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Problem of Evil

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#271    David Henson

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:46 AM

View PostIamsSon, on 06 February 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

What exactly do you consider "accurate Bible chronology?"
B.C.E.


4026, Adam created

3404, Enoch born

3096, Adam dies

2970, Noah born

2470, Japheth born

2468, Shem born

2370, Flood begins

2369, post-Flood history begins

1943, Abraham crosses Euphrates

1932, Ishmael born

1919, covenant of circumcision made with Abraham

1918, Isaac born

1913, Isaac weaned

1893, Abraham attempts to sacrifice Isaac

1881, Sarah dies

1878, Isaac weds Rebekah

1858, Esau and Jacob born

1843, Abraham dies

1795, Ishmael dies

1781, Jacob flees to Mesopotamia

1774, Jacob weds Leah and Rachel

1761, Jacob returns to Canaan

1750, Joseph sold into slavery

1738, Isaac dies

1728, Jacob moves to Egypt

1711, Jacob dies

1657, Joseph dies

c. 1613, Job tried

1513, Exodus from Egypt / Genesis written

1512, Aaronic priesthood installed / Exodus, Leviticus written / tabernacle completed

c. 1473, Job written

1473, Numbers, Deuteronomy written / Moses dies / Israelites enter Promised Land / spies enter Jericho / Jericho falls

c. 1467, conquest of Canaan completed

c. 1450, Joshua written

1424, first Jubilee celebrated

1173, Jephthah becomes judge

1117, Saul begins reign

c. 1100, Judges written

c. 1090, Ruth written

c. 1078, 1 Samuel written

1077, David becomes king of Judah at Hebron / Ish-bosheth becomes king of Israel

1075, Ish-bosheth assassinated

1070, David becomes king over all Israel

(Sometime after 1070), David brings ark of the covenant to Jerusalem

c. 1040, 2 Samuel written

1037, Solomon begins reign

1034, Solomon begins temple

1027, Solomon completes temple

1026, Solomon dedicates temple

c. 1020, Song of Solomon written

(Sometime before 1000) Ecclesiastes written

 998, Solomon dies

 997, Rehoboam becomes king / Israel divided into two kingdoms / Jeroboam becomes king of Israel

 993, Pharaoh Shishak invades Judah

 980, Abijah (Abijam) becomes king of Judah

 978, Asa becomes king of Judah

 977, Asa's first regnal year

c. 976, Nadab becomes king of Israel

c. 975, Baasha becomes king of Israel

 967, Asa defeats Ethiopians

 962, "thirty-sixth year" of Asa's reign

c. 952, Elah becomes king of Israel

c. 951, Zimri becomes king of Israel for seven days / Omri becomes king of Israel

c. 940, Ahab becomes king of Israel

 936, Jehoshaphat becomes king of Judah

c. 920, Ahab dies

c. 919, Ahaziah (son of Ahab) becomes king of Israel

c. 917, Jehoram (son of Ahab) becomes king of Israel

 913, Jehoram (son of Jehoshaphat) reigns with father

 911, Jehoshaphat dies

c. 906, Ahaziah (grandson of Jehoshaphat) becomes king of Judah

c. 905, Jehu anointed as king of Israel / Jehoram (son of Ahab) killed by Jehu / Ahaziah (grandson of Jehoshaphat) killed by Jehu / Athaliah usurps throne of Judah

c. 904, Jehu's first year as king of Israel

 898, Jehoash (son of Ahaziah) becomes king of Judah

c. 877, Jehu dies

 876, Jehoahaz becomes king of Israel

 860, Jehoahaz dies

c. 859, Jehoash (son of Jehoahaz) becomes king of Israel

 859, Jehoash (son of Ahaziah) assassinated

 858, Amaziah becomes king of Judah

c. 844, Jeroboam II becomes king of Israel / Jonah written

 829, Uzziah becomes king of Judah

c. 820, Joel written

c. 818, Uzziah (Azariah) 'becomes king'

c. 804, Amos written / Hosea begins prophesying / Jeroboam II begins last regnal year

c. 803, Jeroboam II dies

c. 792, Zechariah becomes king of Israel

 791, Shallum becomes king of Israel for one month

c. 790, Menahem's first regnal year as king of Israel

c. 780, Pekahiah becomes king of Israel

c. 778, Isaiah begins prophesying / Pekah becomes king of Israel

 777, Jotham becomes king of Judah / Micah begins prophesying

 762, Ahaz becomes king of Judah

c. 758, Hoshea becomes king of Israel

 753, Rome founded (tradition)

 746, Ahaz dies

 745, Hezekiah's first regnal year as king of Judah

(sometime after 745) Hosea written

 742, Samaria besieged

 740, ten-tribe kingdom of Israel falls

 732, Sennacherib attacks Judah

(sometime after 732) Isaiah stops prophesying / Isaiah written

(sometime before 717) Micah written

c. 717, Proverbs compiled

 717, Hezekiah dies

 716, Manasseh becomes king of Judah

 661, Amon becomes king of Judah

 659, Josiah becomes king of Judah

(sometime before 648) Zephaniah written

 647, Jeremiah commissioned

 645, Nabopolassar becomes king of Babylon

(sometime before 632) Nahum written

 632, Nineveh falls

 629, Josiah killed in battle / Pharaoh Necho(h) takes Carchemish / reestablishment of Assyrian Empire fails

c. 628, Habakkuk written

 628, Jehoahaz becomes king of Judah / Jehoiakim becomes king of Judah

 625, battle of Carchemish / Jeremiah has Baruch write prophecies

 624, Baruch reads scroll in temple courtyard / Nebuchadnezzar becomes king of Babylon

 620, Jehoiakim vassal to Nebuchadnezzar

 618, Nebuchadnezzar besieges Jerusalem / Jehoiakim dies

 618-617, Jehoiachin rules, is exiled

 617, Zedekiah becomes king of Judah / first exiles from Jerusalem

 614, Zedekiah and Seraiah to Babylon

 613, Ezekiel commissioned

 612, Ezekiel's vision of false worship in temple

 611, Ezekiel confirms Jerusalem to fall

 609, final siege of Jerusalem begins

 607, Jerusalem falls / Jerusalem destroyed / temple burned / Lamentations written / last exiles from Jerusalem

c. 607, Obadiah written

(sometime after 607) Nebuchadnezzar takes Tyre

c. 606, Nebuchadnezzar's dream of image

 602, Nebuchadnezzar exiles more Jews, conquers Moab and Ammon, and invades Egypt

 593, Ezekiel's vision of future temple

c. 591, Ezekiel written

 580, 1 and 2 Kings written / Jeremiah written

 560, Cyrus the Great becomes king of Persia

 556, Nabonidus becomes king of Babylon

 553, Belshazzar coregent with Nabonidus / Daniel receives vision

 551, Daniel receives vision

 550, Cyrus unites Medes and Persians

 540, Meroë becomes capital of Ethiopia

 539, Cyrus takes Babylon, becomes its king / Daniel receives prophecy of 70 weeks

 538-537, Cyrus decrees release of Jews

 537, Jews repatriated, altar erected

 536, Daniel receives prophecy of kings of north and south / temple foundation laid

c. 536, Daniel written

 530, Cyrus the Great dies

 529, Cambyses II begins rule

 525, Cambyses II subjugates Egypt

 522, Cambyses II dies / Smerdis (Bardiya or Gaumata) usurps Persian throne / ban on temple construction / Darius I (Hystaspis) ascends throne / Darius I (Hystaspis) defeats Nebuchadnezzar III

 521-520, Darius I's first regnal year as king of Babylon

 520, Haggai and Zechariah prophesy / temple building resumed / Haggai written

 518, Zechariah written

 515, temple completed

 496, Xerxes I coregent with father Darius I (Hystaspis)

 490, battle of Marathon, Greece

 486, Darius I (Hystaspis) dies

 484, Ahasuerus (Xerxes I) decrees extermination of Jews

 480, Xerxes I invades Greece / battle at Thermopylae

479, Greeks defeat Persians at Plataea

c. 475, Esther written

 475, Artaxerxes Longimanus ascends throne

 474-473, Artaxerxes Longimanus' first regnal year

 468, Ezra travels to Jerusalem

c. 460, 1 and 2 Chronicles written / Ezra written / Psalms completed

 455, Artaxerxes Longimanus issues command to rebuild Jerusalem and walls / Jerusalem's walls completed

c. 443, Nehemiah returns to Persia

(sometime after 443) Malachi written / Nehemiah written

 424, Artaxerxes Longimanus' reign ends

 423-422, Darius II's first regnal year

 404, Artaxerxes II (Mnemon) becomes king

 358, Artaxerxes III (Ochus) becomes king

 336, Alexander the Great ascends throne

 334, Alexander invades Persia / Alexander defeats Persians at Granicus

 333, Alexander defeats Persians at Issus

 332, Alexander overthrows Tyre / Alexander enters Jerusalem / Alexander conquers Egypt

 331, Alexander defeats Persians at Gaugamela / Persian Empire falls / Alexander enters Babylon

 323, Alexander the Great dies

 301, Alexander's generals in power

 168, Jerusalem's temple desecrated

 167, Maccabean revolt begins / Macedonia conquered by Rome

 165, Jerusalem's temple rededicated

 150, Septuagint completed

 146, Macedonia a Roman province

  63, Jerusalem falls to Rome

  46, Julius Caesar begins rule

  44, Julius Caesar assassinated

  42, victory of Octavius and Mark Antony on Plain of Philippi

c. 39, Herod the Great becomes king of Judaea

  31, Octavius begins rule / Octavius defeats Mark Antony

  30, Octavius conquers Egypt / Rome a world power

  27, Octavius becomes emperor, proclaimed "Augustus"

c. 17, Herod begins to rebuild temple

   3, Gabriel foretells birth of John the Baptizer

   2, Jesus born

   1, Herod the Great dies


C.E.




  14, Tiberius becomes emperor

  28-29, Tiberius' fifteenth year

  29, spring, John the Baptizer begins ministry / fall, Jesus baptized, becomes Christ (Messiah)

  30, Jesus cleanses temple

  31, Jesus gives Sermon on Mount

  32, Jesus attends Festival of Booths / John the Baptizer beheaded

  33, Nisan 7, Jesus travels from Jericho to Bethany / Nisan 8, Jesus arrives in Bethany / Nisan 9, meal at home of Simon; entry into Jerusalem / Nisan 10, Jesus cleanses temple, teaches; Jehovah speaks / Nisan 11, Jesus' ministry in and around Jerusalem / Nisan 12, Jesus in retirement; Judas offers to betray / Nisan 13, Passover preparations / Nisan 15, Pilate permits guards for Jesus' grave / Nisan 16, Jesus resurrected / Sivan 6, Christian congregation founded

c. 34, Saul of Tarsus converted

c. 36, Paul first visits Jerusalem as Christian / Paul taken to Caesarea, sent to Tarsus

  36, Cornelius converted

  37, Caligula (Gaius Caesar) becomes emperor

c. 41, Matthew written / Paul's vision

  41, Caligula assassinated / Claudius becomes emperor / Herod Agrippa I becomes king of all Palestine

  43, Claudius begins conquest of southern Britain

c. 44, Agabus prophesies famine / James (son of Zebedee) martyred / Peter imprisoned, miraculously released

  44, Herod Agrippa I dies

c. 46, foretold famine strikes; Paul brings relief to Jerusalem

c. 47-48, Paul's first missionary tour

c. 47, Paul, Barnabas, and John Mark visit Salamis

c. 49, circumcision issue at Antioch / conference in Jerusalem / territory assignments / Paul begins second missionary tour

c. 49-52, Paul's second missionary tour

c. 49-50, Claudius expels Jews from Rome

c. 50, Luke joins Paul at Troas / Paul's vision of Macedonian man / Paul visits Philippi / Philippian congregation founded / Thessalonian congregation founded / Thessalonians written

c. 50-52, Paul visits Corinth / Galatians written

c. 51, 2 Thessalonians written

c. 52-56, Paul's third missionary tour

c. 52-55, Paul visits Ephesus

  54, Nero begins rule

c. 55, 1 Corinthians written / Titus sent to Corinth / 2 Corinthians written

c. 56, Romans written / Paul resurrects Eutychus in Troas / Paul and Luke stay with Philip in Caesarea / Paul arrested in Jerusalem

c. 56-58, Paul in custody in Caesarea / Luke written

c. 58, Festus succeeds Felix

  58, Herod Agrippa II hears Paul

c. 59, Paul stops at Syracuse

c. 59-61, Paul's first imprisonment in Rome

c. 60-61, Colossians written / Ephesians written / Philemon written / Philippians written

c. 60-65, Mark written

c. 61, Acts written / Hebrews written

c. 61-64, 1 Timothy written / Titus left in Crete / Titus written

(sometime before 62) James written

c. 62, James (brother of Jesus) dies

c. 62-64, 1 Peter written

c. 64, 2 Peter written

  64, Rome burns

c. 65, Paul's second imprisonment in Rome and death / 2 Timothy written / Titus leaves for Dalmatia / Jude written

  66, Jews seize Masada / Jews revolt against Rome / Cestius Gallus attacks Jerusalem, withdraws

  67, Vespasian begins to quell Jewish uprising

  68, Galba becomes emperor

  69, Otho becomes emperor / Vitellius becomes emperor / Vespasian becomes emperor / Titus continues campaign against Jews

  70, Jerusalem destroyed by Romans / temple burned

  73, Masada falls

  79, Titus becomes emperor

  81, Domitian becomes emperor

  96, Nerva becomes emperor / Revelation written

  96-98, John released from exile

c. 98, John written / 1 John written / 2 John written / 3 John written

  98, Trajan becomes emperor

c. 100, John dies

 100, Herod Agrippa II dies

 122, Hadrian begins wall in Britain

 130, Hadrian rebuilds Jerusalem

 132, Jews revolt under Bar Kokhba

 200, Symmachus translates Hebrew Scriptures

c. 245, Origen completes Hexapla

 286, Diocletian begins rule

 303, Diocletian decrees that Christian meeting places be razed and Scriptures burned

 306, Constantine the Great becomes emperor

 321, Constantine decrees Sunday a day of rest

 325, Council of Nicaea

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#272    Paranoid Android

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:06 AM

View PostDavid Henson, on 06 February 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

B.C.E.


4026, Adam created

....

C.E.

 325, Council of Nicaea
So in your estimation, where do the Australian Aboriginals fit into the timeline (archaeology suggests that they have been on this great continent I live on for 40 thousand years).

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#273    David Henson

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:13 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 06 February 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

So in your estimation, where do the Australian Aboriginals fit into the timeline (archaeology suggests that they have been on this great continent I live on for 40 thousand years).

What do they base this upon?

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#274    Paranoid Android

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:22 AM

View PostDavid Henson, on 06 February 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

What do they base this upon?
I'm not certain.  I am neither an archaeologist nor an historian.  I presume they dug up sites and found evidence in the rock strata, or perhaps were able to use a dating method (carbon dating, for example) to approximate a date.  Perhaps aboriginal cave paintings have been analysed to come to that date.  I honestly don't know, but the only people who seem to disagree with the forty thousand year date are Creationists who insist the human race can't be older than approximately six thousand years.  And since these people approach the question of the Australian Aboriginals with a preconception that whatever else happens it MUST be less than 6000 years, then they have to fit the evidence into that number, not sit back and let the evidence speak for itself.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 06 February 2013 - 04:40 AM.

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#275    David Henson

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:52 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 06 February 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

I'm not certain.  I am neither an archaeologist nor an historian.  I presume they dug up sites and found evidence in the rock strata, or perhaps were able to use a dating method (carbon dating, for example) to approximate a date.  Perhaps aboriginal cave paintings have been analysed to come to that date.  I honestly don't know, but the only people who seem to disagree with the forty thousand year date are Creationists who insist the human race can't be older than approximately six thousand years.  And since these people approach the question of the Australian Aboriginals with a preconception that whatever else happens it MUST be less than 6000 years, then they have to fit the evidence into that number, not sit back and let the evidence speak for itself.

Carbon 14 has a half life of 5,700 years, so carbon dating is only somewhat accurate up to a point. Linen wrapping from the Dead Sea Scrolls, for example, dated to the 1st or 2nd century B.C.E. at 1,900 years. In 1969 a conference was held in Uppsala, Sweden where archaeologists and geologists discussed a dozen flaws in carbon dating. The possibility of contamination by live carbon with dead. From a biblical perspective there is the very real possibility for there having been a change in the atmosphere were carbon levels dramatically changed.  Magnetic storms on the sun can increase cosmic rays a thousandfold in a few hours. Volcanic eruptions, even modern day pollution.

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#276    Paranoid Android

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:56 AM

View PostDavid Henson, on 06 February 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

Carbon 14 has a half life of 5,700 years, so carbon dating is only somewhat accurate up to a point. Linen wrapping from the Dead Sea Scrolls, for example, dated to the 1st or 2nd century B.C.E. at 1,900 years. In 1969 a conference was held in Uppsala, Sweden where archaeologists and geologists discussed a dozen flaws in carbon dating. The possibility of contamination by live carbon with dead. From a biblical perspective there is the very real possibility for there having been a change in the atmosphere were carbon levels dramatically changed.  Magnetic storms on the sun can increase cosmic rays a thousandfold in a few hours. Volcanic eruptions, even modern day pollution.
Ok, so maybe not Carbon dating.  Obviously I'm not much of a scientist either.  In any case, as mentioned, the only people who disagree with the 40 thousand years of Aboriginal life in Australia are the people who believe human life has only been on the planet for 6000 years.  At least, I have never met someone who believes in millions of years of evolution who then says Aboriginals have only been here for a few thousand years in Australia.

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#277    David Henson

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:02 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 06 February 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Ok, so maybe not Carbon dating.  Obviously I'm not much of a scientist either.  In any case, as mentioned, the only people who disagree with the 40 thousand years of Aboriginal life in Australia are the people who believe human life has only been on the planet for 6000 years.  At least, I have never met someone who believes in millions of years of evolution who then says Aboriginals have only been here for a few thousand years in Australia.

Well, it goes both ways, I suppose. Those who believe in evolution believe their evidence and those who believe the Bible believe their evidence. Many of the Aboriginals who adhere to an accurate understanding of the Holi Baibul would disagree with the estimation of science.

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#278    Paranoid Android

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:12 AM

View PostDavid Henson, on 06 February 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Well, it goes both ways, I suppose. Those who believe in evolution believe their evidence and those who believe the Bible believe their evidence. Many of the Aboriginals who adhere to an accurate understanding of the Holi Baibul would disagree with the estimation of science.
Actually they are quite different.  One side is coming in with a preconception, the other is not.  The thought processes behind one group goes as follows - "What can science tell us about the origins of humans".  From there they test and arrive at a hypothesis which is either validated or disregarded.  In contrast, the thought process behind the other group is totally different, and goes along these lines - "We know that humanity has been here for six thousand years, so let's find the evidence from science to back it up".  

You see how these are different?  

For the record, I believe I hold an accurate understanding of the Bible, but at the same time I'm happy to accept that Genesis 1-3 (actually, Genesis 1-11, but we'll focus on the creation accounts in the first three chapters) was not written as a scientific or historical account of creation, and therefore I have zero problem with thinking of humanity existing for much longer than six thousand years.

~ Regards, PA

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#279    Rlyeh

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:39 AM

View PostDavid Henson, on 06 February 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

Carbon 14 has a half life of 5,700 years, so carbon dating is only somewhat accurate up to a point. Linen wrapping from the Dead Sea Scrolls, for example, dated to the 1st or 2nd century B.C.E. at 1,900 years. In 1969 a conference was held in Uppsala, Sweden where archaeologists and geologists discussed a dozen flaws in carbon dating.
Ofcourse they would it as these measurement techniques are part of the profession, the flaws are known but not as exaggerated as creationists like to pretend.


#280    IamsSon

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostDavid Henson, on 06 February 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

B.C.E.


4026, Adam created
What is the basis for this date?  The reason I ask is that usually the 6,000 year figure is based on genealogies, but there are serious issues with the use of the genealogies for this purpose.  Article: The Genesis Genealogies: Are They Complete?

I believe the Bible to be God's Word and to be true and accurate, but like PA, I believe one has to keep in mind the literary forms that were used in different books and even in different passages within books.  I also believe that many of the things Christians believe to be Biblical are actually based more on tradition than on a proper, contextual understanding of Scripture.

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#281    J. K.

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

Since mankind got whittled down to 8 people, they were the only source of knowledge for the antediluvian world.  Do you suppose that Noah had writings of that history, or did he carry it in the form of oral history?  (That also sort of applies to the Aboriginal question earlier; don't they rely on oral history, so the possibility is that their dates are off?)

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#282    IamsSon

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostJ. K., on 06 February 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Since mankind got whittled down to 8 people, they were the only source of knowledge for the antediluvian world.  Do you suppose that Noah had writings of that history, or did he carry it in the form of oral history?  (That also sort of applies to the Aboriginal question earlier; don't they rely on oral history, so the possibility is that their dates are off?)
Actually, they would not have been the only source.  After all, the Bible is inspired by God who was three before creation, before the flood, and is still here.

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#283    Copasetic

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:47 AM

View PostDavid Henson, on 06 February 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

God "and his muses" have proven to be far more accurate. In another thread I point out that the life expectancy given by science for King David's time was 35 - 40 years when he himself wrote it was 70 - 80. The basis of science on the matter is conjecture, whereas David was there.

You're understanding of life expectancy seems to be about on par with rest of your understanding of that ev-uhal!1! science!@1!

Here, read, learn, its free--It wont hurt either. Bring a little more education to the bible belt! It's written by a Christian too no doubt.

Edited by Copasetic, 07 February 2013 - 03:50 AM.






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