) eye" at the "fork in the road".
Anyway, it sounds like the bodies were moved to a more traveled area.
I know that could suggest that the intention was for the bodies to be easily/quickly found, but then the scene could have been even more shocking, and so, since it wasn't, and the site was at a fork in the road, I think it could be that there could have been the intention to move the bodies out of the camp altogether.

Edited by regi, 23 September 2012 - 04:00 PM.


#39    susieice

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:04 PM

Here's a good vid about the trial of Hart.



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#40    susieice

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:12 PM

Another comment from a girl who was at the Camp at the time of the murders. She recalls someone showing her a blue and yellow Nike sneaker.
http://girlscoutmurd...ce#.UF9s-bKPV8E

And a slideshow done by The Oklahoman

http://downloads.new...eshows/murders/

Another slideshow done by former scout. Look on bottom of pics. Many have a description of the site photographed. Pic 33 shows the site where the bodies were found.
http://s925.photobuc...=Picture065.jpg

Edited by susieice, 23 September 2012 - 08:37 PM.

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#41    Taun

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:25 PM

Thanks for those posts susieice...  One of them cleared up the tent numbering for me...  Indeed tent #7 is tent "#8"...  Apparently it was always called #7, but was the 8th tent because of the counselors tent - like you thought regi...


I haven't had time to read anymore of "Tent Number Eight" due to events from this weekend (I ended up actually having a date!!!! :su )...  Hopefully I will get more of it read today and tomorrow...  I'm normally a fast reader but this one is more of a 'slog your way through it book' - at least for me...

I'm still trying to find a better map, one that shows the layout of the camp with tents included so i can get more complete idea of where everything happened and the distances between things...  I've examined the Google Earth  image and compared it to the 'camp map' I put in earlier and I think I see where Kiowa was, but I'm not sure about the layout of the tents in relation to the other camps...


#42    Taun

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:36 PM

This is the area of the Kiowa Campsite..

Posted Image

I'm still not sure where the tents were inside that area and which way they were oriented... This is important (in my mind) because if they were laid out with the same orientation as in the 'detailed' map earlier - then tent 7 (8) would be closer to Quapaw site than I had thought ...


#43    susieice

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:39 PM

I've spent some time today looking to see what I could find about this case. You're welcome for the posts Taun. The more I read, the more upset I'm becoming with the camp counselors. I realize they were only 18, 19 yr old kids themselves, but didn't they communicate with anyone? They saw lights in the woods. Girls were telling them a man was looking in the tents and some said they were grabbed on their way to the latrine. I can understand they might be too afraid to investigate themselves, but weren't there other adults at the campsite they could go to? Surely these girls weren't left out there alone all night. What about this Barbara Day? She said she saw a strange car that afternoon when she went for a milk run and that it was gone when she came back. If told all this stuff, added to the threats the camp received, makes me think she might have called police, but then again, it was the first night of camp and she probably wouldn't have wanted the extra attention it may have caused. So much should have been done and wasn't.

Found this in regards to the person who claimed to witness the killings. It apparently was a camp minister. It's only a dicussion forum but the third poster is the scout who took the camp pics I linked to earlier.
http://girlscoutmurd...25#.UF-iQrKPV8E

Edited by susieice, 24 September 2012 - 12:01 AM.

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#44    Taun

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:10 AM

It seems like a lot of people are seriously discussing this case, and the more I read the murkier it gets...

As for the counselors, I've read conflicting stories of just when the girls told them about the noises and the strange man, so I'm not sure how severe criticism of them is warranted - some degree certainly - at the least Ms Wilhite seems to have either noticed something odd as it was happening (lights, movement, noises, or whatever) and really appears to have made no serious attempt to investigate or to alert other counselors... Since there appears to have been a Boy Scout camp nearby, the chance of the boys being out to cause some mischief had to have been a real consideration - not that the boys would have done anything evil like this, but that they could have always been out to spook the girls, etc...

Also, I'm really not convinced the camp received any threats... At one time I believed they had, but the more I read the less credible it seems - and it never seems to have any corroborating evidence...

As I understand it there were two or three counselors per camp site, a maintenance man (the "Ranger"), The director of the camp (Barbara Day, who apparently was not on site that night) and I would assume a cook or two... Those are the only adults that I can find references to - and the cooks - like the director probably lived nearby and would not have stayed there at night (no data on this, just my memories of my own days at scout camps)... So the girls had supervision - just not effective supervision as it tragically turned out...

Also Barbara Day's comment about noticing a strange car may (IMO) be more a case of her grasping for any clues she could after the fact...  The area around the camp is the home to many very rural people, and hunting, fishing, hiking, etc are very common pastimes in that area... I think it may have been a coincidence - though of course I could be wrong...


#45    susieice

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:41 AM

I am stunned that there were no adults other than the teenage counselors supervising and patrolling onsite the first night of a girl scout camp, with over a hundred kids as young as these girls were. I don't mean to judge the counselors really, but when young girls are saying stuff like that and they see lights in the woods, I just think they should have notified a responsible adult in charge. It could have been some of the boys from the nearby camp or it could have been some of the girls sneaking out in the woods. It would be the counselors responsibility to go get them and bring them back if it's late and they should be in their tents. Wilhite should have at least just looked, but she was so young herself. I can't imagine a camp being run like this today. When my ex and I did cub scouts, there were always 10-15 adults readily available when we had campouts. Many more in larger pack or council campouts. Leaders stayed in the camping area with their dens and troops, along with parents. That was in the mid to late 80's. The one girl I posted in #40 said she and one of the girls from her tent went to see the nurse about 10PM. I wonder if the nurse stayed onsite. Has anyone else found another reference to the sneaker this girl was shown? Or where it came from that officials would question her about it?
I suppose the car seen earlier in the day could have been anyone. This camp wasn't totally isolated from the real world, so it may have belonged to a neighbor or someone fishing in the creek.

Here's a profile I didn't see in the link posted earlier so I'll post it here.
http://www.girlscout...AL_PROFILE.html

This is an article from Fox News in 2008. DNA testing was inconclusive.
http://www.foxnews.c...,371005,00.html

This link explains the location of the tent and that it was one of few that didn't have a counselor sleeping in it. It's guessed that the perb must have known this.
http://missing87975....ml#.UF_OfLKPV8E

I get the feeling we haven't found half the stuff out there regarding this case. It'll help to find out what those books say.  Now I'm all interested in it.

Edited by susieice, 24 September 2012 - 03:12 AM.

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