New Development in Apollo Photos

[grimsituation6]

So I was watching a video recently on the Apollo missions, and the original videos and images shown to the public are actually videos of the TV screen used in mission control, could this explain the mysterious glass domes and structures supposedly in the lunar images? Lol could the glass dome be just that, a glass dome of the TV screen? post your thoughts...

[grimsituation6]

short sighted apollo engineers didn't see the importance of recording the original raw data or images, and thus the images we see are re-photographed, as scanners copiers weren't a popular tool at the time.

Edited April 19, 2016 by grimsituation6

[ChrLzs]

So I was watching a video recently on the Apollo missions

Care to name the video?

and the original videos and images shown to the public are actually videos of the TV screen used in mission control

For a small portion of the video imagery, yes, that's correct. This was in the very early days of video/TV technology (they almost didn't telecast it at all!)

could this explain the mysterious glass domes and structures supposedly in the lunar images?

What? Glass domes and structures in Apollo images? Geez, don't you think the thing to do there is POST the images to which you refer?

Lol could the glass dome be just that, a glass dome of the TV screen? post your thoughts...

Thought One - there is no glass dome to explain. If you claim otherwise show the picture.

Thought Two - You can't tell the difference between a screen reflection or distortion and a glass dome?

and then you follow it with:

short sighted apollo engineers didn't see the importance of recording the original raw data or images

HOGWASH. They did in fact record it and used the best technology available at the time to make copies. NO footage was lost. It was all recorded, and most of it (eg the Hasselblad images, and the movies on film) is in much higher quality than the live transmissions, as for those they were pushing TV transmission technology to its absolute limit.

If this is a vague handwave to the tapes that were overwritten by necessity, yes, it would have been nice to have kept those tapes but ONLY because we have some new technology that could have extracted slightly higher quality from the 'first steps' tv recording. That's called Hindsight.. It was an unfortunate decision NASA had to make - lose new data or overwrite old already duplicated data. The choice was obvious.

and thus the images we see are re-photographed, as scanners copiers weren't a popular tool at the time.

Incorrect - the original negatives, film and video data is all still intact, with the only exception being as above, and the film data has indeed been rescanned several times as the technology got better. You really should research stuff a little deeper than just watching some unnamed video.

Where on earth did you go to research this?

[ChrLzs]

Gee, I hope grim is OK - he has disappeared inexplicably. I'll send him a PM and I'm sure if he's still alive, he will back any minute to defend the claims...

[JesseCuster]

nm

Edited April 22, 2016 by JesseCuster

[ChrLzs]

...No response to my pm, and yet has been posting elsewhere.. Seems grim just doesn't want to return here.

Me, I'd admit I was wrong and learn from my errors.... Apollo deniers don't roll that way.

[SHaYap]

Googles seems to have other ideas ~

Apollo 11 missing tapes

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Apollo 11 missing tapes refers to Apollo 11's slow-scan television (SSTV) telecast recorded in its raw format on telemetry data tape during the time of the first Moonlanding in 1969. The recordings were discovered to be "missing" after a team of retired NASA employees and contractors tried to locate the tapes in the early 2000s. The data tapes were recorded as a backup in case the live television broadcasts failed for any reason. In order to broadcast the SSTV transmission on standard television, NASA ground receiving stations performed real-time scan conversion to the NTSC television format. The moonwalk's converted video signal was broadcast live around the world on July 21, 1969 (UTC). At the time, the NTSC broadcast was recorded on many videotapes and kinescope films: they were never missing.

The search was sparked when several still photographs appeared in the late 1990s that showed the superior-looking raw SSTV transmission on ground station monitors. The research team conducted a multi-year investigation in the hopes of finding the most pristine and usable versions of the moonwalk. If the original SSTV format tapes were to be found, more modern digital technology could make a higher-quality conversion, yielding better images than those originally seen. The researchers discovered that the tapes containing the raw unprocessed Apollo 11 SSTV signal were erased and reused by NASA in the early 1980s. This was according to NASA's procedures, as they were facing a major data tape shortage at that time.

Although the researchers never found the telemetry tapes they were looking for, they did discover the best visual quality NTSC videotapes as well as super 8 movie film taken of a video monitor in Australia, showing the SSTV transmission before it was converted. These visual elements were processed in 2009, as part of a NASA approved restoration project of the first Moonwalk. At a 2009 news conference in Washington, D.C., the research team released its findings regarding the tapes' disappearance. They also partially released newly enhanced footage obtained during the search. Lowry Digital completed the full Moonwalk restoration project in late 2009.

• wiki link
  

~

Houston, We Erased The Apollo 11 Tapes

7:46

July 16, 20095:07 AM ET

Heard on Morning Edition

An exhaustive, three-year search for some tapes that contained the original footage of the Apollo 11 moonwalk has concluded that they were probably destroyed during a period when NASA was erasing old magnetic tapes and reusing them to record satellite data.

"We're all saddened that they're not there. We all wish we had 20-20 hindsight," says Dick Nafzger, a TV specialist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland, who helped lead the search team.

"I don't think anyone in the NASA organization did anything wrong," Nafzger says. "I think it slipped through the cracks, and nobody's happy about it."

`

• npr org link
  

~

Technology | Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:15pm EDT

Related: Science, Australia

Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits

WASHINGTON | By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

The original recordings of the first humans landing on the moon 40 years ago were erased and re-used, but newly restored copies of the original broadcast look even better, NASA officials said on Thursday.

NASA released the first glimpses of a complete digital make-over of the original landing footage that clarifies the blurry and grainy images of Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walking on the surface of the moon.

The full set of recordings, being cleaned up by Burbank, California-based Lowry Digital, will be released in September. The preview is available at www.nasa.gov.

NASA admitted in 2006 that no one could find the original video recordings of the July 20, 1969, landing.

Since then, Richard Nafzger, an engineer at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland, who oversaw television processing at the ground-tracking sites during the Apollo 11 mission, has been looking for them.

The good news is he found where they went. The bad news is they were part of a batch of 200,000 tapes that were degaussed -- magnetically erased -- and re-used to save money.

"The goal was live TV," Nafzger told a news conference.

"We should have had a historian running around saying 'I don't care if you are ever going to use them -- we are going to keep them'," he said.

~

• reuters link
  

~

The Saga Of the Lost Space Tapes

By Marc Kaufman

***

Millions of television viewers around the world saw those fuzzy, moving images and were amazed, even mesmerized. What they didn't know was that the Apollo 11 camera had actually sent back video far crisper and more dramatic -- spectacular images that, remarkably, only a handful of people have ever seen.

NASA engineers who did view them knew what the public was missing, but the relatively poor picture quality of the broadcast images never became an issue because the landing was such a triumph. The original, high-quality lunar tapes were soon stored and forgotten.

Only in recent years was the agency reminded of what it once had -- clean and crisp first-man-on-the-moon video images that could be especially valuable now that NASA is planning a return trip.

About 36 years after the tapes went into storage, NASA was suddenly eager to have them. There was just one problem: The tapes were nowhere to be found.

***

• washington post link
  

~

[Waspie_Dwarf]

This topic has very little to do with space exploration and would be a better fit in the conspiracies section, so I am going to move it.

[Peter B]

Of course, there's also colour video footage of the astronauts on the Moon. It was recorded by a small film camera called the DAC (Data Acquisition Camera) mounted inside the LM cabin and pointed out the LMP's window. You can see footage of Armstrong's first steps here:

If you watch the footage, two things become apparent. Firstly, Armstrong had his gold visor up: if you watch carefully you can see his face through the clear bubble helmet. Secondly, during the climb down the ladder and for the first few minutes, Armstrong was tied to a rope. That way Aldrin could help him climb back up the ladder if something went wrong, or the surface was unstable, or whatever.

Just before Aldrin left the LM to join Armstrong on the surface of the Moon, he changed the settings so the camera recorded fewer frames per second. As a result we can see a fair bit of the first Moon walk, just in a jerky fashion thanks to the low frame rate.

Having said all that, just because the TV coverage of Apollo 11 wasn't what we might hope for says nothing about the reality of the Apollo missions. The quality of TV coverage of the later missions, particularly Apollos 15, 16 and 17 is just superb by comparison with Apollo 11.

[Czero 101]

Care to name the video?

Willing to bet it was Brad Meltzer's Lost History. Here's an excerpt...

Cz

[ChrLzs]

Third eye, what was the point of those reams of news stories, given that I already explained above, quite succinctly:

NO footage was lost. It was all recorded, and most of it (eg the Hasselblad images, and the movies on film) is in much higher quality than the live transmissions, as for those they were pushing TV transmission technology to its absolute limit.

If this is a vague handwave to the tapes that were overwritten by necessity, yes, it would have been nice to have kept those tapes but ONLY because we have some new technology that could have extracted slightly higher quality from the 'first steps' tv recording. That's called Hindsight.. It was an unfortunate decision NASA had to make - lose new data or overwrite old already duplicated data. The choice was obvious.

Is there something about that you are disputing? Please be specific.

Indeed, can you please cut to the chase:

1. Do you think Apollo was faked?

2. In what way does the erasure of tapes that had already had the data taken off them, point at fakery?

[SHaYap]

@ChrLzs

Why do you say I was disputing ? I proposed the Headlines where the confusion may have stemmed from.

No , I don't think Apollo was faked , but I think the OP was referring to the photos being faked, which to a point it does not sound unreasonable.

Some of the photos released subsequently were not the original landing photos but of copies made from local display transmission of the event.

~

[ChrLzs]

@ChrLzs

Why do you say I was disputing ? I proposed the Headlines where the confusion may have stemmed from.

While those headlines were sensationalised, I don't see how they supported/confused the OP, nor disputed what I said... And as you couldn't be bothered putting in your own comments... I generally don't mindread..

As I stated correctly, tapes were overwritten, but NASA had transcribed the data to other media before that happened. Nothing was 'lost', all that happened is that we were unable to use newer technology to look again at the data and get a slightly higher quality result.

And anyway, you now contradict yourself by saying this:

No , I don't think Apollo was faked , but I think the OP was referring to the photos being faked, which to a point it does not sound unreasonable.

I'm sorry, but that could only be said by someone completely unfamiliar with the unprecedentedly accurate and comprehensive historical record. There's no shame in being unfamiliar with an event, unless you then start tossing out silly and insulting conspiracy theories. It's NOT 'funny' to slap those in the face who were involved in the achievement. Shame on you.

Some of the photos released subsequently were not the original landing photos but of copies made from local display transmission of the event.

OK, you will now please cite this - which photos, done by whom and how were they presented?

Edited April 26, 2016 by ChrLzs

[SHaYap]

While those headlines were sensationalised, I don't see how they supported/confused the OP, nor disputed what I said... And as you couldn't be bothered putting in your own comments... I generally don't mindread..

You mean those headlines were lies ?

THe original recordings were 'lost' , that's what I mean that will confuse many ...

As I stated correctly, tapes were overwritten, but NASA had transcribed the data to other media before that happened. Nothing was 'lost', all that happened is that we were unable to use newer technology to look again at the data and get a slightly higher quality result.

And anyway, you now contradict yourself by saying this:

I'm sorry, but that could only be said by someone completely unfamiliar with the unprecedentedly accurate and comprehensive historical record. There's no shame in being unfamiliar with an event, unless you then start tossing out silly and insulting conspiracy theories. It's NOT 'funny' to slap those in the face who were involved in the achievement. Shame on you.

Yeah , if you really wanna press that , I have a set of 'original' Moon Landing photographs I can sell you for a pretty penny ~ 'faked' as in not the original prints or RAW data ... you wanna play into this CT non CT bickering you go right ahead ... what I am saying has nothing to do with what you were saying ...

No Sir ... shame on you

OK, you will now please cite this - which photos, done by whom and how were they presented?

Yo go on your merry CT hunt ... have fun ...

~

[ChrLzs]

Yeah , if you really wanna press that , I have a set of 'original' Moon Landing photographs I can sell you for a pretty penny ~ 'faked' as in not the original prints or RAW data ... you wanna play into this CT non CT bickering you go right ahead ... what I am saying has nothing to do with what you were saying ...

Yes, I DO want to press that... And may I suggest that maybe you should post more clearly, and when you make a claim about something you want us to believe you have that is directly relevant to the claims made in the thread, THEN PRESENT THE EVIDENCE and stop dancing around.

SHOW or LINK TO THESE 'FAKED' IMAGES. It's that simple.

Edited April 26, 2016 by ChrLzs

[SHaYap]

Yes, I DO want to press that... And may I suggest that maybe you should post more clearly, and when you make a claim about something you want us to believe you have that is directly relevant to the claims made in the thread, THEN PRESENT THE EVIDENCE and stop dancing around.

SHOW or LINK TO THESE 'FAKED' IMAGES. It's that simple.

Nope ... so what ?

Why would I want you to believe anything ? That's not my prerogative ... now dancing ... dancing I dance when and where I want ... I like dancing ...

~

[rambaldi]

. now dancing ... dancing I dance when and where I want ... I like dancing ...

Stop dancing and clearly state your case...

[SHaYap]

Stop dancing and clearly state your case...

What case ?

If you have issues with the reuters , wiki , npr or washington post (and more) headlines then take it up with them ... some people may be confused by those headlines, no fault of theirs or anyone else ... if you wanna make a case of it then take it up with them ... link

Most welcome ...

~

[Space Commander Travis]

Are we arguing again?

[rambaldi]

What case?

The one you were trying to support with these Quotes... but I guess you were just spamming...

[ChrLzs]

Just for the record, here's the claim third_eye made on the previous page (my emphasis):

Some of the photos released subsequently were not the original landing photos but of copies made from local display transmission of the event

That's a pretty specific accusation of fakery. And then..

I have a set of 'original' Moon Landing photographs I can sell you for a pretty penny

Again, the quotes are clearly implying they are faked. And now third_eye childishly taunts us and wants to sell them 'for a pretty penny'? This sounds like a playground retort.. Finally, the accusation again:

{They are}.. 'faked' as in not the original prints or RAW data

Now, when asked to back this up, he backpedals furiously and refuses point blank to support the claims in any way, let alone post the images he is referring to.

So at best we have misinformation, at worst, downright lying and/or trolling.

Which is it, third eye? If it's neither, then post the images. I'd strongly suggest you answer that, or I'll play the game in a way you may not like...

This is a discussion forum, and you made some serious claims. Ones that are seriously insulting to the people who achieved the lunar landings.

A decent person would either back the claims up, or admit they were trolling and/or apologise.

[SHaYap]

The one you were trying to support with these Quotes... but I guess you were just spamming...

What one ? ... I said the headlines can be confusing ... if it is not to you then explain it ... no need for name calling and accusations.

I know you think very highly of yourself but here is the bit where you are greatly and stupidly misinformed ...

Just for the record, here's the claim third_eye made on the previous page (my emphasis):

That's a pretty specific accusation of fakery. And then..

Here ...

~

The search was sparked when several still photographs appeared in the late 1990s that showed the superior-looking raw SSTV transmission on ground station monitors. The research team conducted a multi-year investigation in the hopes of finding the most pristine and usable versions of the moonwalk. If the original SSTV format tapes were to be found, more modern digital technology could make a higher-quality conversion, yielding better images than those originally seen. The researchers discovered that the tapes containing the raw unprocessed Apollo 11 SSTV signal were erased and reused by NASA in the early 1980s. This was according to NASA's procedures, as they were facing a major data tape shortage at that time.

~

wiki link: Underlined and emphasis mine. I said statements like these can be confusing and the fact of the matter stands ... erased

Again, the quotes are clearly implying they are faked. And now third_eye childishly taunts us and wants to sell them 'for a pretty penny'? This sounds like a playground retort.. Finally, the accusation again:

Now, when asked to back this up, he backpedals furiously and refuses point blank to support the claims in any way, let alone post the images he is referring to.

Take a chill pill ~ I said the headlines states it as such ... I made no mention ever of anything close to even what you are accusing ...

Houston, We Erased The Apollo 11 Tapes : npr link

Like I said, If you have issues with the headlines take it up with the editors ~

You are on a huge ego trip ...

So at best we have misinformation, at worst, downright lying and/or trolling.

Which is it, third eye? If it's neither, then post the images. I'd strongly suggest you answer that, or I'll play the game in a way you may not like...

I posted verified sources ... so who is lying and about what ? Like I said ... you don't like the sources you take it up with them ~

WHat you going to do ? Who do you think you are ?

This is a discussion forum, and you made some serious claims. Ones that are seriously insulting to the people who achieved the lunar landings.

A decent person would either back the claims up, or admit they were trolling and/or apologise.

You are a fine one to toss words like 'insult' around ... a decent person would read and comprehend before stomping self imposed authority on others in a public discussion forum ~

Just in case I was not clear ... quoting from the OP ...

***

So I was watching a video recently on the Apollo missions, and the original videos and images shown to the public are actually videos of the TV screen used in mission control,

***

I said the headlines that I posted would and can be as easily be confusing to the uninitiated and less informed ...

~ Now a decent person not unlike what you claim to be yourself would do the decent and proper thing ...

But I ain't holding my breath ~

~

[ChrLzs]

Third eye, NO image is an original. Even the 'original' file is just a representation, and as copies are made, quality is lost at each step. Right at the very start of this thread I explained EXACTLY what happened, namely that NASA erased tapes from which they had already extracted the data. AT THE TIME those who erased the data were not aware that later techniques could extract better quality.

Is there anything about that you don't understand?

You then posted reams of data, and very poorly worded insinuations of fakery, INSTEAD of simply acknowledging that there was NO fakery and that we are merely taliking about an administrative error (and only one in HINDSIGHT)., to make insinuations as you did. The intent of this thread was clearly to insinuate fakery, and you ran with that.

I apologise if I misread your poorly worded statements.... Next time try to understand what the thread is about, rather than some obscure point that you want to make, despite the correct information being already posted. Posting media reports without comment is hardly the way to get at the truth.

[Thorvir]

So, once again, in this day and age people still believe that the moon landings were faked.....

It's just nigh unimaginable; but then again, people tend to believe in the stupidest things still.

[Hawken]

Hey Grim. If you're having doubts about the moon landings then take a gander at this video.

The Soviets were cold war enemies back then and even today they say the US landed.

https://youtu.be/CVPBXKYidTs