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Frozen body: Can we return from the dead?

cryonics frozen dead

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 01:26 PM

The idea of preserving a person's body at very low temperatures in the hope that it will be restored by future medical technology has been a staple of science fiction. But could cryonics be a genuine way of being brought back to life, years into the future?

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ence/0/23695785

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#2    bassai26

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 01:46 PM

i dont think so...even it can be unfroze slowly and carefully i doubt it will be like as it is. a same brain and a new body would be more possible i think... :whistle:


#3    Wickian

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 02:07 PM

Not unless you can find a way to prevent ice crystals from forming


#4    brlesq1

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 11:15 PM

Agree with Wickian. Ice crystals rupture cells.

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#5    grc

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:17 PM

Maybe a body or a brain could be somehow preserved at a temperature that is just a little above of that which allows the ice crystals to form? (just saying, i'm not an expert)

Edited by grc, 18 August 2013 - 01:18 PM.

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#6    ancient astronaut

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:45 PM

Watch Vanilla Sky and you will have your answer.


#7    pallidin

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:26 PM

View Postbrlesq1, on 17 August 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

Agree with Wickian. Ice crystals rupture cells.

It is my(unprofessional) understanding that a special, non-harmful "antifreeze", is utilized to help prevent cell rupture.

More importantly, though, and PLEASE read this, is that resuscitation after cryogenics HAS been done in lab rodents, BUT, the rodent was fully alive before the cryogenic procedure.

In other words, the resuscitation was only successful if the rodent was alive during "freezing"

Here's the problem:

In the U.S. at least, it is illegal to perform cryogenics on a living human being, as that is legally considered either murder or assisted suicide. Yet, according to the rodent studies, cryogenic resuscitation can only be successful if the animal is alive during the "freezing" procedure. A "catch-22"

A fully dead mouse, then frozen, has never been resuscitated, but the reverse is true for those mice frozen alive with the special injected antifreeze. BTW, the "safe" antifreeze is considered a major, critical advancement.

But the aspect of being "alive" during freezing is also considered to be of utmost importance.

How to get around the "legality", I don't know. Maybe a private facility.

Edited by pallidin, 18 August 2013 - 05:35 PM.


#8    Sundew

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:18 PM

I thought cellular destruction was a big problem with freezing and regeneration. Water is nearly unique among compounds in that it expands when frozen and becomes less dense, rather than contracting like most substances. Since our body is largely water, our cells rupture when frozen. This is one reason we are having trouble resurrecting the Mammoth, most of it's cells have been badly damaged from being frozen. To freeze an entire human, thaw it out and bring it back to life would be difficult indeed.

BTW if water did not become less dense upon freezing, ice would not float and our oceans would have frozen solid from the bottom up, making life on earth impossible.


#9    DieChecker

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:36 PM

Like Pallidin said, I've heard that anti-freeze compounds have been developed that could help prevent the issue with ice crystal damage. That is why I believe we might one day use freezing, just like in various sci-fi movies to send people out into space.

I also agree that a already "dead" person is not going to be easy to resusitate since they are actually dead. The people that freeze just the head have the same issue. They'll have to hope that someone clones them a body, then resusitates their brain and then does a brain transplant. Does not seem likely to me.

It is not like people in the future will be like... "Oh, great, great, great, great grandfather needs twenty years of pay to have a cloned body and brain transplant? Oh, well... just can't afford that."

Unless the frozen body can keep wealth?? And use that to de-thaw....

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#10    Aggie

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:21 PM

View PostWickian, on 17 August 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Not unless you can find a way to prevent ice crystals from forming

How do they freeze embryos, ovules and sperm without killing them?

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#11    Mikko-kun

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:18 AM

I once considered using cryonics if I could had the money for it, but if you believe in reincarnation this doesn't seem a good option: you'd be locked away for who knows how long if this was a success, instead of having a chance to be born again, or to move on. I wonder if pondering this will bring doubt to those considering freezing themselves, or will the will to keep whatever you wish to keep from this life prevail.

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#12    pallidin

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:26 AM

View PostAggie, on 18 August 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

How do they freeze embryos, ovules and sperm without killing them?

a) "A liquid called a cryoprotectant is added to protect the embryos during freezing."

or this... "A method of embryo storage has been developed called ‘vitrification’. This is a fast freeze process – the embryo undergoes instantaneous ‘glass-like’ solidification without the damaging formation of ice crystals (which can occur with the standard method of freezing)."

Source: http://www.hfea.gov.uk/1448.html

Edited by pallidin, 19 August 2013 - 02:27 AM.


#13    DieChecker

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:49 AM

View PostMikko-kun, on 19 August 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

I once considered using cryonics if I could had the money for it, but if you believe in reincarnation this doesn't seem a good option: you'd be locked away for who knows how long if this was a success, instead of having a chance to be born again, or to move on. I wonder if pondering this will bring doubt to those considering freezing themselves, or will the will to keep whatever you wish to keep from this life prevail.
That might be a scary thought for those who are religious... If you are frozen before your spirit/soul/ka/magicsmoke goes whereever it is supposed to go, then is it trapped there? If you could be brought back to life, it would seem to suggest that it does. Or maybe that your spirit is yanked back into your body.

Imagine you're frozen and loaded onto a spaceship leaving for Andromeda at 1/10th of c. And the ship gets there in like 2 million years. And then the ship auto-wakes your body and BAM!!, you're back in your body after 2 million years in Heaven. :innocent: That would be Hell.  :devil:  If that happened you'd probably have a instance of 100% insanity upon waking from cryo.

Edited by DieChecker, 19 August 2013 - 02:50 AM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#14    Erowin

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:52 AM

I don't think it would work if the person is already dead. Once you're dead, you don't usually come back. Being dead for a few hours even will degrade brain cells.


#15    Aggie

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:43 AM

View Postpallidin, on 19 August 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

a) "A liquid called a cryoprotectant is added to protect the embryos during freezing."

or this... "A method of embryo storage has been developed called ‘vitrification’. This is a fast freeze process – the embryo undergoes instantaneous ‘glass-like’ solidification without the damaging formation of ice crystals (which can occur with the standard method of freezing)."

Source: http://www.hfea.gov.uk/1448.html

Thanks!

I wonder if the above could be used in whole bodies to freeze them.

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