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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#1081    Abramelin

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 03:59 PM

To start with something very off-topic... your father and my uncle could very well have known eachother. My uncle served in Hollandia (New Guinea) if I remember well (1948 or a year or so later) and eventually married an Indonesian woman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayapura
http://nl.wikipedia....landia_(plaats)

==

Of course people can study languages on their own, just by being in close contact with the people whose language you want to learn.

And the ex I always keep moaning about speaks 3 or 4 languages, and she never learned them in school, but apparently she picks it up very easily.


The reason I said Old English must have been very close if not almost similar to ancient Frisian (Old Frisian is from the 12th century) is because of this:


Discovering the Dutch: On Culture and Society of the Netherlands - Emmeline Besamusca, Jaap Verheul

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

From page 89:

The absence of a serious language barrier between Anglo-Saxons, Frisians and Saxons, who were able to understand one another without too many problems, allowed the use of insular texts such as these in the conversion of Germanic-speaking pagans on the continent.

This is from a forum (by a "Espadachin"):

As for historicity, Frisian and English used to be mutually intelligible. There are stories of English missionaries (Sts. Boniface and Willibrord, notably) coming to Frisia in the 7th and 8th centuries, and they would be understood perfectly well by the people there. English (or better, Anglo-Saxon) was originally from Oost-Friesland and south Danmark anyways.

Reply by "Frank06":

I am inclined to believe you, but this is very hard to verify, any which way. The first (extensive) texts in Frisian date only from the 13th century (Old(!) Frisian).

So we don't have any contemporary material that can be used to compare Old-English (Anglo-Saxon, if you want) and, well, Pre-Old-Frisian from the 7th or 8th century.

Reply by Espadachin:

Admittedly there aren't texts to compare for Old Frisian/Anglo-Saxon, I'm just going off of what was in Bede's History of the English Church (written 8th century) as well as Letters of St. Boniface. There was another story in the Life of Wilfred, an English saint from Northumbria, where he was shipwrecked and landed on the Frisian coast. It said that he had no problem understanding the Frisian, as the language was very close.

I also recall a story about St. Boniface (also originally an Anglo-Saxon) speaking with Frisian pirates near Dokkum (in Fryslan), shortly before they cut his head off.

http://forum.wordref...31924&langid=13


So I reasoned that if Old English was very similar to pre-Old Frisian, why is the language used in Frisian law texts from many ages later so different, and why is the language used in the OLB so similar to these later Frisian texts?
The OLB language should have been close(r ) to Old English.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 September 2012 - 04:14 PM.


#1082    Otharus

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:23 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 September 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

The OLB language should have been close(r ) to Old English.

I donot agree. It is closest to some of the local and ancient dialects from Westflanders to Northfriesland.

That there are not many written records of those dialects, does not mean they did not exist.

But they had to exist, as - by unwritten laws of evolution (of consciousness ~ bewustzijn ~ BIWOSTWARA) - all dialects obviously have a shared origin.

If the language, stories and laws of the OLB were invented by 19th century masterminds, 'Fryan' is an insanely good reconstruction of a proto-Frisian, aboriginal language.

Unprecedented and yet unchallenged.

A good movie about it will grow into a historical, hysterical hype.

It will spread into the WWW like a free radical.

If that is what Wralda wants.

Edited by Otharus, 09 September 2012 - 06:34 PM.


#1083    Abramelin

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:52 PM

Post something from early medieval Westflanders or Northfriesland sources.

You can't because there is no source that old.

==

The OLB language is too close to 12th century Frisian texts.

Old English is supposed to be almost the same as Pre-Old-Frisian. And it looks nothing like the OLB language.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 September 2012 - 06:52 PM.


#1084    Abramelin

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:54 PM

A good movie about it will grow into a historical, hysterical hype.


That's all you got?


If that is what Wralda wants.


Religious after all, eh?


.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 September 2012 - 07:12 PM.


#1085    The Puzzler

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:11 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 September 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

So I reasoned that if Old English was very similar to pre-Old Frisian, why is the language used in Frisian law texts from many ages later so different, and why is the language used in the OLB so similar to these later Frisian texts?
The OLB language should have been close(r ) to Old English.

.

Do you mean in the way some of the words sound more Dutch than English or something? Like they have reached the below process too early?

However, despite their common origins, Anglic and Frisian have become very divergent, largely due to the heavy Norse and French influences on English and similarly heavy Dutch and Low German influences on Frisian. The result is that Frisian has now far more in common with Dutch and the adjacent Low German dialects, bringing it into the West Germanic dialect continuum, whereas Anglic has stronger North Germanic and non-Germanic influences than the languages on the mainland.



http://en.wikipedia....isian_languages

Edited by The Puzzler, 10 September 2012 - 02:11 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#1086    Abramelin

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:18 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 10 September 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

Do you mean in the way some of the words sound more Dutch than English or something? Like they have reached the below process too early?

However, despite their common origins, Anglic and Frisian have become very divergent, largely due to the heavy Norse and French influences on English and similarly heavy Dutch and Low German influences on Frisian. The result is that Frisian has now far more in common with Dutch and the adjacent Low German dialects, bringing it into the West Germanic dialect continuum, whereas Anglic has stronger North Germanic and non-Germanic influences than the languages on the mainland.



http://en.wikipedia....isian_languages

I mean that Old English is very similar to pre-Old Frisian, and so much that those missionaries had no problems talking with the Frisians.

That changed centuries after, when the late medieval Frisians used a language similar to the OLB....


#1087    Otharus

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:40 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 September 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

Religious after all, eh?

nur begeistert

you should check the meaning of "religion"

believing in the world (or the origin of consciousness) is not the same as worshiping an old book


#1088    Otharus

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:02 PM


you have come to know

how much superior poverty without a master

is to being a slave with wealth


From Boudicca's speech, as translated from 'Epitome' 62.3.1 by Cassius Dio,

as read in 'Boudicca', by Marguerite Johnson (2012), p.84.


p.35

"In Roman times, the territory of the Iceni included Norfolk and part of Suffolk; to their west were the Corieltauvi, to the south, the Trinovantes and Catuvellauni (...). During migrations in the sixth century BC from Belgium and Holland across the North Sea, northwest Europeans established communities along the Norfolk rivers and marshes with peaceful integration of the indigenous population."


Boudica (alternative spelling: Boudicca), also known as Boadicea and known in Welsh as Buddug (d. AD 60 or 61) was queen of the British Iceni tribe who led an uprising against the occupying forces of the Roman Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica


~ ~ ~


Iceni, from Belgium and 'Holland', 6th century BCE, that sounds like 'our' people, the Fryans or proto-Frisians.

Queen Boudicca could easily have been a character from the OLB.



#1089    The Puzzler

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:52 PM

View PostOtharus, on 17 September 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:


you have come to know
how much superior poverty without a master
is to being a slave with wealth

From Boudicca's speech, as translated from 'Epitome' 62.3.1 by Cassius Dio,
as read in 'Boudicca', by Marguerite Johnson (2012), p.84.

p.35
"In Roman times, the territory of the Iceni included Norfolk and part of Suffolk; to their west were the Corieltauvi, to the south, the Trinovantes and Catuvellauni (...). During migrations in the sixth century BC from Belgium and Holland across the North Sea, northwest Europeans established communities along the Norfolk rivers and marshes with peaceful integration of the indigenous population."

Boudica (alternative spelling: Boudicca), also known as Boadicea and known in Welsh as Buddug (d. AD 60 or 61) was queen of the British Iceni tribe who led an uprising against the occupying forces of the Roman Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

~ ~ ~

Iceni, from Belgium and 'Holland', 6th century BCE, that sounds like 'our' people, the Fryans or proto-Frisians.
Queen Boudicca could easily have been a character from the OLB.
Yes, fierce with a sword and tall like Adela herself.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#1090    Abramelin

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:23 PM

According to the OLB itself, people (those who were banned from Fryan lands) were resettled in Britain, the Fryan penal colony. And that was before 2194 BC.

Otharus (and welcome back, btw!), you will remember what I posted in the OLB thread on the Historum site, about the Irish knowing about the ancient Frisians ("Fresen"), sometimes equalling them with the Fomorians (pirates)?

I posted a whole and long list about how they were known in ancient Ireland.

Maybe I will repost that whole list here.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 September 2012 - 03:43 PM.


#1091    Abramelin

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:32 PM

I found something else to ponder about...

It's always good to let some topic rest for a while and focus on other topics. By that you sometimes encounter stories and facts you would never have taken into consideration if you had stayed with the original topic.

I have been reading a lot about Göbekli Tepe and the Haran area between Turkey and Syria.



Then I found this:

Etymology
From the Semitic root Q-D-Š, meaning Holy. Kadesh means "the holy city" in reference to the followers of Qetesh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadesh



If you read up on it, you'll find out that Kadesh went into oblivion after the Sea Peoples had invaded the area.

Kadesh..... it could have been a Phoenician city.

My point: we have been discussing the OLB city of "Kadik" many times here.

The original Phoenician name of the city was "Gadera" or names similar.

Later - it is said - the Romans changed it into "Gades", and much later it became "Cadiz", or "Kadix" as it was spelled in medieval times.

My point: couldn't refugees/emigrants from Phoenician (?) Kadesh have renamed Gadera after they arrived there?

Or was it an already existing alternative Phoenician name for the city, based on their goddess with that name?

.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 September 2012 - 03:44 PM.


#1092    Otharus

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:56 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Kadesh
Kadik
Gadera
Gades
Cadiz
Kadix

Yes, it looks like those names might refer to the same place.


#1093    lilthor

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:59 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

According to the OLB itself, people (those who were banned from Fryan lands) were resettled in Britain, the Fryan penal colony. And that was before 2194 BC.

Posted Image

Who were the Taexali and is their tribal name related to the island in North Holland?


#1094    Otharus

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:03 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

According to the OLB itself, people (those who were banned from Fryan lands) were resettled in Britain, the Fryan penal colony.
And that was before 2194 BC.

What fascinates me, is that they migrated in the 6th century BC, the time when the first version of the OLB would have been compiled.
If we believe the OLB, this was a time of threat (hence the copying of texts from citadels), so fleeing elsewhere would have made sense.

Quote

(and welcome back, btw!)

thanks :-)
(moving to Leuven this week)


#1095    Otharus

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:13 PM

View Postlilthor, on 17 September 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

... the Taexali and is their tribal name related to the island in North Holland?

Probably, but not confirmed by any source, as far as I know.

I also suspect a relation to Toxandria/ Taxandria and Thessaloniki .

But what relation, and if there's any evidence for it, I don't know.





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