U.S. tracked billions of calls pre 911

[Raptor Witness]

U.S. secretly tracked billions of calls for decades - USA Today - April 7, 2014

Starting in 1992, the Justice Department amassed logs of virtually all telephone calls from the USA to as many as 116 countries ...

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It seems that they trashed the Constitution long before they've admitted to it. All without so much as a whiff of consequence.

Here's the oath that they all took. What this means is that the perpetrators of this obvious crime have been OUR "enemy" by definition, all along; a wolf in wolf's clothing.

"I, __Liar___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

Edited April 7, 2015 by Raptor Witness

[Professor Buzzkill]

I heard about this in the nineties from a "conspiracy theorist" radio host discussing echelon. For a whole year I started every phone call with "Clinton" and "assassination" because if two or more keywords were mentioned, someone had to listen to the entire call. How many hours of a governmental organizations time I wasted I will never know.

[Raptor Witness]

I heard about this in the nineties from a "conspiracy theorist" radio host discussing echelon. For a whole year I started every phone call with "Clinton" and "assassination" because if two or more keywords were mentioned, someone had to listen to the entire call. How many hours of a governmental organizations time I wasted I will never know.

I don't think the evidence shows that they were listening to every call, pre-911, just recording the "to and from data."

If they were listening for certain keywords in the signals, as they are now, I would be very surprised because of the cost of doing so at that time. It's much cheaper today, per capita.

If you want to cause havoc on their sniffer platforms I wouldn't use quasi-threats against the President.

I realize that's not your intent, but there are better things to tourette.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Raptor Witness

[preacherman76]

What amazes me is how indifferent people are about being spied on. Let a leader say he's against something like say abortion, even though he has no power to stop it, the nation is outraged. Let the head of the NSA commit perjury, an directly lie not only to congress, but the whole country on live TV, and nothing.

Heck most people wanted to hang the guy who exposed him. SMH

[aztek]

What amazes me is how indifferent people are about being spied on. Let a leader say he's against something like say abortion, even though he has no power to stop it, the nation is outraged. Let the head of the NSA commit perjury, an directly lie not only to congress, but the whole country on live TV, and nothing.

Heck most people wanted to hang the guy who exposed him. SMH

sounds like Stockholm syndrome on a huge scale.

[Border Collie]

It didn't work very well, did it?

[aztek]

this is realted somewhat. it is not just nsa, your local pd are tracking your calls, and god knows what else.

FBI would rather prosecutors drop cases than disclose stingray details.

Relatively little is known about how, exactly, stingrays, known more generically as cell-site simulators, are used by law enforcement agencies nationwide, although new documents have recently been released showing how they have been purchased and used in some limited instances. Worse still, cops have lied to courts about their use. Not only can stingrays be used to determine location by spoofing a cell tower, they can also be used to intercept calls and text messages. Typically, police deploy them without first obtaining a search warrant.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/fbi-would-rather-prosecutors-drop-cases-than-disclose-stingray-details/

[2-B]

We're moving toward a society where our washing machines, TV's, electric meters, water meters, refrigerators, etc. are all spying on us, and a huge segment of society seems to be eating up some of these concepts without blinking an eye. I've seen postings on FB just oohing and aching over smart meters that record and control electric use in homes, and oh how happy those folks are to be saving money! No thought about who's getting their data or what it might mean down the road to have such meters taking "control." Run out of coffee? Won't happen with a smart refrigerator that keeps track of what you buy and how much you need, then alerts you to get more before you run out, Sound good? But is it just the slippery slope to the kind if thing we've heard about in schools where kids' home-packed turkey sandwiches have been ripped from their hands and replaced by some lunch the government program considered more "healthful"?

I know these things aren't NSA listening to phone calls, but the government is increasingly intruding on our lives--what decisions we can make with our doctors (if we get to KEEP our doctors), what lightbulb we buy, how long our showers can be (see California), how much water our washing machines can use (even if the dog threw up all over the throw rug), how hot the water can be in the washer (now alternating with warm unless you turn off the cold water at the source), and on and on it goes....

Then there was the brilliant Cash for Clunkers program that destroyed thousands of perfectly useful used cars low income people might have been able to afford, draining the market of used SUV-type vehicles for those who needed them for business, cargo transport, or 4-wheel drive.

It's not just phone calls, my fellow posters. Government intrusion in our lives is everywhere.

And I am far from a nut-case conspiracy theorist. Far. Just someone saturated by government fingers in my life.

/end rant. Sorry for intruding on your more narrow phone call thread.

Edited April 8, 2015 by 2-B

[questionmark]

What amazes me is how indifferent people are about being spied on. Let a leader say he's against something like say abortion, even though he has no power to stop it, the nation is outraged. Let the head of the NSA commit perjury, an directly lie not only to congress, but the whole country on live TV, and nothing.

Heck most people wanted to hang the guy who exposed him. SMH

It is not amazing, it is a state of mind defined by the sentence: "I don't mind the government listening to me, I have nothing to hide".

[Bama13]

The only amazing thing I find is how proponents of big government are complaining about big government. If you ask for a government that intrudes in peoples lives then you shouldn't be mad when you get one.

[Raptor Witness]

The oversimplified argument that all nations need secrets is eclipsed by the darkness of what Edward Snowden has revealed to us.

Given that the size of the haystack makes it totally unusable for protecting U.S., the most likely useful purpose is for targeted coercion.

What this means is, anyone who is deemed to be a future "enemy of the state," regardless of any real merit can be threatened or destroyed with this data.

It's the future weaponization of the data that is so destructive and dangerous to our freedom.

If they are allowed to "collect it all" without any consequences, doesn't that make using it, without consequences, almost certain?

Edited April 8, 2015 by Raptor Witness

[Dark_Grey]

No one is going to care about surveillance, corruption, or anything of real importance until the electricity shuts off or the food stops coming in. As long as we have it easy, we won't take the blinders off. You're damn right the people in charge know that too

[preacherman76]

It is not amazing, it is a state of mind defined by the sentence: "I don't mind the government listening to me, I have nothing to hide".

What does that have to do with the fact that the head of the NSA is a criminal? Perjury is a serious crime. So is aiding and abetting, which the DOJ, and several elected are guilty of for doing nothing about it. This on TOP of violating the 4th amendment several billion times now.

You might not be a criminal, but should we not care that they are?

[questionmark]

What does that have to do with the fact that the head of the NSA is a criminal? Perjury is a serious crime. So is aiding and abetting, which the DOJ, and several elected are guilty of for doing nothing about it. This on TOP of violating the 4th amendment several billion times now.

You might not be a criminal, but should we not care that they are?

Well, problem here is that who is criminal or not is determined by the state...an organization run lately by something akin to the Mafia...only that there are two families instead of two dozen and they call themselves "party". And that mostly because people are voluntarily giving up their right of influence as demonstrated by election turn-outs.

[Beefers]

Sadly, nothing will change. Some public outcry, like when Snowden opened our eyes, and in the end, we're still being spied on. But the US government hasn't often listened to public opinion, they do whatever they please.

[Babe Ruth]

What amazes me is how indifferent people are about being spied on. Let a leader say he's against something like say abortion, even though he has no power to stop it, the nation is outraged. Let the head of the NSA commit perjury, an directly lie not only to congress, but the whole country on live TV, and nothing.

Heck most people wanted to hang the guy who exposed him. SMH

The American people have been thoroughly brainwashed. John Oliver demonstrated that last week with street interviews about Edward Snowden. The American people are utterly oblivious to what's going on around them, EXCEPT for Dancing With The Stars or March Madness.

[Raptor Witness]

Sadly, nothing will change. Some public outcry, like when Snowden opened our eyes, and in the end, we're still being spied on. But the US government hasn't often listened to public opinion, they do whatever they please.

The name "Snowden" was not chosen at random.

[aztek]

may be snowden is nothing that we think he is, and does exactly the opposite of what we think he does. i mean very few of us would think, snowden is a gvmnt agent, that does exactly what gvmnt wants him to do, all that secret spying stuff, is nothing but a bunch of hot air to distract us for bigger thing. may be some is true, may be even all of it is true, but as we see what he told us, did not change anything, as far as gvmnt agencies operate, they can afford to disclose some things, (and make up few others alnog) knowing it wont change anything, i mean we were fed by media horror stories about armored cars, and military weapons cops got from military, and all news outlets, internet and tv was talking about, how many times have we seen mraps be used by cops? i can't think of one case, but blocked by this "noise" we missed real problem, cell tower simulators that cops got thru same program, and used thousads of times with no warrant, and they wont even say anything about, they woudl rather drop charges than aswer questions about it.

"life is stranger than fiction' well at least if i'm wrong, i came up with another CT. lol

Edited April 9, 2015 by aztek