131 replies to this topic

[Purifier]

I don't know, Seeker79. It sounds like you got some kind of personal vandetta against video games. I've noticed a lot of bias tone in your comments on video games. Some of what you say makes logical sense, but you seem to keep honing in on video games specifically. I will say, I think it may be a small part of it, but the key word here is: small

I think the biggest part/reason of it all, has to do with the last three generations and their parenting skills. That's were it starts, how you raise and discipline your kids and that it's not just any one specific outside influential force like, guns, video games, sex, drugs, and the media.

The discipline and reward system. Something I noticed a lot of kids seemed to lack when they were raised into adults over the years, especially in the U.S., as I grew up into an adult myself. I'm one of the Gen Xers, btw. And that's were I think it all started, with a lot of Gen Xers not being properly trained through the discipline and reward system. Thus they passed on what they learned from their parents to their kids, in what they thought was discipline. I say this because, I noticed a lot kids back in the day of my youth, who always seemed to get away with a lot of crap; more than they should have.


Then again, maybe it started with some of the baby boomer's generation after WW2 and how some of them were properly disciplined. But the lack of proper discipline started with one generation at some point.

[s33ker]

Aussie kids play these games ,some have mental issues and are on meds.
When was our last school massacre? So glad I live here so I don't have
get a concealed weapons licence to feel safe from the crazie gamers and
most of all because we have gun regulations.

[Seeker79]

Kazahel, on 17 December 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

I know he was trained, I said that about four times. And just because he 'might' of been on the autistic spectrum doesnt mean this was foreseeable. What you typed above almost reads as saying that being on the autistic spectrum was likely the major factor.

Anyway so I did a very quick look around just then and found this. I dont know much about autism or the spectrum so I thought I'd have a quick read.

http://health.usnews...iolence-experts

Kaz... I know your chip gets the better of you with me, but I work with spectrum kids all the time. I have also done extensive research to better serve them. The situation is so much more dynamic than most people understand.

[Seeker79]

Purifier, on 17 December 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

I don't know, Seeker79. It sounds like you got some kind of personal vandetta against video games. I've noticed a lot of bias tone in your comments on video games. Some of what you say makes logical sense, but you seem to keep honing in on video games specifically. I will say, I think it may be a small part of it, but the key word here is: small

I think the biggest part/reason of it all, has to do with the last three generations and their parenting skills. That's were it starts, how you raise and discipline your kids and that it's not just any one specific outside influential force like, guns, video games, sex, drugs, and the media.

The discipline and reward system. Something I noticed a lot of kids seemed to lack when they were raised into adults over the years, especially in the U.S., as I grew up into an adult myself. I'm one of the Gen Xers, btw. And that's were I think it all started, with a lot of Gen Xers not being properly trained through the discipline and reward system. Thus they passed on what they learned from their parents to their kids, in what they thought was discipline. I say this because, I noticed a lot kids back in the day of my youth, who always seemed to get away with a lot of crap; more than they should have.


Then again, maybe it started with some of the baby boomer's generation after WW2 and how some of them were properly disciplined. But the lack of proper discipline started with one generation at some point.

I'm sorry my friend you are right. I do have a bias. But it's from pure observation. I don't like the extreme violence in some of these games and I witness first hand the effect on kids lives.  I do not think it's the games entirely but more of a reflection of what economies tend to value and why. It goes very deep, and I do have a degree in economics and work first hand with many many children on the frontlines so to speak. But... Yes it is an opinion until a scientific correlation is established.

Parenting is a factor. But still I think it's deeper than we think. I think Certain things that good normal parents do might be terrible mistakes. I do not buy into the old fashion Christian parenting..,, everything is new in our modern world, the effects of this newness is difficult to ascertain.  Change in everything  is so fast, getting a bead on how it effects our children is nearly impossible..... But yes.. I'm no Christian zealot.... But when I see the insane violence that I know most of our 12 year old population has access to, I have to question it profusely especially being a teacher of teens over the last 15 years and watching the gradual increase of obsession with it first hand. It dosnt make any sense to me. Other than money makeing. Parenting is very rarely a factor in extreme violence. It's usually a factor in more mundane issues. Case in point the latest incidence. Every indication is that she was doing the best she could, but yet something else was the primary influence. It did not surprise me a bit that this horrid situation was carried out by Somone who was probably autistic who used to hold LAN parties. Really.... once I I heard all of that it made perfect sense to me. It's still senseless, but I know people well I make my living off of it.

Edited by Seeker79, 17 December 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[Kazahel]

Seeker79, on 17 December 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

Kaz... I know your chip gets the better of you with me, but I work with spectrum kids all the time. I have also done extensive research to better serve them. The situation is so much more dynamic than most people understand.

Dont make up nonsense by attempting to make out I have a chip. If anyone else had posted this I would say the same thing.

Anyway was my link not valid?

[Seeker79]

s33ker, on 17 December 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

Aussie kids play these games ,some have mental issues and are on meds.
When was our last school massacre? So glad I live here so I don't have
get a concealed weapons licence to feel safe from the crazie gamers and
most of all because we have gun regulations.

You are just behind the curve don't worry... I think it's comeing your way. The US tends to export its chaos.

Edited by Seeker79, 17 December 2012 - 05:54 AM.

[AliveInDeath7]

You really can't control anything. I find the recent CT shootings a tragedy but you really can't stop it. Even if this country took away the 2nd Amendment, I'd be willing to bet you that it wouldn't change, just get worse. Not alot of people I know will give up their guns without a fight to the death first. Nothing will stop a person from killing innocents but a responsible person with a gun. No one can ever tell what's going on in some peoples' brains, so it will always be an act of random spontaneous crime...or so it seems. With the last shooting, I can genuinely tell that he was completely dead inside for some reason, to want to kill innocents like that.

[Seeker79]

Kazahel, on 17 December 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

Dont make up nonsense by attempting to make out I have a chip. If anyone else had posted this I would say the same thing.

Anyway was my link not valid?

Its not nonsense. If you want I'll take up your chip with me in private. I'll make a damn good case that not even you can dodge. The link wasn't valid.  spectrum  kids are not violent probably less so than the average population, but you have to know the intrasies of their condition to understand how they they can be.

Edited by Seeker79, 17 December 2012 - 05:51 AM.

[Kazahel]

Seeker79, on 17 December 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

Its not nonsense. If you want I'll take up your chip with me in private. I'll make a damn good case that not even you can dodge. The link wasn't valid.  spectrum  kids are not violent probably less so than the average population, but you have to know the intrasies of their condition to understand how they they can be.

It is nonsense. You think I have a chip because I question your 'truths'. ? If anyone else did that they'd be called a skeptic.

And with this kid you keep making assumptions about him and speaking as if they are truths.  And thats a fact.

Edited by Kazahel, 17 December 2012 - 06:22 AM.

[Seeker79]

Kazahel, on 17 December 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

It is nonsense. You think I have a chip because I question your 'truths'. ? If anyone else did that they'd be called a skeptic.

And with this kid you keep making assumptions about him and speaking as if they are truths.  And thats a fact.

I think you have a chip because you fixate on my posts when I have said nothing to you. (honestly i think it goes a ways back) You mistake educated guess and non passive voice for proclamations of absolute truth. I was trained to write that way. Some people are put off by it.., so be it. Seriously.. Your scrutanty of every word I say from the "suppose" incident to my arguments here make me wonder.

[s33ker]

seeker79, it's so very true, USA does spread it's caos everywhere.

[The Id3al Experience]

Seeker79, on 16 December 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

That's possible, but that has to be weighed against desentizing people to it, and possibly creating people to have violent tendencies. Studies like that are higly suspect. Where did they find people with violent tendencies? Obviously if they are violent , they are probably not allowed to act it out by some kind of restraint, so yes... The game is going to be a release. It's hard to tell without knowing the details. But I have got to say, I deplore allowing impressionable teenagers to play that crap.

Its the parents too Seeker, I mean most games are rated. I love playing them games. Iv never killed anyone.

Im online playing a shoot them up game, and I have kids that are no older than 10 yrs playing screaming down the mic saying all sorts of languages me in my grown years wouldnt say....

Were are the parents? Who buy these R rated games that you need ID for?

To be honest taking away games and allowing guns? I think thats backwards. IMO.

You ever heard the saying: Guns don't kill people, people kill people?

My proposal would be - Huge gun control and your right, the media need to shut up -- but whats new. haha


Thanks Seeker

Kind Regards,
Me,

[Kazahel]

The Id3al Experience, on 18 December 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

Its the parents too Seeker, I mean most games are rated. I love playing them games. Iv never killed anyone.

Im online playing a shoot them up game, and I have kids that are no older than 10 yrs playing screaming down the mic saying all sorts of languages me in my grown years wouldnt say....

Were are the parents? Who buy these R rated games that you need ID for?

I see you're in New Zealand. Do you guys actually have R rated games over there? In Australia we dont have the R rated game classification yet I dont think. I think they were bringing it in but I'm not sure when. Anyway so our games the highest ratings I think for now are MA15+. Which means..

Quote

"MA15+ (Mature accompanied for those under 15) – Contains material that is considered unsuitable for exhibition by persons under the age of 15. Persons under 15 may only legally purchase, rent, exhibit or view MA15+ rated content under the supervision of an adult guardian"

So I'm online quite a lot and have been in the gaming community for many years. And I often hear people abusing the younger players simply for speaking. If a younger sounding kid speaks over the mic they are usually told to "shut up *********  stupid little kid, your voice is too annoying!" or something along those lines. They are then questioned and abused on why they are playing and told they should not be allowed to. They say the game is for 15+ without understanding about the supervision line. So for all they know they have a dad like me watching them...

So in the games I've been playing(the more popular ones) the younger kids generally do nothing wrong and are actually quite polite, when they speak its usually simple things like "where are you?". They are not really at that age to be a smartass(to think they are big tough guys). It's the older kids/teenagers (guessing 15-20yrs)that are the problem in regards to screaming down the mics with all sorts of language and being abusive. The older kids are the role models which the younger kids want to be one day... So if you hear a younger player being abusive and screaming down the mic they are basically trying to act like the teenagers(they want to be 'cool' like the older kids.

So if you actually want to stop any younger kids from mouthing off you gotta lead by example.

Edited by Kazahel, 18 December 2012 - 02:34 AM.

[spartan max2]

I disagree with number 3 big time.

I play video games all the time. My freinds do too. None of us have violent tendices. None of us want to go shoot a school up. No study shows that it makes people want to.

Edited by spartan max2, 18 December 2012 - 04:07 AM.

[sutemi]

How do we stop it? Getting rid of the guns is obviously out of the question for some reason or other I suppose. Perhaps you could say what is your reason for wanting to keep a device that’s only purpose is to kill? I say this not to get at you but to try to expand the debate beyond video games although I do agree there is far too much glorification of violence in modern societies. Is the bigger picture more about the fractured societies we live in? Also Seeker ,no 1 in your list, “We identify autistic spectrum, sensitive, and vulnerable kids early on and give them incredible support against bullying and self-esteem issues”. Who will pay for this? The USA hates taxation, are you suggesting higher taxation to combat the problems in society?

“If the Climate was a bank we would have already fixed it” Hugo Chavez

Edited by sutemi, 18 December 2012 - 09:45 AM.