__Kratos__ Posted July 28, 2005 #1 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Israeli and American officials described talks held this week with the White House over millions of dollars in post-disengagement aid to Israel as "constructive," while some US media reports expressed criticism at the idea of more American dollars heading this way. Both sides called the two-hour meeting held Monday night in Washington preliminary, with no decisions being made. More talks are expected in the near future. "That meeting was useful in giving us a better understanding of Israel's plans for development in the Negev and Galilee regions," State Department spokesman Tom Casey said at a press briefing Tuesday. "I think we'll now be considering how the US can best assist Israel with those efforts." He would not confirm the $2.2 billion figure the Israelis have attached to the deal, saying, On Monday, CNN aired a report that was introduced as: "How much is enough? Israel asks the United States for billions more in economic aid. That's on top of the almost $3 billion we provide each year for a nation of 6.5 million people." In addition to criticism from the heads of foundations for Middle East peace and taxpayer accountability, the report pointed out that the aid package is one of the largest Israeli requests for US monies, that it would be the most Israel has requested since it received $3b. to offset the damage caused by Iraqi scuds during the Gulf War, and that the current level of support, at some $2.5b., is more than any other country receives. The report ended with a viewer poll asking: Should US taxpayers be footing the bill for Israel's pullout from Gaza? On Tuesday night, the network reported that 94 percent of the viewers who responded voted no as opposed to only 6% who said yes. As first reported in The Jerusalem Post, $1b. is being considered for development of the Negev and Galilee, an area President George W. Bush has expressed his commitment to help. The rest of the aid would go to military needs, mostly the relocation of bases following the Gaza withdrawal to peripheral areas. Whatever the final sum agreed to by the White House, any US funding would need congressional approval. A special appropriations bill could be expected in the fall for money that would be paid next year, one official said. Despite Israeli media reports that early leaks of the sum under consideration hurt Israel and could reduce the amount of aid offered, an Israeli official close to the issue told the Post the information hadn't affected the talks. Source -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not seeing why we should care so much about Israel. The roadmap to peace will more then likely fail... a good shot but a failure more then likely. Should US taxpayers be footing the bill for Israel's pullout from Gaza? Hell no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayRob303 Posted July 28, 2005 #2 Share Posted July 28, 2005 (edited) I am in total agreement with you! H3LL NO!!! Edited August 1, 2005 by Kismit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted July 28, 2005 #3 Share Posted July 28, 2005 heard somewhere that US funded palestinian radio was broadcasting where/what to target as the israelis moved out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4dplane Posted July 28, 2005 #4 Share Posted July 28, 2005 America should not be helping Israel at all, not money, not food, not weapons. The three, lets call them the “Abrahamic” religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), have been helping, deceiving, fearing, warring with each other for thousands of years. We should stop these Holy Wars (brought on by fear of annihilation) and realize we can all live together on this world. The holy wars and jihads of the world were all created out of fear that ones religion and way of life was going to be destroyed. If we stop threatening each other and start showing compassion for the other ways of life, I am sure we can start what all these gods wanted - peace. Self-defense wins over "thou shall not kill" so let us stop giving people reason to defend themselves and the world will become a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeProphet Posted July 29, 2005 #5 Share Posted July 29, 2005 It's their country.....Why not ? And yes I tend to say that a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted July 29, 2005 #6 Share Posted July 29, 2005 (edited) America should not be helping Israel at all, not money, not food, not weapons. The three, lets call them the “Abrahamic” religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), have been helping, deceiving, fearing, warring with each other for thousands of years. We should stop these Holy Wars (brought on by fear of annihilation) and realize we can all live together on this world. The holy wars and jihads of the world were all created out of fear that ones religion and way of life was going to be destroyed. If we stop threatening each other and start showing compassion for the other ways of life, I am sure we can start what all these gods wanted - peace. Self-defense wins over "thou shall not kill" so let us stop giving people reason to defend themselves and the world will become a better place. 759773[/snapback] 4dplane...I agree with you completely. This is is really where it's at. And Kratos, you are right...Hell No! ...we shouldn't be giving them this much. Edited July 29, 2005 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikl Posted July 29, 2005 #7 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I find it really interesting. When it comes to weapons, the US has no problem giving Israel money so we'll buy weapons from American companies (thus keeping the huge post Cold War weaponry industry of the US up and running). The US also has no problem to tackle Israeli deals with other nations, so those nations will buy american technology instead of israeli one. The US also has no problem using Israeli technology in almost all of it's weapons. Yet when Israel is disengaging from Gaza, mostly because of international pressure (but also because of internal reasons) and economical pressure of the US, the US doesn't want to help financing any of that. Long live the peace advocating policy of the US in the Middle-East . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted July 29, 2005 #8 Share Posted July 29, 2005 (edited) We shouldn't have to keep giving you all this money. There comes a time when Israel has to finance something itself. Pulling out of Gaza would be a good start. We are not your personal bank. .......don't get me wrong, I still love Israel. Edited July 29, 2005 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackleaf Posted July 29, 2005 #9 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Now where will the Israelis get all their lovely Apache helicopters from? After all, the Israeli military is the one in the world that's the most reliant on the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikl Posted July 29, 2005 #10 Share Posted July 29, 2005 (edited) We shouldn't have to keep giving you all this money. There comes a time when Israel has to finance something itself. Pulling out of Gaza would be a good start. We are not your personal bank. Oh believe me we'd like that as well. But you see someone has to keep buy all your weapon. The US is an exporter of only two things: weapons and computers. Becuase the US military doesn't need most of the military produced in the US, someone has to keep buy it. The US have created a special program for that, called FMA - foreign military aid. The problem is, it's not really "aiding" anyone out of good will, but make sure US's allies are dependant on the US and on the same time keep the American weapon industry up and running, giving uncle sam the money it needs to continue to be the world biggest economy. It basically goes like that: the US gives money to any country that it sees right, on the term that this money will be used to buy American weapons produced in America, in American factories, where millions of Americans work. Not only does it give jobs to millions of americans, it makes any competition that might rise from other countries creating their own weapons non-existant. Israel have tried to create it's own airplane - and the americans have threatened with ending FMA because it was far superior to the F-16. Israel is creating it's own tanks - the best in the world, and the US have tried to stop Israel from doing so in the past. Israel used to make it's own rifles and submachine guns - Uzi and the Galil are just few examples. The American FMA made sure that the Galil has virtually disappeared by the early 90s, replaced by the M-16. Israel has now created another assault rifle, the Tavor, far superior to the M-16, but because of US threats it's still out of use. The US also used the FMA to hijack Israeli inventions, such as the unmanned drones, by making it more economical for the IDF to buy weapons made by American companies (thus the IDF had to give the technology to the Americans, so it will be able to buy it from the US, through the FMA). Many technologies used in modern American cruise missiles have been invented by the Israel, and again, hijacked by American companies because of the FMA. So you see Babs - the US has no intentions of ending Foreign Military Aid to Israel. Israel is also used as a field test to many american weapons, because of the constant warfare in which Israel is in since the day it was founded. Thanks to us being what you claim, our "personal bank", millions of Americans have jobs, the US economy is up and running, and Israel and other countries that use the FMA are unable to compete with US companies, because then the US government will threat on cutting on their FMA. Long live the new imperialism . On the other hand, the US apparently refuses to pay for something that might actually give some stability to the region (virtually everyone agrees on it), and which is pretty much pressured on the Sharon administation to do according the Road Map which was headed by the Bush administration. Edited July 29, 2005 by Erikl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4dplane Posted July 30, 2005 #11 Share Posted July 30, 2005 On the other hand, the US apparently refuses to pay for something that might actually give some stability to the region (virtually everyone agrees on it), and which is pretty much pressured on the Sharon administation to do according the Road Map which was headed by the Bush administration. Would you say it would be bad for the American arms business if the world stopped fighting each other? FMA budget http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/aid/aidindex.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikl Posted July 30, 2005 #12 Share Posted July 30, 2005 On the other hand, the US apparently refuses to pay for something that might actually give some stability to the region (virtually everyone agrees on it), and which is pretty much pressured on the Sharon administation to do according the Road Map which was headed by the Bush administration. Would you say it would be bad for the American arms business if the world stopped fighting each other? FMA budget http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/aid/aidindex.htm 762375[/snapback] If there was no need for American weapons, then the US economy will either have to change drastically and start exporting other things (but then they have the Chinese as competetors in those areas), or it would be crippled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted July 30, 2005 #13 Share Posted July 30, 2005 The three, lets call them the “Abrahamic” religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), have been helping, deceiving, fearing, warring with each other for thousands of years. 759773[/snapback] Islam isn't thousands of years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4dplane Posted July 31, 2005 #14 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Thanks Homer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted July 31, 2005 #15 Share Posted July 31, 2005 (edited) Erikl...what 's the new imperialism?....compare it to the old imperialism, please. Edited August 1, 2005 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted August 1, 2005 #16 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Thanks Homer! 764033[/snapback] Your welcome. My factual statement wasn't intended as an insult, but since Islam is less than 2k years, and Christianity is barely 2k years, your statement: "The three, lets call them the “Abrahamic” religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), have been helping, deceiving, fearing, warring with each other for thousands of years." just seems a little misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyr Posted August 1, 2005 #17 Share Posted August 1, 2005 What a unique thread, it even has Babs and Erik going at each other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 1, 2005 #18 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Erikl....I finally had the time to read your posts, really read it, and I understand that you guys are working for your keep. That's good. I see what you are saying about all these new inventions of the Israelis', and that's a good thing, too, but you have to remember the U.S. invented the gun. ......And what's wrong with a country looking out for itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeProphet Posted August 1, 2005 #19 Share Posted August 1, 2005 but you have to remember the U.S. invented the gun. People have been slaughtering each other with guns before the USA even existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted August 1, 2005 #20 Share Posted August 1, 2005 as much as we've stuck our noses in Israel's business, the only part I don't like is that they're moving out at all... that we're paying for some or most or all or none of it doesn't bother me as it's much our fault they're in this mess with our don't do this and you can't do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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