How To Calculate The Orbit Of Niribu

[NatureBoff]

Based on the giant comet fly-by which caused uplift, earthquakes and liquefied mud to entomb the 'Berezovka mammoths' averages out at a date of around 41,000 B.P. If the first chinese observation of a huge comet event in 1,150 B.C is assumed to be Niribu, then one can calculate that given the rough figure of 3,600 years orbit, a more accurate figure of 3622 years is attained. The next fly-by would be due in 3622-1150 or the year 2472, 460 years time. Phew! Niribu

[JonathanVonErich]

Heu....what ??

[Agent. Mulder]

Based on the giant comet fly-by which caused uplift, earthquakes and liquefied mud to entomb the 'Berezovka mammoths' averages out at a date of around 41,000 B.P. If the first chinese observation of a huge comet event in 1,150 B.C is assumed to be Niribu, then one can calculate that given the rough figure of 3,600 years orbit, a more accurate figure of 3622 years is attained. The next fly-by would be due in 3622-1150 or the year 2472, 460 years time. Phew! Niribu

yeah, a lot of things can be calculated on nothing more than Assumptions.

but its hard to calculate the orbit of fictional objects.

[Pauly Dangerously]

Aww man, I was hoping it would happen before the next Twilight movie came out. I can't take much more of this stuff. I welcome the Apocolypse at this point.

[Agent. Mulder]

Aww man, I was hoping it would happen before the next Twilight movie came out. I can't take much more of this stuff. I welcome the Apocolypse at this point.

yeah. id rather have it kill me, than having this stuff keep up.

[sepulchrave]

Based on the giant comet fly-by which caused uplift, earthquakes and liquefied mud to entomb the 'Berezovka mammoths' averages out at a date of around 41,000 B.P. If the first chinese observation of a huge comet event in 1,150 B.C is assumed to be Niribu, then one can calculate that given the rough figure of 3,600 years orbit, a more accurate figure of 3622 years is attained. The next fly-by would be due in 3622-1150 or the year 2472, 460 years time. Phew! Niribu

Great post! I particularly enjoy the following aspects:

1. You associate two historical events with Nibiru, based on pure speculation (obviously the comet observed by the Chinese did not explode the world).
   
2. You then use the rather arbitrary choice of 3600 years for the orbit of Nibiru (I believe Sitchin uses 3750 years, but no matter).
   
3. You then `refine' the choice to 3622 years, using an erroneous combination of the two aforementioned historical events (41 000 B.P is ~ 39 000 B.C., or ~37 840 years prior to 1150 B.C. - or ~10.4 comet rotations. I suspect you meant 41 000 B.C. - but it is hard to tell since my brief search for Beresovka mammoths indicate that 10 000 B.P. is a better date).
   

But I am not one to let dubious deduction stand in the way of science. I therefore, with the help of my good friend Kepler, will point out the possible locations for Nibiru based on the following:

• An orbital period of 3622 years.
  
• An orbit that intersects with the Earth's at some point.
  

(I will give distances in terms of astronomical units [AU] - that is the average distance between the Earth and the Sun. All lengths of time will be given in years.)

Since Nibiru, if it exists, would be part of our solar system, and has an orbital period of 3622 years, it therefore has a semi-major axis of a = 235.7 AU (see Kepler's 3rd law).

I assume that Nibiru must have an extremely elliptical orbit, otherwise we would have spotted it by now¹. There are 2 extreme options for Nibiru's orbit:

1. Nibiru crosses Earth's orbit at its closest point to the Sun - i.e. the perihelion.
   
2. Nibiru crosses Earth's orbit when it is 90^o from its perihelion (polar coordinates, Sun at the origin) - i.e. the semi-latus rectum.
   

For the former case, the orbit of Nibiru is in plane with all the other planets.

Crunching the numbers (see the above wiki page for the formulas) we have an eccentricity of e = 0.995758. Highly elliptical! (Note the maximum e = 1.0, and e = 0 is a circle.)

We also have a semi-minor axis of b = 21.7 AU, and a semi-latus rectum of p = 2.0 AU.

For the latter case, the orbit of Nibiru is perpendicular with Earth's. This is a very strange orbit, but anytime Nibiru is discussed strange people seem to be around - so perhaps it makes a twisted kind of sense.

Crunching the numbers we have an eccentricity of e = 0.997877. Even more elliptical!

We also have a semi-minor axis of b = 15.4 AU, and a semi-latus rectum of p = 1.0 AU (obviously).

But wait, there is more! Since we ``know'' that Nibiru last buzzed past us in 1150 B.C, or ~ 3150 years ago, we can figure out exactly where it is in each case! And we can easily extrapolate to figure out where Nibiru would be if it had an orbit anywhere between the two extremes presented above.

For the first case, we find that Nibiru is 286.9 AU from it's future collision point with Earth, and the angle between that point, the sun, and Nibiru is 175.8 degrees.

For the second case, we find that Nibiru is 287.4 AU from it's future collision point with Earth, and the angle between that point, the sun, and Nibiru is 87.0 degrees.

Let's say that Nibiru will still collide with Earth on December 21st (I have no idea why we would assume that, but why not), just in 2472.

Now it is almost a month until December 21st, and let's assume that the always ends up in the same spot at the same time each year (i.e. precession of the equinoxes, etc. is not significant). Let us also assume that the Earth's orbit is circular. Both these assumptions are pretty good (especially compared to bizarre assumptions about Nibiru and Mayan prophecies).

In the first case, to find Nibiru we should point our telescopes 34.2 degrees east from the Sun at the Equator at 12 noon.

In the second case, we should point our telescopes 32.9 degrees north (or south) from the Sun at the Equator at 12 noon.

To exhaustively search for this planet we should scan the quasi-half circle made by smoothly connecting the three points, 32.9 north of the Sun, 34.2 east of the Sun, and 32.9 south of the Sun.

I'm sure the folks at NASA will be pleased to know what part of the sky they need to black out to keep the public misinformed!

-----------------------

1. Unless it doesn't exist. But that is no fun!

[TheSearcher]

Actually guys, you ought to have read the article he links to. Said article was written by NASA astronomer David Morrison, a NASA astrobiologist and expert scientist for NASA's "ask an astrobiologist" website. And in itself is not a bad one. Debunks nibiru in so many ways.

Smugfish, I don't know where you got your numbers though, cause they seem a bit arbitrary. could you explain on how you came to them? thanks.

[NatureBoff]

Great post! I particularly enjoy the following aspects:

1. You associate two historical events with Nibiru, based on pure speculation (obviously the comet observed by the Chinese did not explode the world).
   
2. You then use the rather arbitrary choice of 3600 years for the orbit of Nibiru (I believe Sitchin uses 3750 years, but no matter).
   
3. You then `refine' the choice to 3622 years, using an erroneous combination of the two aforementioned historical events (41 000 B.P is ~ 39 000 B.C., or ~37 840 years prior to 1150 B.C. - or ~10.4 comet rotations. I suspect you meant 41 000 B.C. - but it is hard to tell since my brief search for Beresovka mammoths indicate that 10 000 B.P. is a better date).
   

But I am not one to let dubious deduction stand in the way of science. I therefore, with the help of my good friend Kepler, will point out the possible locations for Nibiru based on the following:

• An orbital period of 3622 years.
  
• An orbit that intersects with the Earth's at some point.
  

(I will give distances in terms of astronomical units [AU] - that is the average distance between the Earth and the Sun. All lengths of time will be given in years.)

Since Nibiru, if it exists, would be part of our solar system, and has an orbital period of 3622 years, it therefore has a semi-major axis of a = 235.7 AU (see Kepler's 3rd law).

I assume that Nibiru must have an extremely elliptical orbit, otherwise we would have spotted it by now¹. There are 2 extreme options for Nibiru's orbit:

1. Nibiru crosses Earth's orbit at its closest point to the Sun - i.e. the perihelion.
   
2. Nibiru crosses Earth's orbit when it is 90^o from its perihelion (polar coordinates, Sun at the origin) - i.e. the semi-latus rectum.
   

For the former case, the orbit of Nibiru is in plane with all the other planets.

Crunching the numbers (see the above wiki page for the formulas) we have an eccentricity of e = 0.995758. Highly elliptical! (Note the maximum e = 1.0, and e = 0 is a circle.)

We also have a semi-minor axis of b = 21.7 AU, and a semi-latus rectum of p = 2.0 AU.

For the latter case, the orbit of Nibiru is perpendicular with Earth's. This is a very strange orbit, but anytime Nibiru is discussed strange people seem to be around - so perhaps it makes a twisted kind of sense.

Crunching the numbers we have an eccentricity of e = 0.997877. Even more elliptical!

We also have a semi-minor axis of b = 15.4 AU, and a semi-latus rectum of p = 1.0 AU (obviously).

But wait, there is more! Since we ``know'' that Nibiru last buzzed past us in 1150 B.C, or ~ 3150 years ago, we can figure out exactly where it is in each case! And we can easily extrapolate to figure out where Nibiru would be if it had an orbit anywhere between the two extremes presented above.

For the first case, we find that Nibiru is 286.9 AU from it's future collision point with Earth, and the angle between that point, the sun, and Nibiru is 175.8 degrees.

For the second case, we find that Nibiru is 287.4 AU from it's future collision point with Earth, and the angle between that point, the sun, and Nibiru is 87.0 degrees.

Let's say that Nibiru will still collide with Earth on December 21st (I have no idea why we would assume that, but why not), just in 2472.

Now it is almost a month until December 21st, and let's assume that the always ends up in the same spot at the same time each year (i.e. precession of the equinoxes, etc. is not significant). Let us also assume that the Earth's orbit is circular. Both these assumptions are pretty good (especially compared to bizarre assumptions about Nibiru and Mayan prophecies).

In the first case, to find Nibiru we should point our telescopes 34.2 degrees east from the Sun at the Equator at 12 noon.

In the second case, we should point our telescopes 32.9 degrees north (or south) from the Sun at the Equator at 12 noon.

To exhaustively search for this planet we should scan the quasi-half circle made by smoothly connecting the three points, 32.9 north of the Sun, 34.2 east of the Sun, and 32.9 south of the Sun.

I'm sure the folks at NASA will be pleased to know what part of the sky they need to black out to keep the public misinformed!

-----------------------

1. Unless it doesn't exist. But that is no fun!

I tip my hat. Nice post.

[NatureBoff]

Actually guys, you ought to have read the article he links to. Said article was written by NASA astronomer David Morrison, a NASA astrobiologist and expert scientist for NASA's "ask an astrobiologist" website. And in itself is not a bad one. Debunks nibiru in so many ways.

Smugfish, I don't know where you got your numbers though, cause they seem a bit arbitrary. could you explain on how you came to them? thanks.

I have followed and researched the mammoth finds. I have an associate who is an in-the-field mammoth archaeologist. My intuition when looking at the figures in all falls close to 41,000 BP. I made a mistake earlier! 1,150 BC equals 3160 BP, take this away from 41,000 gives the time interval for 11 cycles of the approx 3600 year orbit. 37840 divided by 11 gives 3440 year period. Next event 3440-1150 equals 2290 or 280 years time!

[sepulchrave]

37840 divided by 11 gives 3440 year period.

On the other hand, 37840 divided by 10 gives us a 3784 year period! And 37840 divided by 8 gives us a 4730 year period, which is even better! Or how about 37840 divided by 5, which gives us a 7568 year period?

Unfortunately 37840 divided by 16 gives us a 2365 year period - which means the world was destroyed 794 years ago.

In conclusion, large, round integers often have many even divisors.

-------------------

Don't worry, Smugfish, I saved the spreadsheet I used for the orbital calculations in my post above.

If you can finally decide what the orbital period is, and when the last time Nibiru buzzed by us, I will tell you where in the sky to look for it.

Edited November 26, 2009 by sepulchrave

[KennyB]

sepulchrave, I believe Sitchin states that Nibiru never crosses Earth's orbit. It crosses between the orbits of Jupiter and Mars, thru the Asteroid Belt. This means it never collides with Earth. Won't this effect your calculations? KennyB

[sepulchrave]

sepulchrave, I believe Sitchin states that Nibiru never crosses Earth's orbit. It crosses between the orbits of Jupiter and Mars, thru the Asteroid Belt. This means it never collides with Earth. Won't this effect your calculations? KennyB

Yes it would. I assumed it would cross Earth's orbit to inflict maximum hysteria.

If you tell me:

1. The closest Nibiru comes to the Sun,
   
2. The length of a year on Nibiru, and
   
3. The date on Earth when Nibiru is closest to the Sun (either most recent past or future event),
   

I can tell you where to look for it.

Although frankly, if this planet-of-dubious-existence doesn't actually collide with Earth, what is all the fuss about?

[KennyB]

sepulchrave, I can't answer either of those questions. The books I read by Sitchin were from the Internet and had a lot of that kind of information removed to make them less boring to read. Possibly, Qoais could help you there. Now bear with me on this. I think Nibiru is a brown Dwarf star, about 5 times the size of Jupiter, with 15 times the gravity. That kind of gravity in the inner solar system could very easily affect the Earth. It would make a difference as to where the Earth was in it's orbit. If it was on the other side of the sun from Niriru, it would be less affected than if it was on the same side. Whichever, tho, it will disturb some of the asteroids in the belt and likely cause them to impact the Earth. At least, this is my understanding. KennyB

[KennyB]

sepulchrave, The length of a year on Nibiru is appx. 3600 Earth years. KB

[TheSearcher]

sepulchrave, I can't answer either of those questions. The books I read by Sitchin were from the Internet and had a lot of that kind of information removed to make them less boring to read. Possibly, Qoais could help you there. Now bear with me on this. I think Nibiru is a brown Dwarf star, about 5 times the size of Jupiter, with 15 times the gravity. That kind of gravity in the inner solar system could very easily affect the Earth. It would make a difference as to where the Earth was in it's orbit. If it was on the other side of the sun from Niriru, it would be less affected than if it was on the same side. Whichever, tho, it will disturb some of the asteroids in the belt and likely cause them to impact the Earth. At least, this is my understanding. KennyB

A brown dwarf star, with 15 times the gravity of Jupiter, would already be influencing the outer elements of the solar system, if it is to be here in 2012. The effect would already be visible, and so would the brown dwarf star for that matter. A brown dwarf star is not a particularly small object, 5 times the size of Jupiter, like you say.

[NatureBoff]

On the other hand, 37840 divided by 10 gives us a 3784 year period! And 37840 divided by 8 gives us a 4730 year period, which is even better! Or how about 37840 divided by 5, which gives us a 7568 year period?

Unfortunately 37840 divided by 16 gives us a 2365 year period - which means the world was destroyed 794 years ago.

In conclusion, large, round integers often have many even divisors.

-------------------

Don't worry, Smugfish, I saved the spreadsheet I used for the orbital calculations in my post above.

If you can finally decide what the orbital period is, and when the last time Nibiru buzzed by us, I will tell you where in the sky to look for it.

You don't understand my figures? I made yet another mistake, it was 1,140 years B.C and was made by the babylonians!

1. Assuming that the Babylonian observation of a "scorpion tailed" comet in 3150 BP (before present, i.e. 1140+2010=3150) is the same object which near-missed the earth 41,000 BP

2. Assuming that Sitchin's calculations of Niribu orbit of around 3,600 years is correct, then this makes 11 cycles in a 41,000-3150=37850 year time interval.

3. A more accurate figure can then be calculated for the period i.e. 37850/11 = 3441 years and is 291 years away (3441-1140=2301) for the nexy fly-by.

btw I don't believe that it will be the end of the world or any impact of any kind, just a fly-by. Also flora dating gives a slightly earlier date of around 41,250 BP for the magnetic excursion event.

Is Niribu a giant comet or a captured moon? That's the next question in my mind Controversial Moon Origin Theory Rewrites History

[sepulchrave]

You don't understand my figures? I made yet another mistake, it was 1,140 years B.C and was made by the babylonians!

No, I understand your figures. I was merely trying to point out (in a slightly snarky tone, admittedly), that you are assuming Nibiru has passed Earth 11 times in 37 850 years.

Assuming Sitchin's estimate of a 3600 year period is correct (a big assumption, but so is the existence of Nibiru), then picking 11 passes gives a `refined' period of 3441 years, a -4.4% difference from the original guess. Picking 10 passes gives a `refined' period of 3785 years, or a +5.1% difference from the original guess.

I am not sure our information on Nibiru is accurate enough to decide between a period of 3441 or 3785 years (scratch that, I am positive the above `information' on Nibiru is completely inaccurate).

Of course the Earth does precess in its orbit somewhat, so even choosing a round number of passes is probably incorrect.

Is Niribu a giant comet or a captured moon? That's the next question in my mind

I can answer that question. If it is zipping around the solar system in a strange elliptical orbit it is obviously not a captured moon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I intend on making some more calculations, so let me make sure I've got my `facts' straight:

Nibiru has a highly elliptical orbit with a period of ~3600 years, it is 5 times the size of Jupiter with 15 times the gravity, its perihelion is somewhere between Mars and Jupiter, and it is currently approaching Earth from the southern hemisphere?

[NatureBoff]

No, I understand your figures. I was merely trying to point out (in a slightly snarky tone, admittedly), that you are assuming Nibiru has passed Earth 11 times in 37 850 years.

Assuming Sitchin's estimate of a 3600 year period is correct (a big assumption, but so is the existence of Nibiru), then picking 11 passes gives a `refined' period of 3441 years, a -4.4% difference from the original guess. Picking 10 passes gives a `refined' period of 3785 years, or a +5.1% difference from the original guess.

I am not sure our information on Nibiru is accurate enough to decide between a period of 3441 or 3785 years (scratch that, I am positive the above `information' on Nibiru is completely inaccurate).

Of course the Earth does precess in its orbit somewhat, so even choosing a round number of passes is probably incorrect.

I can answer that question. If it is zipping around the solar system in a strange elliptical orbit it is obviously not a captured moon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I intend on making some more calculations, so let me make sure I've got my `facts' straight:

Nibiru has a highly elliptical orbit with a period of ~3600 years, it is 5 times the size of Jupiter with 15 times the gravity, its perihelion is somewhere between Mars and Jupiter, and it is currently approaching Earth from the southern hemisphere?

Fair enough, I take your point about the number of cycles. I've just looked at Sitchin's site. Oh dear, what a load of baloney! I didn't realise he was talking about aliens and stuff! I think my simpler explanation is better. I'm just concentrating on the evidence for a massive body fly-by 41,250 years ago. There's plenty of circumstantial evidence.

[Hugh]

Here's a handy NASA site for finding the impact risk of known Earth impact events:

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/risk/

[Agent. Mulder]

sepulchrave, I can't answer either of those questions. The books I read by Sitchin were from the Internet and had a lot of that kind of information removed to make them less boring to read. Possibly, Qoais could help you there. Now bear with me on this. I think Nibiru is a brown Dwarf star, about 5 times the size of Jupiter, with 15 times the gravity. That kind of gravity in the inner solar system could very easily affect the Earth. It would make a difference as to where the Earth was in it's orbit. If it was on the other side of the sun from Niriru, it would be less affected than if it was on the same side. Whichever, tho, it will disturb some of the asteroids in the belt and likely cause them to impact the Earth. At least, this is my understanding. KennyB

yet we cannot see this star/planet/fiction or feel the effects.....

[NatureBoff]

I am not sure our information on Nibiru is accurate enough to decide between a period of 3441 or 3785 years (scratch that, I am positive the above `information' on Nibiru is completely inaccurate).

I can answer that question. If it is zipping around the solar system in a strange elliptical orbit it is obviously not a captured moon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I intend on making some more calculations, so let me make sure I've got my `facts' straight:

Nibiru has a highly elliptical orbit with a period of ~3600 years, it is 5 times the size of Jupiter with 15 times the gravity, its perihelion is somewhere between Mars and Jupiter, and it is currently approaching Earth from the southern hemisphere?

The 'captured moon' idea should read 'nearly-captured moon' idea. I think that simulations could show that a moon of Mercury could be almost caught, but escapes into a highly elliptical heliocentric orbit. That's my best guess at present.

How do you get Nibiru to be so big? Do you have any circumstantial evidence?

btw I think that the ice core data reading of just over 40,000 BP is the best figure for the geomagnetic excursion event. Timing of abrupt climate change: A precise clock. Notice how DO event 9 is mysteriously absent at 40,000 BP!

Edit - Now I've just read this article Pluto 2015: Journey to the Rim of the Solar System it could easily be a Kuiper belt object.

And after conducting the first in-depth, close-up study of Pluto and its moon Charon, the unmanned spaceship will venture even further into the Kuiper Belt, a vast strip of icy objects that sit just outside of Neptune’s orbit, roughly 50 astronomical units from the Sun.

“When Pluto was first discovered in 1930, it just looked like an oddball,” Stern said. “We had the four rocky, terrestrial planets and the four big gas giants, and then we had this odd thing Pluto.”

But with the discovery of the Kuiper Belt in the 1990s, scientists discovered that the small, icy orb was hardly unique. “We found out that there are a lot of Plutos,” Stern said. “In fact, it’s the dominant class of planets in the solar system

Edited November 28, 2009 by Smugfish

[sepulchrave]

How do you get Nibiru to be so big? Do you have any circumstantial evidence?

Well for one thing, I do not believe in the existence of Nibiru, at least in the manner it is described by Sitchin.

I believe it is possible for the Sun to have a distant brown-dwarf companion, but I believe that the available evidence suggests that this is not the case.

However I am a scientist, and I can, on occasion, `do the math'. Since people who believe in Nibiru often believe that there is a `world-wide conspiracy' to cover up its existence, I felt that calculating what the actual orbit of this planet would be, if it existed, would give some of these believers an opportunity to buy a telescope and start searching on their own.

There is (as far as I know), absolutely zero evidence that Nibiru is 5 times the size and has 15 times the gravity of Jupiter, has an orbital period of ~3600 years, and has a perihelion between Mars and the asteroid belt. However according to KennyB, that is what Sitchin says about Nibiru (apologies to both KennyB and Sitchin if I have misinterpreted them).

Regardless of whether or not Nibiru exists, the information above can still be used to estimate some quantitative orbital characteristics, and at least narrow down the regions of the sky where this hypothetical planet/star/comet/whatever could be.

[TheSearcher]

Well for one thing, I do not believe in the existence of Nibiru, at least in the manner it is described by Sitchin.

I believe it is possible for the Sun to have a distant brown-dwarf companion, but I believe that the available evidence suggests that this is not the case.

However I am a scientist, and I can, on occasion, `do the math'. Since people who believe in Nibiru often believe that there is a `world-wide conspiracy' to cover up its existence, I felt that calculating what the actual orbit of this planet would be, if it existed, would give some of these believers an opportunity to buy a telescope and start searching on their own.

There is (as far as I know), absolutely zero evidence that Nibiru is 5 times the size and has 15 times the gravity of Jupiter, has an orbital period of ~3600 years, and has a perihelion between Mars and the asteroid belt. However according to KennyB, that is what Sitchin says about Nibiru (apologies to both KennyB and Sitchin if I have misinterpreted them).

Regardless of whether or not Nibiru exists, the information above can still be used to estimate some quantitative orbital characteristics, and at least narrow down the regions of the sky where this hypothetical planet/star/comet/whatever could be.

And a nice math it is And then there is the fact that a brown dwarf star, with 15 times the gravity of Jupiter, should already be influencing the outer elements of the solar system (if it is the be here in 2012). The effect would be noticeable, I think.

[NatureBoff]

Well for one thing, I do not believe in the existence of Nibiru, at least in the manner it is described by Sitchin.

I believe it is possible for the Sun to have a distant brown-dwarf companion, but I believe that the available evidence suggests that this is not the case.

However I am a scientist, and I can, on occasion, `do the math'. Since people who believe in Nibiru often believe that there is a `world-wide conspiracy' to cover up its existence, I felt that calculating what the actual orbit of this planet would be, if it existed, would give some of these believers an opportunity to buy a telescope and start searching on their own.

There is (as far as I know), absolutely zero evidence that Nibiru is 5 times the size and has 15 times the gravity of Jupiter, has an orbital period of ~3600 years, and has a perihelion between Mars and the asteroid belt. However according to KennyB, that is what Sitchin says about Nibiru (apologies to both KennyB and Sitchin if I have misinterpreted them).

Regardless of whether or not Nibiru exists, the information above can still be used to estimate some quantitative orbital characteristics, and at least narrow down the regions of the sky where this hypothetical planet/star/comet/whatever could be.

Oh, okay, I got confused before. So what do you think about the idea of a massive body near miss causing a large rock tide at 40,000 BP? Forgetting everything else!

[NatureBoff]

Oh, okay, I got confused before. So what do you think about the idea of a massive body near miss causing a large rock tide at 40,000 BP? Forgetting everything else!

Also there's the question of the Aztec's and there clock keeping. Could they have recorded this 40,000 BP event and recorded it's next arrival, so keeping the legend alive? Did the original humans arrive over a temporary rock tide 6km high? Aztec Astronomy