38 replies to this topic

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Zaphod222, on 19 January 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

Interesting logic there. So you assume that Yahweeh, Allah, Buddha and all the rest of the pantheon all exist at the same time?

Not exactly, my position has always been we "blind men describing an elephant" in relation to matters spiritual and deistic, so all teh belief systems are supported and supportable but they're all only describing part of a greater unknowable whole.
As for the afterlife, it makes sense that what happens to us, in light of the whole elephant business, is exactly what we'd expect to happen to us because of the cosmology we create around ourselves. I'll be having endless drinks on a beach with a library the size of Manhattan, Richard Dawkins will cease to exist, the Dali Lama will be reborn of Earth and so on and so forth.

[AsteroidX]

Or we die and cease to exist. Unfortunately there only one to find out and Im not ready for that yet so Ill continue to believe in what I believe in what I do.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

AsteroidX, on 24 January 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Or we die and cease to exist. Unfortunately there only one to find out and Im not ready for that yet so Ill continue to believe in what I believe in what I do.

Well quite.
I'm not emotionally mature enough to be prepared to accept that possibility yet, so I'll happily delude myself with thoughts of crystal blue seas and golden sands and more books then stars in the nights sky.

[Frank Merton]

We are born with an instinct to stick with the beliefs of childhood (it evolved to support group cohesion).  This is wired into us and explains why Egyptians tend to be Muslims, Thais tend to be Buddhists, Italians tend to be Catholics, and so on, in spite of all the conflicting ideas thrown at us all the time.

Therefore when I hear of someone going "back" to the old certitudes of childhood, I figure they have been under stress and sought an escape through the qualia that this instinct provides us when we revert -- joy being the main one, but also peace and comfort and resolution.

[Darkwind]

Frank Merton, on 25 January 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

We are born with an instinct to stick with the beliefs of childhood (it evolved to support group cohesion).  This is wired into us and explains why Egyptians tend to be Muslims, Thais tend to be Buddhists, Italians tend to be Catholics, and so on, in spite of all the conflicting ideas thrown at us all the time.

Therefore when I hear of someone going "back" to the old certitudes of childhood, I figure they have been under stress and sought an escape through the qualia that this instinct provides us when we revert -- joy being the main one, but also peace and comfort and resolution.

I don't think it is instinct, I think it is brainwashing.  People want to raise thing children in what they believe to be right and proper. I know many people who have walked away from the belief systems the learned as children. Even under times of high stress I would rather dive head first in a snake pit than go to a Baptist church.

[Frank Merton]

Darkwind, on 25 January 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

I don't think it is instinct, I think it is brainwashing.  People want to raise thing children in what they believe to be right and proper. I know many people who have walked away from the belief systems the learned as children. Even under times of high stress I would rather dive head first in a snake pit than go to a Baptist church.

Well of course it is brainwashing, but I wanted to avoid being so blunt.

Yes many have walked away from such beliefs, but always with struggle and usually a residue of anger at the emotional difficulties (fear, guilt, worry) of the walking-away process.  This reflects the fact that instincts enforce themselves in emotions.

[euroninja]

Frank Merton, on 25 January 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Yes many have walked away from such beliefs, but always with struggle and usually a residue of anger at the emotional difficulties (fear, guilt, worry) of the walking-away process.

To walk away from something you believe in is always a struggle, be it atheism, Christianity, Hinduism, bah bah. You're really not saying anything profound.

Frank Merton, on 25 January 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

This reflects the fact that instincts enforce themselves in emotions.

Are you a psychologist? Do you have credentials?

[Zaphod222]

Wearer of Hats, on 24 January 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

Not exactly, my position has always been we "blind men describing an elephant" in relation to matters spiritual and deistic, so all teh belief systems are supported and supportable but they're all only describing part of a greater unknowable whole.

But an elephant is a knowable. The existance of elephants is a verifiable fact. So theists are not blind men describing an elephant; they are blind men describing a fictional Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Fact is, we do not know. Neither did any of the self-declared prophets know. Live with it.

[Zaphod222]

Frank Merton, on 25 January 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

We are born with an instinct to stick with the beliefs of childhood (it evolved to support group cohesion).  This is wired into us and explains why Egyptians tend to be Muslims, Thais tend to be Buddhists, Italians tend to be Catholics, and so on, in spite of all the conflicting ideas thrown at us all the time.

No. Egyptians do not "tend" do be muslims, they are 90% muslim now, because Egypt was conquered by muslim armees, and Shariah law was enforced. And Shariah law is designed to increase the muslim population and decrease the non-muslim population (for example by dhimmi laws, by apostesy laws and polygamy).

That is why today the previously 100% Coptic Christian population of Egypt has now shrunk to 10%.

Likewise, in Thailand, which you mention, Thais are almost all Buddhists, except in the Southern Provinces, which have a muslim population, which is perpetuating brutal terrorism in a campaign to create an independent muslim state. Sounds familiar?

There is no "tending to" involved in all of this, this is the result of a deeply political religion.

Edited by Zaphod222, 26 January 2013 - 03:43 PM.