EU seal ban challenged by Canada

[keithisco]

I for one applaud the EU for this. Synthetic fur (freely available anywhere), seal meat (a luxury item in Japan) and Seal Oil - widely available alternatives to it.

Where is the need for bludgeoning these pup seals? Nature, and killer whales - Polar Bears, will address any over - population concerns, and they will use the animals for genuine dietary needs, as will the last few remaining genuine Inuit (I suspect many actually work at Wal-Mart or somewhere similar).

Time to end this slaughter I think

Source: Aunty BEEB

The EU has agreed to ban the import of seal products - prompting a challenge from Canada which culls hundreds of thousands of seals each year.

European foreign ministers agreed on the ban following years of appeals from animal rights campaigners.

Products from traditional hunts by indigenous peoples in Canada and Greenland will be exempt from the ban.

Canada says the decision is not based on science and it will challenge it at the World Trade Organization (WTO).

The EU ministers' decision follows a vote by the European Parliament in May to ban the sale of all seal products across the bloc's 27 nations.

Ministers said on Monday that the ban was being put in place "in response to concerns about the animal welfare aspects of seal hunting practices".

Every year Canada kills about 300,000 seals off its east coast - the biggest such hunt in the world.

Hunters usually shoot the seals or bludgeon them to death with spiked clubs. The animals' pelts, fat and meat are traded.

Anti-hunt campaigners say the practice is inhumane, and claim that some seals are skinned while still conscious

.

[acidhead]

In 2005, the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) commissioned the Independent Veterinarians Working Group Report. With reference to video evidence, the report states: "Perception of the seal hunt seems to be based largely on emotion, and on visual images that are often difficult even for experienced observers to interpret with certainty. While a hakapik strike on the skull of a seal appears brutal, it is humane if it achieves rapid, irreversible loss of consciousness leading to death."

According to the DFO, the harp seal population is now stable at about five million animals, three times as many seals as in the 1970s. They say that Canada's annual quota of 325,000 harp seals, and an additional 10,000 harp seal allowance for new Aboriginal initiatives, personal use, and Arctic hunts, does not significantly impact the harp seal population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_hunting#Canada

***********

People cry over the seal hunt because they look cute.

People rarely question the beef or pork on their dinner plate.

Or the rich, deep red Sockeye Salmon meat in a restaurant.... (I catch mine, for FREE, in the river)

[Corp]

Well said acidhead.

wow that felt weird

[The Silver Thong]

The EU/UN tyrants have no right to tell any country what to do.

Canada should spit in the globalist's face.

Canada has been doing that for years LOL.

The seal hunt isn't really a Canadian thing anyway it's an aboriginal right that has been practiced long befor whiteman showed up. I have never seen a seal fur nor tasted seal meat let alone seen it in a super market. I agree the clubbing part isn't the most visually accepted form of death but thats how it was done befor rifles crossed the ocean. I would like to try seal meat but it's not high on my list nor would I have a clue where to find any.

[keithisco]

The EU/UN tyrants have no right to tell any country what to do.

Canada should spit in the globalist's face.

I hope you feel better now, a rant a day keeps the Doctor away

Perhaps you would like to employ a little reason now and tell us what makes the EU a tyrant?

Also, and listen carefully to this, The EU is not telling anyone what to do, it has simply BANNED all seal products from entering any EU state, as is its right.

27 nation states in the EU 50 States in the USA, but you brand us as Globalists??? Reality check needed I think

Edited July 28, 2009 by keithisco

[The Silver Thong]

I hope you feel better now, a rant a day keeps the Doctor away

Perhaps you would like to employ a little reason now and tell us what makes the EU a tyrant?

Also, and listen carefully to this, The EU is not telling anyone what to do, it has simply BANNED all seal products from entering any EU state, as is its right.

27 nation states in the EU 50 States in the USA, but you brand us as Globalists??? Reality check needed I think

Well come on we are somewhat globalists Canada included

The seal hunt can go or stay I don't give a rats butt about it. However if Canada were to ban the seal hunt we would be charged with infringing on a small fraction of Aboriginal rights. Canada has stripped it's native people of enough rights imo. If the white man hadn't killed off millions and millions of Buffalo the first nations would still be hunting them. Is that a wrong perspective ? even if the Indians used traditional methods such as running them off cliffs many not dieing right away. Or spearing them or an arrow miss placed and the animal dieing slowly after it had run off. The seal hunt is a PETA wet dream come on get over it people.

[Funky Poacher]

People cry over the seal hunt because they look cute.

People rarely question the beef or pork on their dinner plate.

Those people are called morons (and hypocrites). Humanity is full of them. Old news. But I've come to terms with the fact that people just don't care about the animals, ultimately, cute or no.

Everytime I hear about the seal hunt, I shake my head. But it could be worse. I could live in the States. As for infringing on aboriginal rights... it's sad, but this is how humanity has progressed. People take over peoples' land. You can't use seals as a bargaining chip.

[__Kratos__]

In 2005, the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) commissioned the Independent Veterinarians Working Group Report. With reference to video evidence, the report states: "Perception of the seal hunt seems to be based largely on emotion, and on visual images that are often difficult even for experienced observers to interpret with certainty. While a hakapik strike on the skull of a seal appears brutal, it is humane if it achieves rapid, irreversible loss of consciousness leading to death."

According to the DFO, the harp seal population is now stable at about five million animals, three times as many seals as in the 1970s. They say that Canada's annual quota of 325,000 harp seals, and an additional 10,000 harp seal allowance for new Aboriginal initiatives, personal use, and Arctic hunts, does not significantly impact the harp seal population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_hunting#Canada

***********

People cry over the seal hunt because they look cute.

People rarely question the beef or pork on their dinner plate.

Or the rich, deep red Sockeye Salmon meat in a restaurant.... (I catch mine, for FREE, in the river)

"If" being the keyword here. You can't honestly tell me that beating an animal to death with a club and/or spike is humane. Yes, the majority of the hunt takes place with guns but even then shooting from a moving boat to a moving target on a moving ice flow only leaves them wounded to fall into the water and die a miserable death.

Canada loses so much more then it ever gains with this hunt. By hundreds of millions each year in protests, resources to keep the hunt going and to watch the hunt. Compared to the stupid 12 million or whatever the small villages make. It would be cheaper for all Canadians to just give those villages the money in cash each year rather then keep this hunt going that only hurts everybody.

That's not really true. I'm against all animal cruelty, and would like to see animals killed humanely instead of being beaten to death or be shot unsafely. I mean, when you knock your salmon over the head with your club you always hold the fish down with your other hand right? Instead of just going at it like a psycho hoping that you'll get it on the first swing?

I think keithisco is right here. There's no reason with all the other alternatives out there that this needs to keep happening.

[The Silver Thong]

"If" being the keyword here. You can't honestly tell me that beating an animal to death with a club and/or spike is humane. Yes, the majority of the hunt takes place with guns but even then shooting from a moving boat to a moving target on a moving ice flow only leaves them wounded to fall into the water and die a miserable death.

Canada loses so much more then it ever gains with this hunt. By hundreds of millions each year in protests, resources to keep the hunt going and to watch the hunt. Compared to the stupid 12 million or whatever the small villages make. It would be cheaper for all Canadians to just give those villages the money in cash each year rather then keep this hunt going that only hurts everybody.

That's not really true. I'm against all animal cruelty, and would like to see animals killed humanely instead of being beaten to death or be shot unsafely. I mean, when you knock your salmon over the head with your club you always hold the fish down with your other hand right? Instead of just going at it like a psycho hoping that you'll get it on the first swing?

I think keithisco is right here. There's no reason with all the other alternatives out there that this needs to keep happening.

Quote

"Canada loses so much more then it ever gains with this hunt. By hundreds of millions each year in protests, resources to keep the hunt going and to watch the hunt. Compared to the stupid 12 million or whatever the small villages make. It would be cheaper for all Canadians to just give those villages the money in cash each year rather then keep this hunt going that only hurts everybody."

You want Canada to buy the aboriginals rights that they have had for thousands of years? I thought you were about protecting rights of a people. You pride yourself as a hunter yet loose yourself in what you claim should be free or a right. You don't care about culture unless it's your own. These people have a right and for use to take it away would be what Kratos what. You are a protector of rights so come on man. Canada is not willing to do that.

I here by take away your right to hunt Kratos so there, suck it up you poor little seal pup. Give me a break and the bleeding heart, more Iraq's more Afghans more Pakistani more Africans more Asians more Americans have been killed in far more inhuman ways than seals in the last year so really go join the French foreign legion or PETA for crap sake it's old tierd and doesn't mean schitt unless you just like to Harp. I was referring to people not seals

I Herby declare all sonar subs and shipping vassals illegal due to there mass whale and dauphin beaching around the globe. I Herby declare all weapons testing on the planet banned because of radiation. I Herby declare the U>S> banned from firing depleted uranium at civilians for the hundreds of years of birth defects to result. Get the hell off it and worry about something that matters or at least look in a mirror and see the devastation your nation causes befor you attack another. The Harp seal population is no different than any other that has a population of over 5 million. Or is Tuna to tasty to stop eating or is what the Exxon Valdez spilled to worthy to concern ones self about keeping a healthy fishing market.

You want sea food well you better stop destroying the ocean or taking control of the rat. Seals hurt the fish market and when there numbers are to high what do you do control them. Maybe as an animal activist as you claim to be you should try and put a stop to the rat control that seems to devastate farmers. Damn the rats don't need to be poisoned trapped by in humane traps stepped on and run over by farm equipment. I say we put a stop to your nations eradication of a mammal called the rat. A very smart mammal to say the least. How many ways do people kill rats? Oh thats right, rats ain't cute.

Best of all I herby declare the sale of all weapons to third world nations illegal and the exploit of human sacrafice as a crime to those who sell such weapons. Kinda puts America out of business don't it.

That was for you Bill Hill

Edited July 28, 2009 by The Silver Thong

[faraway]

Seals hurt the fish market and when there numbers are to high

You're ****ing joking right? You have any idea the damage Humans are doing to the fish market?

[__Kratos__]

Quote

"Canada loses so much more then it ever gains with this hunt. By hundreds of millions each year in protests, resources to keep the hunt going and to watch the hunt. Compared to the stupid 12 million or whatever the small villages make. It would be cheaper for all Canadians to just give those villages the money in cash each year rather then keep this hunt going that only hurts everybody."

You want Canada to buy the aboriginals rights that they have had for thousands of years? I thought you were about protecting rights of a people. You pride yourself as a hunter yet loose yourself in what you claim should be free or a right. You don't care about culture unless it's your own. These people have a right and for use to take it away would be what Kratos what. You are a protector of rights so come on man. Canada is not willing to do that.

I here by take away your right to hunt Kratos so there, suck it up you poor little seal pup. Give me a break and the bleeding heart, more Iraq's more Afghans more Pakistani more Africans more Asians more Americans have been killed in far more inhuman ways than seals in the last year so really go join the French foreign legion or PETA for crap sake it's old tierd and doesn't mean schitt unless you just like to Harp. I was referring to people not seals

I Herby declare all sonar subs and shipping vassals illegal due to there mass whale and dauphin beaching around the globe. I Herby declare all weapons testing on the planet banned because of radiation. I Herby declare the U>S> banned from firing depleted uranium at civilians for the hundreds of years of birth defects to result. Get the hell off it and worry about something that matters or at least look in a mirror and see the devastation your nation causes befor you attack another. The Harp seal population is no different than any other that has a population of over 5 million. Or is Tuna to tasty to stop eating or is what the Exxon Valdez spilled to worthy to concern ones self about keeping a healthy fishing market.

You want sea food well you better stop destroying the ocean or taking control of the rat. Seals hurt the fish market and when there numbers are to high what do you do control them. Maybe as an animal activist as you claim to be you should try and put a stop to the rat control that seems to devastate farmers. Damn the rats don't need to be poisoned trapped by in humane traps stepped on and run over by farm equipment. I say we put a stop to your nations eradication of a mammal called the rat. A very smart mammal to say the least. How many ways do people kill rats? Oh thats right, rats ain't cute.

Best of all I herby declare the sale of all weapons to third world nations illegal and the exploit of human sacrafice as a crime to those who sell such weapons. Kinda puts America out of business don't it.

That was for you Bill Hill

I do but I'm also fond of animals not getting beaten to death. There has to be a balance and right now there's nothing for it. There's really no way to humanely kill them. And it does cost all Canadians millions in protests, lost jobs and stunts those areas in a cycle instead of making progress. The seal pelts prices have been dropping and it's making life for them even harder. They need different job training or something to spark them up.

I do care about cultures, there are reasonable limits to my caring however. Dancing around a fire singing to the gods for good blessings is fine by me (beats me if they do that, just a wild example), but taking a spike and beating a seal to death with it is unreasonable to me.

How I hunt and those those people 'hunt' isn't really the same. I go for a quick clean kill always. I respect nature in the cycle of life. But that doesn't mean I'm going to support some inhumane crap that gets the job done yet.

Despite what you may think, I'm not attacking Canada solely here. Just this story relates to Canada. I was cursing Alaska earlier tonight about the wolves being shot from helicopters and that doesn't make me anymore anti-American then anti-Canadian for not wanting seal pups being beaten to death.

As for your life of crappy things in the world, there are reasonable things happening on and others not so much. Not much I can do but complain about them like I do with seal hunting. But the logic I should focus on them instead of seal hunting because you don't like it, well you'll just have go with it or ignore it.

Seals have lived there for longer then any human has for years and years... The fish population is still there. As for fishing, humans should see that we're not alone on this rock and should moderate our intake. Overfishing is a huge crime around the big fishing spots.

As for rats, never had them or killed one. I have had mice though... I bought a humane live trap for them and then I released them outside my house down in the woods.

Weapons, well really... Just another distraction away from the real argument here. You argue that because weapons are bad and are tolerated, that something else horrible should just be accepted to? But at the end of the day, no matter how many other straw men you build seal hunting is still going to be a sadistic inhumane sport that has no purpose in today's world and still hurts everyday Canadians if they agree or disagree with the hunt.

[The Silver Thong]

You're ****ing joking right? You have any idea the damage Humans are doing to the fish market?

No, are you bloody joking? In no way did I ever say Humans were not the main cause of smaller fish populations. I stated that a higher seal population hurts the fisheries not that man is not directly conected to that sheesh

[The Silver Thong]

I do but I'm also fond of animals not getting beaten to death. There has to be a balance and right now there's nothing for it. There's really no way to humanely kill them. And it does cost all Canadians millions in protests, lost jobs and stunts those areas in a cycle instead of making progress. The seal pelts prices have been dropping and it's making life for them even harder. They need different job training or something to spark them up.

I do care about cultures, there are reasonable limits to my caring however. Dancing around a fire singing to the gods for good blessings is fine by me (beats me if they do that, just a wild example), but taking a spike and beating a seal to death with it is unreasonable to me.

How I hunt and those those people 'hunt' isn't really the same. I go for a quick clean kill always. I respect nature in the cycle of life. But that doesn't mean I'm going to support some inhumane crap that gets the job done yet.

Despite what you may think, I'm not attacking Canada solely here. Just this story relates to Canada. I was cursing Alaska earlier tonight about the wolves being shot from helicopters and that doesn't make me anymore anti-American then anti-Canadian for not wanting seal pups being beaten to death.

As for your life of crappy things in the world, there are reasonable things happening on and others not so much. Not much I can do but complain about them like I do with seal hunting. But the logic I should focus on them instead of seal hunting because you don't like it, well you'll just have go with it or ignore it.

Seals have lived there for longer then any human has for years and years... The fish population is still there. As for fishing, humans should see that we're not alone on this rock and should moderate our intake. Overfishing is a huge crime around the big fishing spots.

As for rats, never had them or killed one. I have had mice though... I bought a humane live trap for them and then I released them outside my house down in the woods.

Weapons, well really... Just another distraction away from the real argument here. You argue that because weapons are bad and are tolerated, that something else horrible should just be accepted to? But at the end of the day, no matter how many other straw men you build seal hunting is still going to be a sadistic inhumane sport that has no purpose in today's world and still hurts everyday Canadians if they agree or disagree with the hunt.

I've said this befor. I'm not a pro seal hunt guy it's just the way it is for a select few of Canada's indigenous people. I personally could never go up to a seal and club it. Not to my liking but it's not up to me nor most Canadians. It's a right. Do I think some Canadians should have different rights not really but again I'm not an authority on native right issues. Canada would be nailed with human right violations if we took those rights away.

It's about the law not what I think. It does cost Canada a lot to allow the seal hunt but as some American would say we aren't out to win a popularity contest. It's not about Canada it's about certain rights Canada has left for the natives of this land.

If hunting seals was more humane using poison tip darts I would be for that but again it's way out of my hands. Or the EU's or even PETA's so I'm not going to go there.

Edited July 28, 2009 by The Silver Thong

[Corp]

I never got the money arguement. If it really costs untold millions to keep the hunt going then the government would just stop it. After all they can use that money for better things than vote buying in small northern towns. Like using it to buy votes in Quebec cities

[faraway]

No, are you bloody joking? In no way did I ever say Humans were not the main cause of smaller fish populations. I stated that a higher seal population hurts the fisheries not that man is not directly conected to that sheesh

The cause of smaller fish populations? We are literally emptying the seas and destroying an ecosystem. If anything needs culling, it's not seals.

[The Silver Thong]

The cause of smaller fish populations? We are literally emptying the seas and destroying an ecosystem. If anything needs culling, it's not seals.

I totally agree with ya man. We are rapping the seas and oceans and it's pathetic. I just don't see why people get so bent out of shape over seals. Yes clubbing them is a crappy way to do it but who am I to tell the Inuit what to do?

Paul McCartney needs to get a better hobby IMO

Hell, look at the Queens representative having a little taste, thought this was funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnmqvTiveGs

Edited July 28, 2009 by The Silver Thong

[__Kratos__]

I've said this befor. I'm not a pro seal hunt guy it's just the way it is for a select few of Canada's indigenous people. I personally could never go up to a seal and club it. Not to my liking but it's not up to me nor most Canadians. It's a right. Do I think some Canadians should have different rights not really but again I'm not an authority on native right issues. Canada would be nailed with human right violations if we took those rights away.

It's about the law not what I think. It does cost Canada a lot to allow the seal hunt but as some American would say we aren't out to win a popularity contest. It's not about Canada it's about certain rights Canada has left for the natives of this land.

If hunting seals was more humane using poison tip darts I would be for that but again it's way out of my hands. Or the EU's or even PETA's so I'm not going to go there.

How is it a right to inhumanely kill animals? Cultures change and this is one of those things that should change. They've changed before and will keep doing so.

The law isn't always right, you can't honestly tell me that you agree with every single law on the books in Canada. Native rights also have to be balanced with animal rights. Seals were there long before the natives where as well, so maybe you should take the side of the seals beating native children to death with their flippers?

But the EU supports the natives...

Only products ''from hunts traditionally conducted by Inuit and other indigenous communities to ensure their subsistence'' would be permitted under the ban.

Source

Costs you a lot more then you think. Costs your country billions now, costs your citizens jobs and business. Can you really justify that harm to your country for a hunt that nets pretty much nothing compared to the whole losses to Canada each year?

I never got the money arguement. If it really costs untold millions to keep the hunt going then the government would just stop it. After all they can use that money for better things than vote buying in small northern towns. Like using it to buy votes in Quebec cities

The millions Ottawa spends subsidizing the seal hunt

Whether you think killing seals is a bad thing or a good thing, whether you think it barbaric or humane, you should oppose Canada’s annual seal hunt.

According to Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) the justification for the hunt is to provide economic opportunities for Canada’s coastal communities. Last year, according to its Web site, this entire economic opportunity amounted to $12-million, the value of all seal pelts landed. They fetched on average $52 a pelt. According to evidence given to Parliament’s standing committee on fisheries and oceans on Nov. 6, 2006, half of that is eaten up by expenses, so we are talking, at most, $6-million that flowed to the sealers themselves: one-tenth of 1% of Newfoundland’s GDP. (This year it will be even less, because pelts of three to four week old “beaters” that make up 95% of the catch are selling for between $6 and $33.)

This $6-million costs Canadians at least 10 times as much and does so year after year. First of all, there is the cost of deploying the Canadian Coast Guard (CCG) to the seal hunt for seven weeks each year. Last year it involved 10 vessels, many of them icebreakers, helicopters and patrol planes. Nobody in government knows, even less wants to know, what this costs. DFO claims it costs nothing because the boats and aircraft are owned and the crews are on salary. Does it cost nothing to put out fires in Toronto because it owns the trucks and firefighters aren’t on piecework? Toronto hires firefighters and buys trucks based on the anticipated number and severity of fires. A significant part of what CCG does is rescue sealers. Some 24% of its 2003 fishing vessel rescues derived from this hunt. Without it, CCG’s annual budget could be significantly reduced. One hunt-deployed icebreaker, the Amundsen, costs $50,000 per day to operate in winter. Given DFO’s lack of transparency, one can only estimate the annual CCG cost attributable to the hunt at $5-million.

More of the article here: Link

------------------------------------

Canadians as a whole get royally screwed by this hunt financially.

Edited July 28, 2009 by __Kratos__

[Fluffybunny]

At what point does a culture need to change? Mind you, I am Navajo and we have our own odd traditions, but I see an entire country bending over backwards to accommodate something rather vile; I wonder what it would take for people to say "no, sorry, you need to step into this century and our rules..." Cannibalism? Sacrificial murder? What exactly is the line with people that makes it ok, just because they have done it for a long time?

[Bill Hill]

That was for you Bill Hill

T'was a good argue for... I salute you sir...

I cannot do the infamous Bill Hill ding dong

However, I can post a picture of a cute seal puppy...

finger hovering..

As for the inuits, I can respect its part of their culture..

er The bunch of racists..I mean, First nation nationalists.. sounds like a name Hitler himself would come up with..

That was for acidhead..

[Wickian]

Where is the need for bludgeoning these pup seals? Nature, and killer whales - Polar Bears, will address any over - population concerns, and they will use the animals for genuine dietary needs, as will the last few remaining genuine Inuit (I suspect many actually work at Wal-Mart or somewhere similar).

Don't forget Dolphins. They play catch with living baby seals just for fun.

[The Silver Thong]

T'was a good argue for... I salute you sir...

I cannot do the infamous Bill Hill ding dong

However, I can post a picture of a cute seal puppy...

finger hovering..

As for the inuits, I can respect its part of their culture..

er The bunch of racists..I mean, First nation nationalists.. sounds like a name Hitler himself would come up with..

That was for acidhead..

The Inuit have there means of making money the same as anyone else. To call the seal harvest inhumane ok it can be but then one just has to turn on there local news to see just how inhumane we are to people and animals that are farmed and cultivated to see that the seal hunt is but nothing more than a podium for morons.

Hmmm maybe the Inuit should put up barbed wire fences and feeding troughs so they can get the bleeding hearts off there back LOL

Damn, now I want a seal steak hmmm.......... damit, Safeway and Costco are freash out LOL

Edited August 23, 2009 by The Silver Thong

[Mr Honeybadger]

People forget that seals are just animals. They are no different than mice, rats, pigs, worms, raccoons, chickens, or fleas and ticks.

I know they might have those sweet darling puppy-dog eyes. But cry me a river. Their deaths are nothing that humans should lose any sleep over.

You see, in my opinion humans are like way up here. And animals are way down there.

[Michelle]

The Inuit have there means of making money the same as anyone else. To call the seal harvest inhumane ok it can be but then one just has to turn on there local news to see just how inhumane we are to people and animals that are farmed and cultivated to see that the seal hunt is but nothing more than a podium for morons.

Heeeeey, I resemble that remark.

Fox hunts used to be a tradition, too. Just because something has been done for years doean't mean it's right. I like to think that people are getting past barbaric ways.

[The Silver Thong]

Heeeeey, I resemble that remark.

Fox hunts used to be a tradition, too. Just because something has been done for years doean't mean it's right. I like to think that people are getting past barbaric ways.

Are there 5 million fox's in England or 5 million of any animal in the UK besides cats and dogs. Barbaric yes to me and you but not to the Inuit. I think it's rather barbaric that we can go to the supermarket and see three isles of dead animals wrapped in plastic waiting for us to buy it and eat it. Most people don't have a clue as to how there roast chicken came from an egg to there plate with a side of mashed potato's LOL Cruel hmmmm not really in the grand scheme of things if you ask me.

Now, would you care to join me for some lovely seal steak darlin

[Bill Hill]

Fascinating animals.

The baby seal pup's fur, not only provides camouflage but also keeps them warm..

Just thought I'd share that fact..

Edited August 24, 2009 by Bill Hill