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Obama Total Disregard Congress or Consitution


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#91    Harte

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 01:11 AM

Really?

When did the Democrats ever do this?

Why should the Republicans cede their values to those of the Democrats who verbally and on television absolutely refused to negotiate anything at all with them?

Harte

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#92    spacecowboy342

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 01:47 AM

View PostHarte, on 01 January 2014 - 01:11 AM, said:

Really?

When did the Democrats ever do this?

Why should the Republicans cede their values to those of the Democrats who verbally and on television absolutely refused to negotiate anything at all with them?

Harte
Seriously? Do you think this is the first time we have had a different majority in each house of congress? I promise you it isn't. And yet before Obama's presidency they always manged to come up with a budget compromise. The republican leadership determined from the start they would do everything they could to undermine his presidency. They have admitted this. The republican's idea of negotiation is for dems to give in to all their demands. Repubs need to stop believing their own propaganda spoonfed to the public by Fox news and understand the poor and middle class are tired of kow towing to the rich. The Koch brothers don't own everyone


#93    Harte

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 01:58 AM

Is see.

So to your mind, it is the Republican party's duty to rubber-stamp every Democrat bill.  And please, don't open your mouth to make a single peep while doing so.

Harte

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#94    spacecowboy342

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 02:11 AM

View PostHarte, on 01 January 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Is see.

So to your mind, it is the Republican party's duty to rubber-stamp every Democrat bill.  And please, don't open your mouth to make a single peep while doing so.

Harte
Absolutely not. Perish the thought. The repubs do control one house of congress and so have enough political clout to force concessions. But to continuously keep trying to pass the same thing again and again without compromise is just childish. How many times did they do this with Obamacare? 40?50? I forget now the exact number, but what was the purpose? And what purpose, in the senate to filibuster more appointees than in the history of the country? Even Tip O'Neil at the height of his power worked with the repubs. I didn't agree with a lot of the policies of the elder George Bush but I long for the days when republicans like that who at least had some sense had some say.


#95    Harte

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 09:27 PM

Where was this bipartisanship when the Congress rammed through the ACA without one iota of compromise, disparaging Republican suggestions and concerns as "pushing granny over the cliff"?

One question is, when does entitlement reform get even a hearing?  Will we wait until we can no longer make the payments and then cut everyone back?

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#96    spacecowboy342

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 10:42 PM

View PostHarte, on 01 January 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

Where was this bipartisanship when the Congress rammed through the ACA without one iota of compromise, disparaging Republican suggestions and concerns as "pushing granny over the cliff"?

One question is, when does entitlement reform get even a hearing?  Will we wait until we can no longer make the payments and then cut everyone back?

Harte
When they rammed ACA through they had majorities in both houses of congress. Does majority rule mean nothing anymore in your world?


#97    Neognosis

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 10:47 PM

Quote

Where was this bipartisanship when the Congress rammed through the ACA without one iota of compromise, disparaging Republican suggestions and concerns as "pushing granny over the cliff"?

ARE YOU KIDDING?

If the ACA fails, it will be because it is NOTHING BUT COMPROMISE.

What we need is a single payer system.


#98    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 10:56 PM

View PostNeognosis, on 01 January 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

ARE YOU KIDDING?

If the ACA fails, it will be because it is NOTHING BUT COMPROMISE.

What we need is a single payer system.
Nah, what you need is the government to get involved as a Health Care provider in the Health Care Provision market, one of the players.
Once upon a time here in Oz, we had a government run bank. It went gangbusters until everyone whinged about it affecting competition (because they didn't (couldn't IIRC) charge interest on loans, everyone was getting loans from them and so on) and it was privatised. Anyway, that's what you need, a government health care provider. Cheap, easily accessible health care but as one of the players in the market rather then trying to control the market.

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#99    Harte

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 05:22 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 01 January 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

When they rammed ACA through they had majorities in both houses of congress. Does majority rule mean nothing anymore in your world?
Shoe on the other foot.  Ever heard of it?

I thought you were claiming that compromise is to be desired. Do you now assert that compromise is not desireable when you have a majority in both houses?

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
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Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#100    Gromdor

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 05:57 AM

I think one of the problems is the fact that congress isn't doing anything, so Obama just steps in and does what he wants.


#101    coolguy

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:14 AM

Obama is a dictator he dont care about congress or rules


#102    spacecowboy342

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:48 PM

View PostHarte, on 02 January 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

Shoe on the other foot.  Ever heard of it?

I thought you were claiming that compromise is to be desired. Do you now assert that compromise is not desireable when you have a majority in both houses?

Harte
When you have a majority in both houses and the presidency, it would seem the people have spoken and you have a clear mandate to pursue your policies. When congress is divided compromise is necessary. Again, what is the purpose of filibustering every federal appointment? I could see the necessity at times if an appointment is particularly bad, but every appointment? This is akin to a 4 year old stamping his feet at nap time. If the people didn't favor Obama's policies then we would have that mormon guy running things, and liberals like me would be whining about dictatorship. Calling Obama a dictator for exercising his constitutional authority is just sour grapes. If you don't like the losses of freedom we are enduring then join me in calling for the repeal of the patriot act, the greatest affront to civil liberties since the Nuremburg laws


#103    Neognosis

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:19 AM

Quote

I think one of the problems is the fact that congress isn't doing anything, so Obama just steps in and does what he wants.

You think that refusing to fund a law that was found to be constitutional by refusing to pass a budget, thereby risking and damaging the country's economy is doing nothing?


#104    Harte

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:33 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 02 January 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

When you have a majority in both houses and the presidency, it would seem the people have spoken and you have a clear mandate to pursue your policies. When congress is divided compromise is necessary.
And when the country is against the policy as well?  Is that the time to dismiss it as a bunch of hicks that don't know what they're talking about, or can we also say that about the re-election?

View Postspacecowboy342, on 02 January 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Again, what is the purpose of filibustering every federal appointment? I could see the necessity at times if an appointment is particularly bad, but every appointment? This is akin to a 4 year old stamping his feet at nap time.
Actually, it is the minority making the majority pay for their actions.

I just noticed, I'm answering your questions.  Will you now consider mine about when it is appropriate to address entitlements?  Can such a common-sense action be taken in the face of "pushing grandma over the cliff" ads that basically win the election for the party willing to use such ridiculous claims and take such violent advantage of the demonstrated ignorance of the masses?

View Postspacecowboy342, on 02 January 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

If the people didn't favor Obama's policies then we would have that mormon guy running things,
The American people are against the ACA as it was written and implemented.  So, you only believe polls with the official stamps of the secretaries of states of the individual states once every four years and these other polls are meaningless/?

View Postspacecowboy342, on 02 January 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Calling Obama a dictator for exercising his constitutional authority is just sour grapes. If you don't like the losses of freedom we are enduring then join me in calling for the repeal of the patriot act, the greatest affront to civil liberties since the Nuremburg laws
I haven't called him a dictator.  He's about as far from a dictator as you can get.

I will say he's more of a dictator to his own people than he is to the parts of the world over which he held at least some sway on the day he entered office.

That portion of the world is today much smaller.

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#105    Gromdor

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:54 AM

View PostNeognosis, on 03 January 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

You think that refusing to fund a law that was found to be constitutional by refusing to pass a budget, thereby risking and damaging the country's economy is doing nothing?

Yes.





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