173 replies to this topic

[SpiritWriter]

Seeker79, on 20 November 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

I sometimes wish I were involved with a church. That would be a lot of fun, but cringing during worship services probably wouldn't go over well. I have heard of a church that is nonspecific religion. Mabey I'll go check out what's going on over there.

I feel like this too... I liked my old church (at that time) because of the community, the instruction and the service but I can't be there anymore. Its been awhile since and I've been recently feeling the void.  I've been thinking of joining some political activist groups, or looking into the nonspecific religion churches (we have one at least out here too)... but I really don't know yet.

I am presently at a church but it is very small, there is nothing more to it than short Sunday services which are basically personal motivation, references to and thankfulness to God. I was happy with it at first, and still am to a certain degree, but by itself it is too simple... I need more too.

I'm sure if you keep looking (seeking lol) you will find something that at least semi-suits your needs. Sounds like since you are already a business owner and leader you are not interested in starting something of your own? That way your parameters could be decided by you, but then you'd have to put in a lot of time... probably better to join something already established and ran by another responsible party, maybe even an offset of a bigger church or group - a side organization that concentrates on a particular area...


..just thinking out loud

Edited by SpiritWriter, 25 November 2012 - 05:35 AM.

[Travelling Man]

Etu isn't a Freemason, and his idea of what "Original" Freemasonry is quite warped. Albert Pike was an OMG prolific writer in the 1800's that wrote what HE thought the Fraternity should be doing. The problem is that he was not in the mainstream of the organization. He was VERY knowledgeable, but he wanted us to go back to a Golden Age that never existed - and there is no proof of it ever existing.

As for the claim of "more than astrology", I already alluded to that in my previous posts. There are seven liberal arts and sciences: Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric (speaking and debating ability), Arithmetic, Music, Geometry and Astronomy (also called Astrology) - and all Freemasons are encouraged to study them all. Quite a bit of our Ritual work deals with these topics and the more you know, the more you will understand the meanings behind the Rituals.

As for al-Hakim and the Picatrix, while it is an interesting work and it set up the Scientific Method that we now use, to say that it is involved in Freemasonry or that we use it is akin to saying that we base our memberships upon Merriam Webster's Dictionary.

[Etu Malku]

Travelling Man, on 25 November 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

Etu isn't a Freemason, and his idea of what "Original" Freemasonry is quite warped. Albert Pike was an OMG prolific writer in the 1800's that wrote what HE thought the Fraternity should be doing. The problem is that he was not in the mainstream of the organization. He was VERY knowledgeable, but he wanted us to go back to a Golden Age that never existed - and there is no proof of it ever existing.

Albert Pike was elected Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite's Southern Jurisdiction in 1859. He remained Sovereign Grand Commander for the remainder of his life (a total of thirty-two years), devoting a large amount of his time to developing the rituals of the order.

Notably, he published a book called "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" in 1871.
Pike is still regarded in America as an eminent and influential Freemason.
"Let's clarify right at the outset: the vast majority of those who become Masons have no idea whatsoever who Pike was." - read more on Pike

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As for the claim of "more than astrology", I already alluded to that in my previous posts. There are seven liberal arts and sciences: Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric (speaking and debating ability), Arithmetic, Music, Geometry and Astronomy (also called Astrology) - and all Freemasons are encouraged to study them all. Quite a bit of our Ritual work deals with these topics and the more you know, the more you will understand the meanings behind the Rituals.

Isn't Astronomy different than Astrology?

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As for al-Hakim and the Picatrix, while it is an interesting work and it set up the Scientific Method that we now use, to say that it is involved in Freemasonry or that we use it is akin to saying that we base our memberships upon Merriam Webster's Dictionary.

Huh?

[Likely Guy]

Etu Malku, on 23 November 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Actually I'm not a Mason, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn!

In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

[monk 56]

Albert Pike's tomb is in the House of the Temple in Washington DC, probably the most powerful masonic temple in the world, how masons align their temples is strictly their affair, i only get uneasy when Sirius and Alnilam are used in politics, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia....e_of_the_Temple

You will note that groundbreaking took place on 31st May 1911, ancient Greek day marker was applied, being sunset of previous day, when Sirius set with the Sun at location.   Cornerstone ceremony happened on 18th October 1911 and the building was dedicated on 18th October 1915, i'm only showing the 1911 alignment as the 1915 date will only show the same, astronomy graph below showing that midnight day marker was used with Sirius rising:-

http://2012forum.com...=3508&mode=view

I thought George Washington's innauguration would interest, time isn't recorded in any notes on 30th April 1789 at Federal Hall, New York, however there hangs a painting in the House of the Temple that dates from the period, which has a clock in the background showing the time of 12:35pm, link below:-

http://www.dcpages.c...c05094.jpg.html

George Washington was too humble to use a Sirius alignment for himself, but he did pick a great star, being the Royal Persian Star Regulus, very apt really as it means "LITTLE KING", at 12:35pm at location on 30th April 1789, Regulus was rising along the horizon, astronomy graph below:-

http://2012forum.com...=3628&mode=view

[Etu Malku]

Likely Guy, on 25 November 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

Obviously you never saw the commercial advertisement, unfortunately all wit & pith has been lost to you.

[DONTEATUS]

Nothing is Free in this world !

[Travelling Man]

Etu Malku, on 25 November 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Albert Pike was elected Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite's Southern Jurisdiction in 1859. He remained Sovereign Grand Commander for the remainder of his life (a total of thirty-two years), devoting a large amount of his time to developing the rituals of the order.

Notably, he published a book called "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" in 1871.
Pike is still regarded in America as an eminent and influential Freemason.
"Let's clarify right at the outset: the vast majority of those who become Masons have no idea whatsoever who Pike was."

It's amazing what someone with a little knowledge and no understanding claims to understand.

Pike was head of the Scottish Rite for a long time - and the Scottish Rite is NOT Freemasonry - it is an appendent body. If you were a Freemason - or studied on the subject, you'd understand the difference. It's an associated club, separate from Freemasonry.

He wrote some 130 books, and he USED to be considered the go-to man for information on... wait for it... THE SCOTTISH RITE, not the Blue Lodge. There is a profound difference between the two. Nowadays, the only people that hold him up as the most important man in Masonic history are Anti-masons.

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Isn't Astronomy different than Astrology?

Yes, now it is, but before astronomy was an established science, most sages and learned people called it astrology - the study of the stars. In the mid 1800's, the terms were used interchangeably... and even until the 1950's it was very common to use "astrology" to label the actual science of astronomy.

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Huh?

Do you understand now what trouble can be caused by spouting things off without fully understanding them? If you had read the Picatrix or had just studied ABOUT the Picatrix, you'd understand that it is the cornerstone in the scientific community, and laid out the process by which a learned man could evaluate his surroundings by using what we now know as the Scientific Method - hypotheses, testing, recording, conclusions - the whole works was laid out in that great tome.

Would you care to try to sound educated again, or are you going to admit that you are discussing something that you have not studied or contemplated, and that you would rather just rattle things off that others have said without actually checking their veracity? There is no shame in saying, "I just don't know."

[Etu Malku]

Travelling Man, on 25 November 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

[/font]
It's amazing what someone with a little knowledge and no understanding claims to understand.

Pike was head of the Scottish Rite for a long time - and the Scottish Rite is NOT Freemasonry - it is an appendent body. If you were a Freemason - or studied on the subject, you'd understand the difference. It's an associated club, separate from Freemasonry.

He wrote some 130 books, and he USED to be considered the go-to man for information on... wait for it... THE SCOTTISH RITE, not the Blue Lodge. There is a profound difference between the two. Nowadays, the only people that hold him up as the most important man in Masonic history are Anti-masons.

The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction in the United States often omits the and), commonly known as simply the Scottish Rite, is one of several Rites of the worldwide fraternity known as Freemasonry.

Whereas it is officially recognized in the United States as an extension of Freemasonry, The Scottish Rite is one of the appendant bodies of Freemasonry that a "Master Mason" may join for further exposure to the principles of Freemasonry.

So obviously Pike had been a Master Mason. Are you certain you're in the right club? LOL

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Yes, now it is, but before astronomy was an established science, most sages and learned people called it astrology - the study of the stars. In the mid 1800's, the terms were used interchangeably... and even until the 1950's it was very common to use "astrology" to label the actual science of astronomy.

Right, and this is 2012.

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Do you understand now what trouble can be caused by spouting things off without fully understanding them? If you had read the Picatrix or had just studied ABOUT the Picatrix, you'd understand that it is the cornerstone in the scientific community, and laid out the process by which a learned man could evaluate his surroundings by using what we now know as the Scientific Method - hypotheses, testing, recording, conclusions - the whole works was laid out in that great tome.

The reason I said "huh" was your statement of which I didn't understand:

Quote

As for al-Hakim and the Picatrix, while it is an interesting work and it set up the Scientific Method that we now use, to say that it is involved in Freemasonry or that we use it is akin to saying that we base our memberships upon Merriam Webster's Dictionary.

Quote

Would you care to try to sound educated again, or are you going to admit that you are discussing something that you have not studied or contemplated, and that you would rather just rattle things off that others have said without actually checking their veracity? There is no shame in saying, "I just don't know."

I am not Mason, and I am not an expert on Freemasonry, I am on the other hand well read on the Picatrix.

Albert Pike was considered THE authority on Freemasonry, for you to ignore this throws red flags up as your own validation as a Mason.
Here is an article on exactly your view of Pike and why you are completely wrong in your assertion of his worth in Freemasonry.
http://freemasonrywa...pikeandkkk.html

[Likely Guy]

Etu Malku, on 26 November 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Here is an article on exactly your view of Pike and why you are completely wrong in your assertion of his worth in Freemasonry.
http://freemasonrywa...pikeandkkk.html

See, I can do it too.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/pike.htm

I'll save you some time regarding Pike's so called connection to the KKK.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/kkk.htm

Edited by Likely Guy, 26 November 2012 - 03:32 AM.

[Etu Malku]

After speaking to a friend of mine who used to be a Mason this is what I was told:

"The way it works in some places is that the first three degrees, the third and final degree being Master Mason. That is called The Blue Lodge. At this point you can join "Appendant Bodies". These are Masonic style Orders that require members to be a Master Mason to join. The Scottish Rite can be worked as a stand-alone Masonic Order, including the first three degrees, but it can also accept the first three degrees that individuals receive from a Blue Lodge and take them through the system from the 4th degree on."
  Yes, he is an important figure in Freemasons and developed the Scottish Rite which along the lines of the York Rite. He wrote Morals and Dogma which is the book of the 32degrees.
  Though in Freemasonry there are only 3 recognized degree's Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master Mason. So in a sense he is correct, however, you have to be a Mason to be in the Scottish Rite, which I once was."

[Etu Malku]

Likely Guy, on 26 November 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

See, I can do it too.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/pike.htm

I'll save you some time regarding Pike's so called connection to the KKK.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/kkk.htm

I'm not sure what you believe you "can do too" . . . I already posted that link to that article.
As for the KKK, this topic was not being discussed, it was merely mentioned in the article I linked to . . . it is besides the point.
Good find there Columbus!

[ZaraKitty]

My pop is a mason, you need a lot of money and influence to 'get in'.

[Likely Guy]

Etu Malku, on 26 November 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you believe you "can do too" . . . I already posted that link to that article.
As for the KKK, this topic was not being discussed, it was merely mentioned in the article I linked to . . . it is besides the point.
Good find there Columbus!

Yes, the KKK was not being discussed but you linked us to an article, titled, "Proof that Freemasonry is lieing about Albert Pike and the Ku Klux Klan".No one's that dense, so I'll give you the benefit.

[monk 56]

Hi Etu Malku,

I'm not against you, and i would agree Southern Jurisdiction Masonry associated with the House of the Temple, as shown on thread section #95 is not irregular fringe freemasonry, please note that i left astronomy graph for 18th October 1911. What happened in Washington DC on 18th September 1947, that will have an alignment to Alnilam, Belt of Orion, the other star that masons follow!

Please find a quote by Albert Pike about the Blazing Star of Freemasonry and Sirius being connected.

Some U.S. naval aircraft from aircraft carriers will have skull and bones on tail fin, however we must be careful as this symbol is also used by irregular fringe groups, picture below:-

http://en.wikipedia....net_VFA-103.jpg

The Skull and Bones is a symbol also used by regular masons in the third degree tracing boards shown below:-

http://www.maidstone...cing Boards.htm

SO WHAT HAPPENED IN WASHINGTON DC ON 18th SEPTEMBER 1947, clue is H. Truman.

Edited by monk 56, 26 November 2012 - 04:39 PM.