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Response being sent to Wow! signal


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#76    cormac mac airt

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 05:24 AM

Thanks for that, Badeskov. Appears that like many other things there's an exception to the rule, with the BMEWS system. But getting a signal out there isn't going to do any good if nobody at the other end can understand it. Which puts us back at square one from the sounds of it.

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#77    badeskov

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 05:32 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 30 June 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

Thanks for that, Badeskov. Appears that like many other things there's an exception to the rule, with the BMEWS system. But getting a signal out there isn't going to do any good if nobody at the other end can understand it. Which puts us back at square one from the sounds of it.

cormac

My pleasure cormac, always a pleasure conversing with you.

While the BMEWS signal should indeed be capable of reaching pretty far, it comes with it's own pretty annoying (to ET) limitations. Frequency hopping and no actual information embedded. In fact I doubt ET could get very much out of it (there are many other natural radio sources in space that can give you a repetitive signal).

Frankly, I doubt that we could make any sense of an ET signal and nor would ET be able to make any sense of any of our signals as it currently stands. What I think would be required would be a continuous transmission of a repetitive signal towards a given target over a rather long duration of time, but that would kinda require that we (or ET) would know where to direct signals. As you say, a short burst of data that we cannot decipher would be of about no use to anybody.

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#78    Occams Razor

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 11:33 AM

View PostlibstaK, on 26 June 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

So they intend to send our personal messages and hope the "Alien Scientists" have better luck decoding them than we have the WOW signal.  Actually, I hope they don't stand a chance decoding it, can you imagine what some folk are gonna be saying? I'd rather not be associated with them kind of sound bites on a cosmic scale if you don't mind Mr National Geographic, hmm.

You won't have to be concerned about embarrassment, the supposed origin of the 'wow' signal is 220 light years away. So you have 220 years and a month or so before any alien scientists or 'radio hams' hear anything we send them. Assuming they're there, and they're listening of course.


#79    Occams Razor

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:26 PM

View Postbadeskov, on 30 June 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

My pleasure cormac, always a pleasure conversing with you.

While the BMEWS signal should indeed be capable of reaching pretty far, it comes with it's own pretty annoying (to ET) limitations. Frequency hopping and no actual information embedded. In fact I doubt ET could get very much out of it (there are many other natural radio sources in space that can give you a repetitive signal).

Frankly, I doubt that we could make any sense of an ET signal and nor would ET be able to make any sense of any of our signals as it currently stands. What I think would be required would be a continuous transmission of a repetitive signal towards a given target over a rather long duration of time, but that would kinda require that we (or ET) would know where to direct signals. As you say, a short burst of data that we cannot decipher would be of about no use to anybody.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Interesting stuff indeed. Actually a short burst of data that we couldn't decipher would be of use. What supposedly distinguishes a synthetic man/alien made radio signal from naturally occurring radio signals is that they are narrow band. Narrow band radio signals supposedly do not occur in nature. The 'wow' signal was indeed a narrow band signal and was in the SETI 'water hole' around 1420.0mhz so is of great interest. Although a lot is known about the 'wow' signal the equipment at the 'Big Ear' radio telescope that detected it wasn't set up to demodulate (detect any information on) any received signal. This means they could tell it was narrow band, and they could tell roughly where it came from (Chi Saggitarii). But they couldn't tell if the signal contained any information. The fact that the signal was narrow band suggests it was an artificially generated signal originating from a device, the problem is, no-one really knows for sure that narrow band signals don't occur in nature. It may have come from some weird natural source unknown to us and not from a device at all.

Now if the 'wow' signal had contained modulation that we could have detected, even if it was in the form of "a short burst of data that we couldn't decipher" there would have been no doubt at all that the signal did in fact originate from a device, it was not some form of weird naturally occurring signal. That would have been very useful indeed.

TV transmitters have a low angle of radiation to maximise the signal strength to their viewers, not much escapes to space. The BMEWS radars similarly have a reasonable amount of atmospheric attenuation due to the radiation angle, although it would be a much higher angle than TV. BMEWS radar transmissions are around 450mhz I believe, I could be wrong of course, and are outside of the Hydrogen/Hydroxyl 'water hole'. This might not matter, aliens could be scrutinizing a much wider spectrum of frequencies than we do.

There have been very high power transmissions deliberately to space, controversially. The Americans and the Russians do have very large radio telescopes capable of generating the kind of ERP (Effective Radiated Power) that can and do apparently, push signals right across the galaxy. This risky endeavor is called METI, Messaging to Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence. A signal was sent from Aricibo to the area in the sky the 'wow' signal apparently came from using an ERP of 3 Terawatts back in the 70's. A scientist involved gave this as an example of the strength of the signal: If you were sitting on a planet in our nearest neighbouring star system and you could tune the appropriate frequency on your transistor radio you would be able to hear it loud and clear. This message was FSK data I believe, antique now, let alone in 220 years when it finally gets there. If there are any alien scientists out there that pick it up it'll certainly give them a good laugh. What's not so funny is what the message contained, amongst other stuff that could be very useful to any enemy was info on Human DNA. Good grief, where do we get these PhD's from?

The Aricibo radio telescope transmissions are so powerful that they use it to map the surface of planets in our solar system. They even used it to look at Jupiter, that's how they know it has no solid core, there was no 'echo' from the planet itself, just the moons. To get radio echos from moons around Jupiter you're talking serious signal strength going out past the planet into deep space.

Anyway, the bottom line is there are very powerful radio transmissions that are sent from this planet out into space deliberately, you don't even have to consider TV and Radar as far as being discovered by ET goes.

Edited by Occams Razor, 08 July 2012 - 12:33 PM.


#80    DeathRain2012

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 03:03 PM

if we just sent out diff kinds of music, ill bet that would get some attention. like some new age dub step.. we'll have them flash mobbin.


#81    Occams Razor

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 03:36 PM

View PostRobbo, on 26 June 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Yes, but that 'something' could be anything, like a passing beam of a neutron star. It was only detected once, which does seem to lean towards a natural event - if it was an attempt at communication I would have hoped they'd repeat it over a few days/hours etc. Perhaps whatever it was, wasn't for us - maybe we just got lucky and intercepted an alien transmission to a ship in Earth orbit....we'll probably never know.

I think you'll find beams from neutron stars are broadband, not narrow-band. And I think it very unlikely that an alien spacecraft would be using radio to communicate. Unless it was communicating with something fairly close to Earth of course. I think you're right about any real alien signal not being for us though. As you say, if that were the case they would keep repeating it to give us a fair chance of finding and decoding it.


#82    Occams Razor

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 03:59 PM

View Postbroombreaker, on 26 June 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

To Professor Hawking, Keep asking them questions about the universe. They will answer. Those small people with the very large eyes have been talking to you for along time. They like you. They said so.

You reckon? Hawking has been saying any visiting aliens are likely to be nasty for years.


#83    Occams Razor

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 04:03 PM

View PostCoffey, on 27 June 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:



Well our Main maths is Denary which is in Tens... It's thta way because we have 10 fingers. So if an Alien had 12 fingers he would have to figure that out as well. Then again i think they put the basic human aunotomy on the plaque, so maybe they will take note of the 10 fingers.

Yeah I did hear about that. Hope thye don't find the sound offensive. LOL

And they would only need three people for a quartet. "Handy".


#84    Robbo

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:02 PM

Like I said...the Wow signal could have been anything - alien communication being just one of those things...Until we get a repeat signal, it was just a freak 'wave' in a bandwidth we had the capability to receive.

"When you've done things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" - God entity

#85    Bildr

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:48 PM

View PostXanthurion2, on 27 June 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

i'm going to send them this message:

"Forgive my planet-mates of lesser intelligence for anything degrading or stupid they might have said. It is not their fault, they were "Born this Way." If you do recieve this message, please know that this planet is heading for it's own destruction and I am ashamed to even be a part of the homo sapien species. So if you want, maybe swing by and spice this world up a little. God knows it could use it. If you're ever in my area by the way (assuming you could find with basically no information) I am ready and willing to go with you, so feel free to shoot your little abductor beam down and "take me to your leader." That's just a little saying we have here, it's jus-you know, uhh...never mind...Anyway, if you need somebody to, I don't know, repair the ship or feed your little space-dog or something when you're visiting your parents, I am available. So, uh...yeah just drop on by...please?"
If i could, i would send them the same message, if a benevolent and caring civilization would answer me, of course!. To be real away from the incompetence & inefficiency of the Homo Sapient race to create a stable society..

Like Jacque Fresco said; ''I am afraid to live in the society we live in today. Our society cannot be maintained by this type of incompetency''


Edited by Bildr, 11 July 2012 - 11:49 PM.

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#86    cerberusxp

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:22 PM

Please don't enslave, destroy, put us in a zoo or eat us please.


#87    psyche101

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:19 AM

View PostDeathRain2012, on 08 July 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

if we just sent out diff kinds of music, ill bet that would get some attention. like some new age dub step.. we'll have them flash mobbin.



Beatles' 'Across the Universe' to Be Blasted Into Space



If we can still talk to the Voyager probes, now leaving the system, a communication method must be viable.

Edited by psyche101, 19 July 2012 - 01:21 AM.

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#88    Super-Fly

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:23 AM

Be funny if we replied, and they turned up.

Only to find they wanted our maccy d's or our box sets of Father Ted

i would find that funny, personally.

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#89    DONTEATUS

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:51 AM

We just better have lots of Box wine ready for them when they Land ! ANd All Look like Lucy & Ricky . "You got Some ESPLANING to DO LUCY "

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#90    Junior Chubb

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:42 AM

View PostSuper-Fly, on 19 July 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Be funny if we replied, and they turned up.

Only to find they wanted our maccy d's or our box sets of Father Ted

i would find that funny, personally.

Thanks,

Not as funny as they would, nothing is as funny as the first time you watch father Ted :tu:

I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to show me where the hell Helen of Annoy has been for the past couple of months.




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