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#751    Babe Ruth

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:31 PM

Thanks Raptor.  Though we don't agree for the most part, it seems to me you are the straightest shooter in the OCT crowd.

Like you and me, Ross & Furlong are mere mortals.  That they do not understand, or choose to ignore, the fine point you bring up about the potential lag time for radar data, is beyond my control.  Their claim that it is unquestionable is clearly wrong.

But the question is, WHERE do we begin?  Which implies that IF the radar data is good enough, reliable enough, for the 911 Commission, then it is good enough for their analysis.  In any rational public dialogue, there must be some sort of starting point.  For their analysis, where else to start?  What else to use?

And the other part of the equation is that by random chance, it is possible that the time cited happened to be as precise as could be, by sheer happenstance on the timing of the radar sweep.  So we are basically down to a coin toss here, as to whether it is precisely accurate or not.

So I am agreeing with you that IT IS POSSIBLE that the error and time delay works against accurate analysis.  But there are other factors too.  Besides the seismic data they cite, there are a number of fellow employees who corroborate Rodriguez' testimony.  And that fact tends to support the conclusions of Ross & Furlong.

And all the other circumstantial evidence that suggests explosives and thermite were in use that day.

And with your permission, we could discuss the fatal flaw to the Pentagon story, the Citgo witnesses, on some other thread that you might consider appropriate.  Or, in sequence, if you consider our agreement on your point to be satisfactory? :tu:


#752    skyeagle409

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:38 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 03 October 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

Thanks Raptor.  Though we don't agree for the most part, it seems to me you are the straightest shooter in the OCT crowd.

Like you and me, Ross & Furlong are mere mortals.  That they do not understand, or choose to ignore, the fine point you bring up about the potential lag time for radar data, is beyond my control.  Their claim that it is unquestionable is clearly wrong.

But the question is, WHERE do we begin?  Which implies that IF the radar data is good enough, reliable enough, for the 911 Commission, then it is good enough for their analysis.  In any rational public dialogue, there must be some sort of starting point.  For their analysis, where else to start?  What else to use?

And the other part of the equation is that by random chance, it is possible that the time cited happened to be as precise as could be, by sheer happenstance on the timing of the radar sweep.  So we are basically down to a coin toss here, as to whether it is precisely accurate or not.

So I am agreeing with you that IT IS POSSIBLE that the error and time delay works against accurate analysis.  But there are other factors too.  Besides the seismic data they cite, there are a number of fellow employees who corroborate Rodriguez' testimony.  And that fact tends to support the conclusions of Ross & Furlong.

And all the other circumstantial evidence that suggests explosives and thermite were in use that day.

Demolition experts, recovery crews and investigators found no evidence of explosives nor thermite usage. :no:

Quote

And with your permission, we could discuss the fatal flaw to the Pentagon story, the Citgo witnesses,...

Physical damage do not support witnesses who claimed that American 77 passed north of the Pentagon. In fact, direct physical evidence inside and outside the Pentagon disproves claims that American 77 passed north of the gas station. There are no downed light poles north of the gas station which is another indication that American 77 did not pass north of the gas station.


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Edited by skyeagle409, 03 October 2012 - 01:57 PM.

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#753    hacktorp

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:18 AM

View PostPulsar_J, on 04 August 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

What are your thoughts America?

Here are some very recent thoughts picked from the web about 911 and several prominent, yet untimely deaths that occurred just within the last couple of weeks:

Quote

Things that make you go hhhmmmmmmmmmm…..?
He said he wanted to expose something at work’
In his $5 million mansion, Robert McKeon, head of private equity firm, Veritas Capital, commits suicide by strangling himself.
Strangling himself???????
Awhile later, the news reports or claims that Albert Peterson, a wealthy defense contractor, formerly with Northrop Grumman, and presently employed as a Senior Subcontracts Administrator with BAE Systems Information Technology, murdered his wife and children, then turned his gun on himself, committing suicide.
A terrible tragedy, and the news reports further claimed Mr. Peterson was supposed to have committed those horrific acts because he was afraid President Obama would be reelected!
Because he was afraid President Obama would be reelected?????????????
One enterprising journalist actually did report that the now-deceased Mrs. Peterson had mentioned to a co-worker at defense contractor, Blackbird Technologies, where she worked, that her husband was troubled by something he had learned at BAE which he was seriously concerned about.  Albert Peterson had been involved with a BAE unit which a few years previously had been owned by Veritas Capital, then later sold to BAE.
It should be noted that Robert McKeon’s Veritas Capital had made some extremely fortuitous investments in the defense industry shortly prior to 9/11/01.  Some months prior to 9/11, Veritas Capital had also purchased Raytheon Aerospace, a subsidiary of Raytheon.
Aboard several of those four ill-fated airliners on 9/11/01 were developers of remote piloting hardware/software from Veritas Capital’s Raytheon Aerospace, and several similar subcontractors (from BAE, I believe).
Sounds more like a brutal cleanup crew was active --- cleansing a possible leak of a probably innocent man and his family, and the private equity principal of a highly profitable operation eleven years earlier.
(While it may be the only actual coincidence here, it should also be noted that several years ago --- or the last time we checked --- the majority shareholders in Northrop Grumman were James Baker and the Bush family.)
Things that make you go hhhmmmmmmmmmm…..?



#754    Pulsar_J

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:54 AM

View Posthacktorp, on 04 October 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Here are some very recent thoughts picked from the web about 911 and several prominent, yet untimely deaths that occurred just within the last couple of weeks:
hhhhmmmmm!

Savvy?

#755    Jackofalltrades

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:21 PM

Here is my thought's on 9/11 that I posted in another topic.....


"There are three possibilities that I believe can be or possibly is the truth in the 9/11 attack's....

One


The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it (to give them an excuse to go on the war path ?)


Two

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it, PLUS the government prepared for it and facilitated the demise of building 7 (to hide various document's ? to make it look worse than what it is ? to cause more hatred for terrorism/terrorist's ?)


Three


The Government knew that the attack was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen because THEY or the CIA facilitated the whole thing

Whether that be with the help of AlQaeda or not is another matter


If Nothing else, primarily ALL the INNOCENT people that died in the 9/11 attack's and their families, and also people that knew them, and also EVERY American citizen deserve's the truth

And also ALL the INNOCENT people that have died their families, and also people that knew them, in Iraq and Afghanistan due to the "War on Terror" also deserve the truth

And I dont know about You, but I would like to know the truth....."

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#756    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:24 PM

View PostJackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Here is my thought's on 9/11 that I posted in another topic.....


"There are three possibilities that I believe can be or possibly is the truth in the 9/11 attack's....

One


The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it (to give them an excuse to go on the war path ?)

The government was warned by countries around the world before 9/11, that terrorist were planning to use aircraft as weapons and in fact, the Philippines revealed a plot to the United States of terrorist plans to use airliners as weapons and one plan involved the use of an airplane as a weapon to attack the headquarters of the CIA.

Quote

]Two[/u]

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it, PLUS the government prepared for it and facilitated the demise of building 7 (to hide various document's ? to make it look worse than what it is ? to cause more hatred for terrorism/terrorist's ?)

Our intelligence agencies dropped the ball on 9/11 because of missteps and bungling between agencies that has been going on for many years before the 9/11 attacks.

Quote

Three


The Government knew that the attack was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen because THEY or the CIA facilitated the whole thing

The Bojinka Plot, a plot revealed to the United States, shows that the CIA headquarters was also targeted by terrorist who planned to use an airplane as a weapon to attack the CIA, so we can exclude the CIA by that very fact. Why would the government allow terrorist to attack the Pentagon?

Quote

If Nothing else, primarily ALL the INNOCENT people that died in the 9/11 attack's and their families, and also people that knew them, and also EVERY American citizen deserve's the truth

The American people have been presented with the truth and evidence, but there are 9/11 conspiracist who have distorted  the truth and evidence..

Quote

And I dont know about You, but I would like to know the truth....."


Then look at the evidence and not conspiracist who are in the habit of distorting the truth and evidence and the use of hoaxed and deceptive videos and photos. In other words, don't fall victim to their machine of deception.

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 03:27 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#757    hacktorp

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

View PostPulsar_J, on 04 October 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

hhhhmmmmm!

Here's a really fascinating report that is a must-read:

Quote

On September 11, 2001 three hijacked airliners hit three separate buildings with such precision and skill that many observers believe those flights were controlled by something other than the poorly trained hijackers in the cockpits. This report contends that not only were the buildings targets, but that specific offices within each building were the designated targets.

http://www.scribd.co...unding-Targeted


#758    skyeagle409

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:49 PM

View Posthacktorp, on 04 October 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Here are some very recent thoughts picked from the web about 911 and several prominent, yet untimely deaths that occurred just within the last couple of weeks:

Defense contractors use commercial airlines for transportation purpose around the world everyday, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were contractors on all four airliners and not surprised at the acquisition process regarding defense contractors.

For an example, after my retirement from the Air Force, I went to work for Raytheon Aerospace at Travis AFB, CA. on an Air Force contract and within a few years, Vertex Aerospace took over from Raytheon Aerospace, and not long after that, the contract was taken over by L3 Communications. After completion of the contract at Travis, I went to work on a contract at Corpus Christi, TX, for L3 Communications and two years later, AECOM took over the contract, and the year after that, L3 came back and took the contract from AECOM.

Nothing new to me there, but to those who are not familiar with the way things are in the real world of aviation, and as they pertain to our defense contractors, they concoct conspiracy theories not knowing the rest of the story or fall victim to those whose agenda is to distort the truth and evidence.

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 03:50 PM.

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#759    hacktorp

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Nothing new to me there, but to those who are not familiar with the way things are in the real world of aviation, and as they pertain to our defense contractors, they concoct conspiracy theories not knowing the rest of the story or fall victim to those whose agenda is to distort the truth and evidence.

Ever feel like the Little Dutch Boy?  With all of your fingers and toes stuck in a crumbling dam that holds back a potential tsunami of truth?

Just take a deep breath and keep repeating to yourself:

"They Hate Us For Our Freedom"

"They Hate Us For Our Freedom"


#760    Jackofalltrades

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:17 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

The government was warned by countries around the world before 9/11, that terrorist were planning to use aircraft as weapons and in fact, the Philippines revealed a plot to the United States of terrorist plans to use airliners as weapons and one plan involved the use of an airplane as a weapon to attack the headquarters of the CIA.


And You still wander why there is people that believe that the government knew that the attack was coming....

View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:


Our intelligence agencies dropped the ball on 9/11 because of missteps and bungling between agencies that has been going on for many years before the 9/11 attacks.


Dropped the ball is putting it very lightly.... seeing as NORAD was on a stand down, and told not to do anything or intercept the aircraft in question


View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:


The Bojinka Plot, a plot revealed to the United States, shows that the CIA headquarters was also targeted by terrorist who planned to use an airplane as a weapon to attack the CIA, so we can exclude the CIA by that very fact.


Can You really expect me or anyone else to exclude anything to do with the CIA, based on that fact ? are You NOT following the evidence that is relevent to the attack's on the Pentagon or 9/11 as a whole ???

Or are You just finding reason's/excuses why they (CIA/government) would not do such a thing ?

Just because the Bojinka plot existed, does NOT mean that the CIA did not have anything to do with the attack's......


View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Why would the government allow terrorist to attack the Pentagon?


http://video.google....516028875682825



What transpired on 9/10 could be the very reason why the pentagon was hit.....

Apparently the area of the Pentagon that was hit had computer's/record's of such information that shed light on the missing money, and could be the reason why


View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:


The American people have been presented with the truth and evidence, but there are 9/11 conspiracist who have distorted  the truth and evidence..


Dont make me laugh..............

When the American people have been presented with the full 100% evidence of what transpired that day then and ONLY THEN they have or will have been presented with the TRUTH

While the government witholds such evidence and information then they are NOT presenting the American people with anything but their version of event's....

And yes I agree that there has been various people that have distorted the truth and evidence.... NOT just CT's but people that work for the government too

View Postskyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:


Then look at the evidence and not conspiracist who are in the habit of distorting the truth and evidence and the use of hoaxed and deceptive videos and photos. In other words, don't fall victim to their machine of deception.


Excuse me... BUT I have been following/looking at the evidence and I have NOT been misled by ANYONE let alone CT's or even the government

The deception work's BOTH WAYS, while there is CT's that like to decieve, so do the government..... (the government, in my opinion has a lot more to lose, not just respect etc that CT's have to lose)

Deception is rife in the government's and not just in CT's, while You can and possibly do accept that CT's are or can be deceptive and not think that the government's are too, then that boggle's my mind, and it also show's that You are not open minded and not seeking the truth (in my opinion), no matter what the truth may be....

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#761    booNyzarC

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:27 PM

View PostJackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Here is my thought's on 9/11 that I posted in another topic.....


"There are three possibilities that I believe can be or possibly is the truth in the 9/11 attack's....

One


The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it (to give them an excuse to go on the war path ?)


Two

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it, PLUS the government prepared for it and facilitated the demise of building 7 (to hide various document's ? to make it look worse than what it is ? to cause more hatred for terrorism/terrorist's ?)


Three


The Government knew that the attack was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen because THEY or the CIA facilitated the whole thing

Whether that be with the help of AlQaeda or not is another matter


If Nothing else, primarily ALL the INNOCENT people that died in the 9/11 attack's and their families, and also people that knew them, and also EVERY American citizen deserve's the truth

And also ALL the INNOCENT people that have died their families, and also people that knew them, in Iraq and Afghanistan due to the "War on Terror" also deserve the truth

And I dont know about You, but I would like to know the truth....."

So you don't even think it is possible that the attacks took place pretty much as determined and our lack of preparedness for it was more because of intelligence screwups than anything else?  You don't think it's possible that the government and/or intelligence agencies had no conscious role in facilitating the events?


#762    Anonymous User

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:37 PM

<<Posting here so additional posts in this thread will show up in my notification box.>>


#763    Q24

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:49 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 04 October 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

So you don't even think it is possible that the attacks took place pretty much as determined and our lack of preparedness for it was more because of intelligence screwups than anything else?  You don't think it's possible that the government and/or intelligence agencies had no conscious role in facilitating the events?

That is inconceivable because a number of the men who entered the United States and later became the 9/11 hijackers were known Al Qaeda terrorists and under close intelligence surveillance at the time, yet they were assisted in acquiring money, renting accommodation and booking flying lessons by intelligence assets and when the FBI tried to correct the situation of having terrorists inside the country, the CIA bin Laden unit blocked that intervention.  So no, it does not look like a screw up at all, but an intelligence driven false flag operation.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#764    Jackofalltrades

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:52 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 04 October 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

So you don't even think it is possible that the attacks took place pretty much as determined and our lack of preparedness for it was more because of intelligence screwups than anything else?  You don't think it's possible that the government and/or intelligence agencies had no conscious role in facilitating the events?

With how good the intelligence agencies in America is and how much money the government spend on intelligence, I cannot believe You asked that question TBH

The three possibilitie's that I have posted are the only three thing's that I currently believe are possible due to the various numerous bit's of evidence that I have seen so far, if there is ANY evidence that contradict's my belief's then I will adjust my belief's/view's accordingly, due to evidence and nothing else

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#765    booNyzarC

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:04 PM

View PostQ24, on 04 October 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

That is inconceivable because a number of the men who entered the United States and later became the 9/11 hijackers were known Al Qaeda terrorists and under close intelligence surveillance at the time, yet they were assisted in acquiring money, renting accommodation and booking flying lessons by intelligence assets and when the FBI tried to correct the situation of having terrorists inside the country, the CIA bin Laden unit blocked that intervention.  So no, it does not look like a screw up at all, but an intelligence driven false flag operation.

According to you.



View PostJackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

With how good the intelligence agencies in America is and how much money the government spend on intelligence, I cannot believe You asked that question TBH

The three possibilitie's that I have posted are the only three thing's that I currently believe are possible due to the various numerous bit's of evidence that I have seen so far, if there is ANY evidence that contradict's my belief's then I will adjust my belief's/view's accordingly, due to evidence and nothing else

Thanks for clarifying Jack.

Cheers.





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