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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#6451    The Puzzler

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 09:23 AM

It reminds me also of that word in the Avesta was it? The Fravashi or such. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fravashi
I know the V should be a U so it may not be like it at all, but still...

BUT as this word:  Friausius (from *frija 'kind', or from *fri
(h)alsio 'free'?) .

it would connect to Frisians imo.

To Mercury, liberator...?

Suppose to be Wodan too. A Germanic God, seems, that the OLB says that the real Woden was deified by the Magyar priests after he went with them, I read the Germans really only came down into Germany from Scandinavia c. 300BC so the Germans may hold the ancient stories of when they were originally in Scandinavia...so the later Germanic Gods, may have been instituted by the Magyar also at an earlier time, which also contained the sacrificial parts of it all. That Uppsala had some sacrifice going on there.

Temple of Uppsala http://en.wikipedia....mple_at_Uppsala

Thor, whom Adam refers to as "the mightiest," sits in the central throne, while Wodan (Odin) and Fricco (Freyr) are seated on the thrones to the sides of him.

and this
Adam details sacrificial practices held at the temple; Adam describes that nine males of "every living creature" are offered up for sacrifice, and tradition dictates that their blood placates the gods. The corpses of the nine males are hung within the grove beside the temple. Adam says that the grove is considered extremely sacred to the heathens, so much so that each singular tree "is considered to be divine," due to the death of those sacrificed or their rotting corpses hanging there, and that dogs and horses hang within the grove among the corpses of men. Adam reveals that "one Christian" informed him that he had seen seventy-two cadavers of differing species hanging within the grove. Adam expresses disgust at the songs they sing during these sacrificial rites, quipping that the songs are "so many and disgusting that it is best to pass over them in silence."[1]

Adam describes that near the temple stands a massive tree with far-spreading branches, which is evergreen both in summer and winter. At the tree is also a spring where sacrifices are also held. According to Adam, a custom exists where a man, alive, is thrown into the spring, and if he fails to return to the surface, "the wish of the people will be fulfilled."


In an mmm bop it's gone...

#6452    Abramelin

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 09:57 AM

I think it meant "Frisian" or even "Frisians" and nothing else.

I played a bit with the letters in FRIAVSIO, and assumed that the -V- would have been dropped soon, and that the name would become FRIASIO.

And we have a bingo:

Hugoniis Grotii Annales et historiae de rebus Belgicis - by  Hugo Grotius,Blaeu

http://books.google....friasio&f=false

Now read this sentence:

Nec magis Batavos, quanquam nova apud hostes rerum imago & multa invitamenta quaerebantur, veteris proposīti pœnitebat. Clarescente in dies novi conjugii fama perlatae ad Belgas literae, misso Friasio, quibus imperium in ipsos Isabellae transcribebatur.

Heh, and now those who can read Latin will slap their thighs laughing, but I have to use Google Translator, even though it makes spaghetti out of everything:

Batavians no more, though the image and many new things with the allurements of the enemy sought, repented of the Old Plan. Clarescente passed to the reputation of marriage in the new days of the letter of the Belgae, by sending the Friasio, to whom the command in the transcribed them was Isabella.

LOL, ok, that looked like crap, so I did it word for word (can't be worse then what Google made of it):


No more Batavians, though new with the enemy things the image of & many the allurements of sought, old plan  repented. Being on light / Being clear (?? clarescente) in the new days of marriage reputation passed to the letter of the Belgae, by sending the Friasio, which/whose government in them was transcribed (bij?) Isabella

Anyway, this is about the Batavians, the Belgae, and the... Friasio.


#6453    The Puzzler

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 12:09 PM

While still in their youth, Odin and his brothers were said to have participated in the Trojan war fighting for the Trojans. This rumor may have started because Ęsir sounds a lot like Asia.
If so Odin must have lived around 1200BC. He fought for the Trojans at Asaland, which Snorri says was Troy.

Troy might only be a copy story of an earlier story of when the real Woden lived, the one spoken of in the OLB...
Woden:He is in all likelihood identical with the Germanic god identified as "Mercury" by Roman writers[11] and possibly with the regnator omnium deus (god, ruler of all) mentioned by Tacitus in his 1st century work Germania.
http://en.wikipedia....org/wiki/Wōden
The story of Troy really has no naval battle though but Wodin himself was no Naval, he had been in charge of troops.
Who knows really on that one?


The word įss, Proto-Germanic *ansuz, is believed to be derived from Proto-Indo-European *ansu-, related to Sanskrit asura and Avestan ahura, both from Indo-Iranian *įsura, with the root *n̥su-. Indo-Iranian *n̥su- can be considered a zero-grade equivalent of Germanic *ansuz-, and with it could be reconstructed to derive from Proto-Indo-European *h2ensu-.
As/Os, Nordic-Germanic words for God.
These Aesir could be connected to Ahura or Assur too, so they might be an Assyrian presence, which is likely. The Aesir are probably Assyrs - Assyrian men who think they are Gods, powerhungry war-mongers. Troy was very priestly with haruspices etc, it seems like a priestly caste has continued these things on, so going with that, once Troy fell, people left the area. Odin's followers left and went North to Sweden. Priapus, Priam, lots of children, very fertile...?

Grimm further notes a resemblance to the name of the gods of the Etruscans reported by Suetonius and Hesychius, ęsares or ęsi. He notes that Etruscan religion, as well as Greek (Dodekatheon) and Roman polytheism, supposed a circle of twelve superior beings closely "bound" together, as it were forming a fasces, in Rome known as the dii consentes paralleling the Eddic expressions höpt and bönd "bond" for the Ęsir.


If Odin was at Troy, he could have been known as an Aesir, part of the Aesi - so the Etruscans may have known this term and it's the same as what spread north to Sweden.

Get this though: This is Osiris' names in Egyptian: Osiris = (Asar, Asari, Aser, Ausar, Ausir, Wesir, Usir, Usire or Ausare)

Then I'm thinking about his name, Os-iris lol - God eye, top seeing eye God or something, iris being part of your eye - then I find his Hieroglyphic is actually a chair above an EYE! Then Horus is the eye, the famous seeing eye of Egypt.

You can see the glyph here:
http://books.google.... osiris&f=false

Chief eye - the watcher. God's Eye.

This also says that Osiris might have come into Egypt as Marduk of Babylon.

Osiris had much in common with ASHUR of Assyria and Marduk of Babylon it says. Apis and Osiris are connected too as Serapis. That's who Christians worshipped in Egypt.
The pole or tree trunk was adorned at his festivals - looking again like Horagalles imo.

Then Herodotus has reports of Egyptians being at Colchis, whether they got there thru Sesostris is not the point, the people are there, they have been seen with his own eyes. The Egyptians at Colchis more than likely are the people of the Sun God, Helios (Ra) but also have Osiris. Thinking about it more I can think of a parallel even, that Aeetes son is chopped into many pieces by Medea, as Osiris is also chopped up. I doubt Egyptians were there before c. 600BC anyway but I also think these myths are later than thought too and that many are only created from ancient strands c. 600BC at earliest.

The Magyar are like Egyptian priests and have idols, ra cys, solar cows - as I said before I also think the golden calf is an early version of Jesus incarnation, Dionysus was one too and as I thought about it, I Googled it and it's not so far-fetched in thinking the Minotaur is also a form of Jesus. Also, if the Magi are some kind of Magyar this knowledge should not be new to them, that is the foretelling of a birth of a new golden calf.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#6454    The Puzzler

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 12:32 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 October 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

I think it meant "Frisian" or even "Frisians" and nothing else.

I played a bit with the letters in FRIAVSIO, and assumed that the -V- would have been dropped soon, and that the name would become FRIASIO.

And we have a bingo:

Hugoniis Grotii Annales et historiae de rebus Belgicis - by  Hugo Grotius,Blaeu

http://books.google....friasio&f=false

Now read this sentence:

Nec magis Batavos, quanquam nova apud hostes rerum imago & multa invitamenta quaerebantur, veteris proposīti pœnitebat. Clarescente in dies novi conjugii fama perlatae ad Belgas literae, misso Friasio, quibus imperium in ipsos Isabellae transcribebatur.

Heh, and now those who can read Latin will slap their thighs laughing, but I have to use Google Translator, even though it makes spaghetti out of everything:

Batavians no more, though the image and many new things with the allurements of the enemy sought, repented of the Old Plan. Clarescente passed to the reputation of marriage in the new days of the letter of the Belgae, by sending the Friasio, to whom the command in the transcribed them was Isabella.

LOL, ok, that looked like crap, so I did it word for word (can't be worse then what Google made of it):


No more Batavians, though new with the enemy things the image of & many the allurements of sought, old plan  repented. Being on light / Being clear (?? clarescente) in the new days of marriage reputation passed to the letter of the Belgae, by sending the Friasio, which/whose government in them was transcribed (bij?) Isabella

Anyway, this is about the Batavians, the Belgae, and the... Friasio.
I dunno. It says it's possibly meaning Frigg. I only agree it is connected to Frisians in the way that the term Frya and this Friasio - I think the term free as in liberator could be possible.

The next part is interesting: In Empel there is the remains of a temple to Hercules Magusanus. This was the Romans' Latin name for the supreme god of the Batavians, Donar. Stone votives and broken weapons as symbolic offerings are at the location.
http://en.wikipedia....e_Low_Countries

That Hercules Magusanus you showed is a Thor.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#6455    Abramelin

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 01:10 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 05 October 2011 - 12:32 PM, said:

I dunno. It says it's possibly meaning Frigg. I only agree it is connected to Frisians in the way that the term Frya and this Friasio - I think the term free as in liberator could be possible.

The next part is interesting: In Empel there is the remains of a temple to Hercules Magusanus. This was the Romans' Latin name for the supreme god of the Batavians, Donar. Stone votives and broken weapons as symbolic offerings are at the location.
http://en.wikipedia....e_Low_Countries

That Hercules Magusanus you showed is a Thor.

The Latin quote in my former post is from a Dutch guy (Hugo Grotius, 17th century) who wanted to use the example of the ancient Batavians and Frisians for the Dutch people fighting against the oppression of the Spaniards.

=

The Herculus I showed is from this PDF: http://www.hetgroene...nFietsroute.pdf

Either they are wrong or you are wrong.

And Hercules/Herakles is always depicted as a naked guy carrying a club.

Thor most often carried a hammer (and lightning/sparks), aka Donar (think 'thunder').


"Dies Mercurii" = day of Mercury = Wednesday = Wodan's day.
"Dies Jovis" = day of Jupiter = Donar/Thor's day = Thursday (Dutch: Donderdag).


.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 October 2011 - 01:44 PM.


#6456    Abramelin

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 02:21 PM

I have talked a lot about the Vikings as a people who - and I am quite convinced - must have inspired those who created the OLB, and transplanted a lot of Viking history to a point at least 2000 years before the Viking era.

The Frisians were closely related to the Vikings, must have looked quite similar in appearence and most probably spoke a closely related language (together with the Angles).

I have also said - quoting from a Dutch pdf - that it is thought that the Vikings may have learned of piracy and raids by these same Frisians.

But the Frisians (or better, Frisii) started a lot earlier than I first thought:

Dutch:

De opstand bezorgde de Frisii een enorme reputatie bij de overige Germaanse volkeren en men trok zich van de Romeinen niet veel meer aan. Groepen Friezen bezetten landbouwgrond die voor de legioenen was gereserveerd en weigerden de nieuwe nederzettingen op te geven. Dit werd ook geholpen doordat Caligula en na hem Claudius I zich concentreerden op de verovering van Brittannië. De Chauken en Frisii maakten hier gebruik van en wierpen zich op de piraterij.

http://nl.wikipedia....en_in_Friesland

English:

The uprising gave the Frisii a tremendous reputation among the other Germanic peoples, and they couldn't care less about the Romans any longer. Frisian bands occupied agricultural land that was reserved for the legions and refused to give up their new settlements. This was also aided by Caligula, and Claudius after him, both focussing on the conquest of Britain. The Chaucii and the Frisii took advantage of this and started with piracy.

That was before Drusus was able to reconquer the Frisian area in 47 AD.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 October 2011 - 02:23 PM.


#6457    Knul

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 04:51 PM

Whoever built the Brittenburg, he had the advantage of an island in the mouth of the River Rhine and a huge mass of stones of the former Roman lighthouse. The same happened in the mouth of the Schelde (called: Het Steen), though it is said that the building is younger. Besides, above the entrance of Het Steen you can still see a similar wallstone as we discussed for the Brittenburg. Just the Jezuiets cut off the penis.

Did you read the publications:

J.G. Ottema, Leeuwarden, De Middelzee en het Oera Linda Boek, n.d.
J.G. Ottema, Geschiedkundige aanteekeningen en ophelderingen bij thet Oera Linda Boek, 1878 (which contains similar information on the Middelzee).

Ottema gives:

Fryasburch - Texel
Stavia - Stavoren
Medeasblik - Medemblik
Forana - Vroonen
Lydasburch - Leiden
Walhallagara - Walcheren
Minnagardaforde - Munster
Katsburch - Kassel
Nyfryasburch - Freiburch
Aken - Aken
Godasburch - Gothenburch
Buda - Buda (pest)
Kadik - Cadix
Ljudgarda - Leeuwarden
Lindahem ?

I cannot believe Buda - Budapest as it was in the territory of the Magjars. What do you think of Bude-Huxte or Huxte-Bude (Hamburg) not far from Munster either ?
Lindahem could be identified as Linda-wrden (- Wolvega).
Do you agree with Katsburch - Kassel and Nyfryasburch - Freiburg ?

I am still puzzling about Lumkamakia. Did you discuss this before ?

Edited by Knul, 05 October 2011 - 04:52 PM.


#6458    Abramelin

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 06:11 PM

View PostKnul, on 05 October 2011 - 04:51 PM, said:

Whoever built the Brittenburg, he had the advantage of an island in the mouth of the River Rhine and a huge mass of stones of the former Roman lighthouse. The same happened in the mouth of the Schelde (called: Het Steen), though it is said that the building is younger. Besides, above the entrance of Het Steen you can still see a similar wallstone as we discussed for the Brittenburg. Just the Jezuiets cut off the penis.

Did you read the publications:

J.G. Ottema, Leeuwarden, De Middelzee en het Oera Linda Boek, n.d.
J.G. Ottema, Geschiedkundige aanteekeningen en ophelderingen bij thet Oera Linda Boek, 1878 (which contains similar information on the Middelzee).

Ottema gives:

Fryasburch - Texel
Stavia - Stavoren
Medeasblik - Medemblik
Forana - Vroonen
Lydasburch - Leiden
Walhallagara - Walcheren
Minnagardaforde - Munster
Katsburch - Kassel
Nyfryasburch - Freiburch
Aken - Aken
Godasburch - Gothenburch
Buda - Buda (pest)
Kadik - Cadix
Ljudgarda - Leeuwarden
Lindahem ?

I cannot believe Buda - Budapest as it was in the territory of the Magjars. What do you think of Bude-Huxte or Huxte-Bude (Hamburg) not far from Munster either ?
Lindahem could be identified as Linda-wrden (- Wolvega).
Do you agree with Katsburch - Kassel and Nyfryasburch - Freiburg ?

I am still puzzling about Lumkamakia. Did you discuss this before ?

I discussed Lindahem... a place that was never found again after a stormflood. Well, I found it, and it was in Germany, and there was a legend around that German place, and it said it had vanished...

Buxtehude (not Budehuxte as far as I know)... hmm.. I was thinking about Baduhenna http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baduhenna and switch -a- for -u- so you will get Buda-henna. I actually made that error often when I was googling something about Baduhenna (secret forest of the Goddess Badu).

Lydasburch = Leidscheburg

Katsburg =  Kassel... could be.

All the other ones you mentioned we did indeed discuss.

But not Lumkamakia; I have no idea.

Like that woman, Gosa Makonta.

Sorry, I dont have much time now.


#6459    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 04:51 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 October 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

The Latin quote in my former post is from a Dutch guy (Hugo Grotius, 17th century) who wanted to use the example of the ancient Batavians and Frisians for the Dutch people fighting against the oppression of the Spaniards.

=

The Herculus I showed is from this PDF: http://www.hetgroene...nFietsroute.pdf

Either they are wrong or you are wrong.

And Hercules/Herakles is always depicted as a naked guy carrying a club.

Thor most often carried a hammer (and lightning/sparks), aka Donar (think 'thunder').


"Dies Mercurii" = day of Mercury = Wednesday = Wodan's day.
"Dies Jovis" = day of Jupiter = Donar/Thor's day = Thursday (Dutch: Donderdag).


.
Well, I'm just repeating what this said: In Empel there is the remains of a temple to Hercules Magusanus. This was the Romans' Latin name for the supreme god of the Batavians, Donar.

That Heracles Magusanus was the Roman's latin name for Donar.

No, Thor is always a combo of Heracles and Zeus.

Tacitus says explicity that Thor is Heracles: Tacitus refers to the god Odin as "Mercury", Thor as "Hercules", and the god Tżr as "Mars",

On the outside it may seem they have nothing in common.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#6460    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 05:05 AM

"The Greeks tell many tales without due investigation"  according to Herodotus. Also don't forget the Heracles the Greeks told stories about was not the same immortal ancient God Heracles of Egypt nor Tyre.

The account which I received of this Hercules makes him one of the twelve gods. Of the other Hercules, with whom the Greeks are familiar, I could hear nothing in any part of Egypt. That the Greeks, however (those I mean who gave the son of Amphitryon that name), took the name from the Egyptians, and not the Egyptians from the Greeks, is I think clearly proved, among other arguments, by the fact that both the parents of Hercules, Amphitryon as well as Alcmena, were of Egyptian origin. Again, the Egyptians disclaim all knowledge of the names of Neptune and the Dioscuri, and do not include them in the number of their gods; but had they adopted the name of any god from the Greeks, these would have been the likeliest to obtain notice, since the Egyptians, as I am well convinced, practised navigation at that time, and the Greeks also were some of them mariners, so that they would have been more likely to know the names of these gods than that of Hercules. But the Egyptian Hercules is one of their ancient gods. Seventeen thousand years before the reign of Amasis, the twelve gods were, they affirm, produced from the eight: and of these twelve, Hercules is one.

In the wish to get the best information that I could on these matters, I made a voyage to Tyre in Phoenicia, hearing there was a temple of Hercules at that place, very highly venerated. I visited the temple, and found it richly adorned with a number of offerings, among which were two pillars, one of pure gold, the other of emerald, shining with great brilliancy at night. In a conversation which I held with the priests, I inquired how long their temple had been built, and found by their answer that they, too, differed from the Greeks. They said that the temple was built at the same time that the city was founded, and that the foundation of the city took place two thousand three hundred years ago. In Tyre I remarked another temple where the same god was worshipped as the Thasian Hercules. So I went on to Thasos, where I found a temple of Hercules which had been built by the Phoenicians who colonised that island when they sailed in search of Europa. Even this was five generations earlier than the time when Hercules, son of Amphitryon, was born in Greece. These researches show plainly that there is an ancient god Hercules; and my own opinion is that those Greeks act most wisely who build and maintain two temples of Hercules, in the one of which the Hercules worshipped is known by the name of Olympian, and has sacrifice offered to him as an immortal, while in the other the honours paid are such as are due to a hero.

The Greeks tell many tales without due investigation, and among them the following silly fable respecting Hercules:- "Hercules," they say, "went once to Egypt, and there the inhabitants took him, and putting a chaplet on his head, led him out in solemn procession, intending to offer him a sacrifice to Jupiter.

http://classics.mit....story.2.ii.html


---------------
Also, don't forget this guy, Horagalles, a Sami God, whose name sounds like Heracles and is like Thor and his symbol was the rainbow.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Horagalles
Posted Image
A pillar of Horagalles I guess.

Edited by The Puzzler, 06 October 2011 - 05:12 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#6461    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:56 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 06 October 2011 - 04:51 AM, said:

Well, I'm just repeating what this said: In Empel there is the remains of a temple to Hercules Magusanus. This was the Romans' Latin name for the supreme god of the Batavians, Donar.

That Heracles Magusanus was the Roman's latin name for Donar.

No, Thor is always a combo of Heracles and Zeus.

Tacitus says explicity that Thor is Heracles: Tacitus refers to the god Odin as "Mercury", Thor as "Hercules", and the god Týr as "Mars",

On the outside it may seem they have nothing in common.

Yes, you were repeating what it says, but apparently you didn't check the links...

This is your quote:

In Empel there is the remains of a temple to Hercules Magusanus. This was the Romans' Latin name for the supreme god of the Batavians, Donar. Stone votives and broken weapons as symbolic offerings are at the location.[18]

http://en.wikipedia....e_Low_Countries


..then click on the reference, where they must have got it from: [18] :

The sanctuary of Magusanus, the supreme god of the Batavians, at Empel (between the modern town of Den Bosch and the river Meuse) is one of the very few religious monuments from Germania Inferior that can be interpreted with a fair degree of certainty.

Still, the nature of the god is difficult to understand. However, the fact that he was likened to Hercules, the role model of the ideal Roman man, suggests that Magusanus was something of a macho. On the other hand, there are indications that this god was responsible for fertility. In the sanctuary of Elst, which was probably dedicated to Magusanus as well, a suovetaurilia has been found, a type of sacrifice that the Roman only offered to fertility gods. Moreover, the name Magusanus means "old young man" - in other words, a god with the wisdom of old age and the vitality of youth. The god of Empel had a complex personality.


http://www.livius.or...ania/empel.html

As you must have seen in your quote, the name "Empel" was a link to a Wiki page about Empel, and this is what it says:

Points of interest
Empel was the ancient site of a temple to Hercules Magusanus. This was the Latin name of the supreme god of the Batavians. Stone votives and broken weapons as symbolic offerings are at the location.[2] Roman ruins are in the region.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empel

So, someone sneaked in "Donar", and that's it.

And the guy I posted a picture of was "Hercules Magusanus" and looks like the identical twin of the Roman/Greek Hercules.



And then you say this:

"Tacitus says explicity that Thor is Heracles: Tacitus refers to the god Odin as "Mercury", Thor as "Hercules", and the god Týr as "Mars"


This is what *I* posted:

According to this pdf (see top of page 51) it is now certain that the complete text on the statue of Ubbergen should be:

[D]EO.MERCVRI(o)/ FRIAVSIO/ [S]IMPLICIVS / INGENVS / V.S.L.M

http://dare.ubn.kun..../1/26376___.PDF


So... the Latin text mentions Mercury, which is Wodan/Odin, like Tacitus said.


++++


EDIT:

We do not know the name of the Batavian god or goddess who was venerated at Elst, but it is possible that the Romans identified him with their Hercules, because the remains of a statuette have been found, which show the club of this demigod. Since the supreme god of the Batavians, Magusanus, was equaled to Hercules, it is very tempting to think that Magusanus was venerated in the Elst temple. However, Hercules is not really known as a fertility god.

http://www.livius.or...mania/elst.html

EDIT:

I think I see the problem: Thor is equal to Hercules (Tacitus), but that doesn't mean any Hercules found in Germania is equal to Thor. They found "a" statue of Hercules, a statue clearly depicting the Roman/Greek Hercules.





.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 October 2011 - 10:13 AM.


#6462    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 11:09 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 06 October 2011 - 05:05 AM, said:

"The Greeks tell many tales without due investigation"  according to Herodotus. Also don't forget the Heracles the Greeks told stories about was not the same immortal ancient God Heracles of Egypt nor Tyre.

The account which I received of this Hercules makes him one of the twelve gods. Of the other Hercules, with whom the Greeks are familiar, I could hear nothing in any part of Egypt. That the Greeks, however (those I mean who gave the son of Amphitryon that name), took the name from the Egyptians, and not the Egyptians from the Greeks, is I think clearly proved, among other arguments, by the fact that both the parents of Hercules, Amphitryon as well as Alcmena, were of Egyptian origin. Again, the Egyptians disclaim all knowledge of the names of Neptune and the Dioscuri, and do not include them in the number of their gods; but had they adopted the name of any god from the Greeks, these would have been the likeliest to obtain notice, since the Egyptians, as I am well convinced, practised navigation at that time, and the Greeks also were some of them mariners, so that they would have been more likely to know the names of these gods than that of Hercules. But the Egyptian Hercules is one of their ancient gods. Seventeen thousand years before the reign of Amasis, the twelve gods were, they affirm, produced from the eight: and of these twelve, Hercules is one.

In the wish to get the best information that I could on these matters, I made a voyage to Tyre in Phoenicia, hearing there was a temple of Hercules at that place, very highly venerated. I visited the temple, and found it richly adorned with a number of offerings, among which were two pillars, one of pure gold, the other of emerald, shining with great brilliancy at night. In a conversation which I held with the priests, I inquired how long their temple had been built, and found by their answer that they, too, differed from the Greeks. They said that the temple was built at the same time that the city was founded, and that the foundation of the city took place two thousand three hundred years ago. In Tyre I remarked another temple where the same god was worshipped as the Thasian Hercules. So I went on to Thasos, where I found a temple of Hercules which had been built by the Phoenicians who colonised that island when they sailed in search of Europa. Even this was five generations earlier than the time when Hercules, son of Amphitryon, was born in Greece. These researches show plainly that there is an ancient god Hercules; and my own opinion is that those Greeks act most wisely who build and maintain two temples of Hercules, in the one of which the Hercules worshipped is known by the name of Olympian, and has sacrifice offered to him as an immortal, while in the other the honours paid are such as are due to a hero.

The Greeks tell many tales without due investigation, and among them the following silly fable respecting Hercules:- "Hercules," they say, "went once to Egypt, and there the inhabitants took him, and putting a chaplet on his head, led him out in solemn procession, intending to offer him a sacrifice to Jupiter.

http://classics.mit....story.2.ii.html


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Also, don't forget this guy, Horagalles, a Sami God, whose name sounds like Heracles and is like Thor and his symbol was the rainbow.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Horagalles

Posted Image
A pillar of Horagalles I guess.



"They said that the temple was built at the same time that the city was founded, and that the foundation of the city took place two thousand three hundred years ago."

So that means 2300 + 400 = 2700 BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus

So in case you want to suggest by means of Herodotus' words that this temple had anything to do with the OLB Tyre, then there is something wrong about the date.

==


Early scholars noted the similarities between Horagalles and the Norse thunder-god Thor and that some Sami called him Thoron or simply Thor, and were unsure which had influenced which.[13] But the name Horagalles is now interpreted as a loanword from the Old Norse Þórr Karl, "the Old Man Thor,"[1][14] "Thor, the Elder,"[15] or "Thor fellow,"[16] "Thor Karl" (possibly from Norwegian Torrekall),[17][18] or Swedish Torsmannen, "the thunder man."[19]

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Horagalles

So you're saying that "Thor Karl" changed into Roman "Hercules" and the Saami "Horagalles"?

Hmmm...


.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 October 2011 - 11:11 AM.


#6463    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:09 PM

What should be noted is that Horagalles other name is Tiermes and it says this:

The names of the god vary considerably between regions, with Tiermes and variants being commonly used among northern Sami and Horagalles and variants among southern Sami,[4][5] but unlike Horagalles, the name Tiermes is not a loanword; it is related to Torym, found in Siberia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiermes

It's all getting closer to Tor and Thor.

The closest I can find to this Siberian Torym is possibly through Polish Torem - which equates to Thorr

Polish[edit] PronunciationIPA: [t̪ɔr]
audio  (file)

[edit] Etymology 1[edit] Noun tor m.

1.track, course, path
2.rail track
3.lane (a part of a sports track)
4.trajectory

Declension[show ▼]    declension of tor singular plural
nominative tor tory
genitive toru torów
dative torowi torom
accusative tor tory
instrumental torem torami
locative torze torach
vocative torze tory
[edit] Etymology 2From Latin thorium < Old Scandinavian Thorr

[edit] Noun tor m.

1.thorium

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tor

This article mentions a Hanti Num-Torym possibly Num, a supreme God of Finno-ugric people. Apparently a Samoyed Sky God is Num.
http://books.google....epage&q&f=false


Some Lapps also had a thunder god called Tiermes or in some places Horagalles, and other ruler sky gods such as Radien or Vearalden, whose sacred sites were marked by a stytto, the symbol of a world tree or pillar that reached up to the North Star. The Finns also had such a pillar. Several of the Lapp sky gods have been compared to the Samoyed sky god Num.

Read more: Finno-Ugric mythology - haldi, stytto, sampo, iso tammi, iso harka, Kalevala - Sky, God, World, Peoples, Earth, and Myths
http://www.faqs.org/...l#ixzz1a0OkEP95

What I say is these Gods existed long, long ago are are the originals for other religions. The practices of these shaman are very old and all through the whole of Russia and surrounds, I don't think they have taken them up, I think they spread them, maybe even 10,000 years ago into Egypt and Libya. Migrating peoples, leaving no trace. Seidis, which sounds like Poseidon who had blue eyes, a rock, like Mt Atlas, Pole Stars etc...

Their most common physical appearance is northern European with blond hair and blue eyes like Finns or Scandinavians.

All this is common in myths of the Mediterranean.

Among other roles, the Sami Shaman, or noaidi, enabled ritual communication with the supernatural[92] through the use of tools such as drums, chants, and sacred objects.[93] Some practices within the Old Sami religion included natural sacred sites such as mountains, springs, land formations, as well as man-made ones such as petroglyphs and labyrinths.

I was saying 'no trace', or very little, especially thousands of years ago, when they migrated or wandered around.

Fenni seems to have been a form of the proto-Germanic word finne, denoting "wanderers" or "hunting folk".[19] Tacitus describes the Fenni as follows:[20]

"In wonderful savageness live the nation of the Fenni, and in beastly poverty, destitute of arms, of horses, and of homes; their food, the common herbs; their apparel, skins; their bed, the earth; their only hope in their arrows, which for want of iron they point with bones. Their common support they have from the chase, women as well as men; for with these the former wander up and down, and crave a portion of the prey. Nor other shelter have they even for their babes, against the violence of tempests and ravening beasts, than to cover them with the branches of trees twisted together; this a reception for the old men, and hither resort the young. Such a condition they judge more happy than the painful occupation of cultivating the ground, than the labour of rearing houses, than the agitations of hope and fear attending the defense of their own property or the seizing that of others. Secure against the designs of men, secure against the malignity of the Gods, they have accomplished a thing of infinite difficulty; that to them nothing remains even to be wished."

This description is of a lifestyle much more primitive than that of the medieval Sami, who were pastoralists living off herds of reindeer and inhabiting sophisticated tents of deer-hide. But the archaeological evidence suggests that the proto-Sami and Proto-Finns had a lifestyle more akin to Tacitus' description


I'm not looking for a genetics debate but I can't wash over the fact that Sami's and Berbers share a gene from around 7000BC and that Libyans are mentioned as being part of early Greek lines.
Alessandro Achilli and colleagues noted that the Sami and the Berbers share U5b1b, which they estimated at 9,000 years old, and argued that this provides evidence for a radiation of the haplogroup from the Franco-Cantabrian refuge area of southwestern Europe

Berbers arriving in Africa from the Franco-Cantabrian area, if so, would have already carried with them the knowledge of spiritual shamanism, most likely of the bull and horse from that area, since this would have been the realm they knew. The OLB is saying how these Magyar are like Egyptian priests, telling us they are most likely the same people.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#6464    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:30 PM

So, from you posts I get that the Saami had a loanword "Horagalles" from the Norse, and a (Siberian?) "Tiermes" with no etymological connection with anything "Thor".

(That part you quoted from Latin is about the chemical element Thorium that was indeed named after "Thor". But not by the ancient Romans, lol.)


And then we get to a source, Tacitus, a source which a guy like Halbertsma could have known by heart...

And I'll let Cormac discuss genetics with you.


#6465    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 03:15 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 October 2011 - 01:30 PM, said:

So, from you posts I get that the Saami had a loanword "Horagalles" from the Norse, and a (Siberian?) "Tiermes" with no etymological connection with anything "Thor".

(That part you quoted from Latin is about the chemical element Thorium that was indeed named after "Thor". But not by the ancient Romans, lol.)


And then we get to a source, Tacitus, a source which a guy like Halbertsma could have known by heart...

And I'll let Cormac discuss genetics with you.
I really hope he doesn't bother, I've heard it all before - nevertheless, it's there in black and white, they share genes.

I know Thorium is an element, it's etymology 2 - the first one is track, etc, and Torem, OK, I see I wrote equates to Thorr when that is etymology 2 not 1 - confusing I know, sorry.

The thing is here we have the Greek Heracles often said his twelve labours are the equal of the Zodiac - the path of the Sun makes a track through the Zodiac.

I'm not really sure, you have twisted it around so I barely understand it anyway now, it's too late and i have the start of a headache, not that important anyway for this thread but I might follow it through some more at a later time.

In an mmm bop it's gone...