Schoolgirls 'Joining ISIS in Syria'?

[Leonardo]

Three east London schoolgirls have flown to Turkey and there are fears they may cross the Syrian border and join the Islamic State terrorist group.

Shamima Begum, 15, Kadiza Sultana, 16, and an unnamed 15-year-old, pupils at Bethnal Green Academy, flew from Gatwick on Tuesday, during half-term.

Commander Richard Walton, of the Metropolitan Police, said he feared they were "extremely vulnerable".

The trio are friends with a fourth girl who travelled to Syria in December.

source

This type of event has happened on a number of occasions in various countries - young girls leaving family behind to become 'Jihad brides'. Recently, a couple of girls from Croatia (I think?) went to Syria, but are now apparently attempting to return having become disillusioned.

While I don't doubt there is considerable grooming of these girls being done, probably via internet sites and social media, I have to wonder how much of their 'fantasy' regarding becoming a 'Jihad bride' could be down to family influence impressing Islamic culture upon them and ingraining them with the idea that Islam is 'everything'?

I am also concerned about how minors/children can apparently up and leave the country so readily, without any checks on their reasons for doing so, or contacting of parents/responsible adults? If it's not already in place, surely such checks should be implemented to stop this form of abduction?

[Duke Wellington]

source

This type of event has happened on a number of occasions in various countries - young girls leaving family behind to become 'Jihad brides'. Recently, a couple of girls from Croatia (I think?) went to Syria, but are now apparently attempting to return having become disillusioned.

While I don't doubt there is considerable grooming of these girls being done, probably via internet sites and social media, I have to wonder how much of their 'fantasy' regarding becoming a 'Jihad bride' could be down to family influence impressing Islamic culture upon them and ingraining them with the idea that Islam is 'everything'?

I am also concerned about how minors/children can apparently up and leave the country so readily, without any checks on their reasons for doing so, or contacting of parents/responsible adults? If it's not already in place, surely such checks should be implemented to stop this form of abduction?

I think they are a little old for Jihadi Brides lol

[LV-426]

I have to wonder how much of their 'fantasy' regarding becoming a 'Jihad bride' could be down to family influence impressing Islamic culture upon them and ingraining them with the idea that Islam is 'everything'?

I just finished reading that very story before logging here. I had exactly the same thought.

[Leonardo]

I think they are a little old for Jihadi Brides lol

I'm not sure what you mean? The article stated the ages of the girls as 2 of 15 years old and 1 of 16. Why is that "too old"?

[Eldorado]

I'm not sure what you mean? The article stated the ages of the girls as 2 of 15 years old and 1 of 16. Why is that "too old"?

An allusion to the 9yr-old bride?

[Leonardo]

An allusion to the 9yr-old bride?

Well, I didn't start this thread to mock Islam, I started it to hopefully open a discussion on how this problem can be averted - possibly by proper border checks and restrictions on the ability of minors to travel abroad so freely.

[Shayde]

As has been said above, you'd think a red flag would be that of a minor without an adult leaving the country would make passport officers ask questions. But it seems we're still not "learning lessons" from previous examples. How long will it take you do ponder.

In this case, what is the UK's reaction? Do we try and get hold of these teens as long as they are in Turkey, bring them back home? Or do we go down the route of hell mend you, and leave them be? After all, it's not like the girls live in a country where they haven't been given any information at just how the gits of IS behave towards their women folk. And if this is a case of them being groomed to think a certain way, how do we prevent this from happening?

[xYlvax]

They won't be so excited about their choice if it pans out as they hope...

Let's hope that measures are taken and they are returned home.

[Ashotep]

You would think with all the horrible things ISIS has done being all over the news they wouldn't be so stupid. Who knows though maybe their parents support ISIS in their barbaric ventures.

[LV-426]

Well, I didn't start this thread to mock Islam, I started it to hopefully open a discussion on how this problem can be averted - possibly by proper border checks and restrictions on the ability of minors to travel abroad so freely.

That would probably be a case of 'closing the stable door after the horse has bolted', and could just lead to more domestic terrorism.

Of course there are many aspects to this, such as the rebellious nature of youth, but I think you already alluded to the biggest issue, which is the culture adopted, even by moderate Islamists. Take that culture, add a measure of disillusionment and rebellion, followed up with some grooming and propaganda, and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

[Ashotep]

I'm not sure what you mean? The article stated the ages of the girls as 2 of 15 years old and 1 of 16. Why is that "too old"?

It is well known that ISIS considers it okay to sleep with prepubescent girls.

[ellapenella]

It is well known that ISIS considers it okay to sleep with prepubescent girls.

It's in the koran . It's also in the Talmud .

It's horrible.

[Border Collie]

As has been said above, you'd think a red flag would be that of a minor without an adult leaving the country would make passport officers ask questions. But it seems we're still not "learning lessons" from previous examples. How long will it take you do ponder.

In this case, what is the UK's reaction? Do we try and get hold of these teens as long as they are in Turkey, bring them back home? Or do we go down the route of hell mend you, and leave them be? After all, it's not like the girls live in a country where they haven't been given any information at just how the gits of IS behave towards their women folk. And if this is a case of them being groomed to think a certain way, how do we prevent this from happening?

It isn't that simple. Go and get hold of these teens ... In Turkey? Under what powers? As far as I can gather their current whereabouts is unknown.

And regarding them being groomed to think in a certain way and "us" preventing this from happening, take a step back and think about the implications of what you are saying. "We" know what is best for them and "we" want the power to stop them doing that they want to do. The answer is, we don't force them, we show them. And if sharia law etc is what they want, we give them the freedom to go. Because personal freedom is the foundation of the West.

[Leonardo]

It isn't that simple. Go and get hold of these teens ... In Turkey? Under what powers? As far as I can gather their current whereabouts is unknown.

And regarding them being groomed to think in a certain way and "us" preventing this from happening, take a step back and think about the implications of what you are saying. "We" know what is best for them and "we" want the power to stop them doing that they want to do. The answer is, we don't force them, we show them. And if sharia law etc is what they want, we give them the freedom to go. Because personal freedom is the foundation of the West.

That's all well and good, but these are children - minors, not adults. Because they are minors we, as a society, have a responsibility to protect them and, at the very least, ensure that their parents are informed of their children's objective and given the chance to allow or deny their own children passage out of the country.

[Border Collie]

That's all well and good, but these are children - minors, not adults. Because they are minors we, as a society, have a responsibility to protect them and, at the very least, ensure that their parents are informed of their children's objective and given the chance to allow or deny their own children passage out of the country.

You are talking theory (which I don't argue with). I am talking practicality. They are gone from our shores and in another country. We don't know where they are and even if we did it would be difficult to force their return. There is legislation to stop children being moved abroad for dubious reason, but those administering it are fully stretched in trying to protect those being removed against their will and those too young to know what is happening. These were clearly voluntary moves and whilst they may well be mistaken or misinformed, to expect the police/etc to prevent their going is, I am afraid, naive. And what authority are you expecting to stop their travel and to contact their parents and establish if the parents are prepared to allow them to travel? The bureaucracy needed to administer this would be vast and prohibitively expensive, and right now simply does not exist.

The battle needs to take place earlier.

[Black Red Devil]

Not sure you can put a law in to control this. It's happened in Australia too but it appears to be happening in large numbers in the UK. Influences come from either family, friends and internet which might also indicate that deep Islamic routes are instilled into British kids from Middle Eastern, Pakistani etc. background because they either don't accept western ways of life or they're being rejected by a society that doesn't want them. There's obviously a problem of integration.

[Duke Wellington]

You are talking theory (which I don't argue with). I am talking practicality. They are gone from our shores and in another country. We don't know where they are and even if we did it would be difficult to force their return. There is legislation to stop children being moved abroad for dubious reason, but those administering it are fully stretched in trying to protect those being removed against their will and those too young to know what is happening. These were clearly voluntary moves and whilst they may well be mistaken or misinformed, to expect the police/etc to prevent their going is, I am afraid, naive. And what authority are you expecting to stop their travel and to contact their parents and establish if the parents are prepared to allow them to travel? The bureaucracy needed to administer this would be vast and prohibitively expensive, and right now simply does not exist.

The battle needs to take place earlier.

We should make it as easy for them to leave as possible but very hard to get back in.

The reason? We won't people with Islamic Fundy tendencies to go. Let them be someone else's problem. At the age of 15 they know what they're doing and want. Bye, bye, don't come back.

[Ashotep]

It's in the koran . It's also in the Talmud .

It's horrible.

Pedophiles are scumbags. I don't see how anyone can look at a child like that, sick.

[spud the mackem]

Who gave them the air fare and how did they obtain passports (being minors), without the consent of their parents who would be required to sign passport requisition forms.I reckon they have gone with the full permission of their parents.

[Ashotep]

That's all well and good, but these are children - minors, not adults. Because they are minors we, as a society, have a responsibility to protect them and, at the very least, ensure that their parents are informed of their children's objective and given the chance to allow or deny their own children passage out of the country.

The parents should have found out for themselves before they left for Turkey what their kids objective was. Talked to them about it. Now they will probably be lucky if they ever see them again, very possible they are already with ISIS. People have been murdered for trying to leave ISIS because they realized they made a mistake going there.

Can't blame the government for this. The government shouldn't be raising your kids for you.

[Ashotep]

Who gave them the air fare and how did they obtain passports (being minors), without the consent of their parents who would be required to sign passport requisition forms.I reckon they have gone with the full permission of their parents.

Never thought about that but its very possible. However couldn't the papers be forged.

[Leonardo]

The parents should have found out for themselves before they left for Turkey what their kids objective was. Talked to them about it. Now they will probably be lucky if they ever see them again, very possible they are already with ISIS. People have been murdered for trying to leave ISIS because they realized they made a mistake going there.

Can't blame the government for this. The government shouldn't be raising your kids for you.

I quite agree, but government is there to hopefully prevent people from doing stupid things by recognising the need for laws, regulations and controls. As has been suggested, both by myself and others, there may be an issue of cultural incompatibility to some degree but then why is this not an issue for all Muslims?

It is only a tiny fraction of the Muslim population we are talking about, but even one child being coerced (I consider it a form of abduction) is a problem that should be addressed. Because if the problem isn't addressed it might even grow.

[Border Collie]

Who gave them the air fare and how did they obtain passports (being minors), without the consent of their parents who would be required to sign passport requisition forms.I reckon they have gone with the full permission of their parents.

Maybe. But how many teens do you know who don't already have a passport. And you can get a flight to Turkey quite cheaply at this time of year.

[Leonardo]

More from the BBC...

Mussurut Zia, general secretary of the Muslim Women's Network, said the missing girls would not know what lay in store.

She told BBC Breakfast: "I don't think for one instant that these people, Isis [islamic State] and their likes, are going to treat these girls in the right way.

"They won't have rights, they won't be equal to their male counterparts and I don't think that they know this at the moment and they're going to be in for a real shock."

She called for more training for airport staff to ask questions of those flying to border countries such as Turkey and raised the possibility of parental consent to be given when teenagers were travelling abroad alone.

source

It seems figures of authority within the Muslim community agree that restrictions on the freedom-to-travel of unaccompanied minors could be put in place. While it might seem to be intrusive of govt to do so, I think that protecting the vulnerable is more important at this point.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Leonardo

[TheDarkerSide]

if I were a Muslim mother in Britain today, my children's passports would be in a secure place under lock and key. Especially as the whole nation is told repeatedly that many young ones are leaving the UK to join the likes of Isis.

Muslim parents must be pretty worried about their kids running off, why make it easier for them to do so. Unless of course some of the parents encourage it.