Mann caught lying.... AGAIN

[Professor Buzzkill]

http://www.nationalr...rick-mark-steyn

According to the Nobel Committee, the above certificate is fraudulent. Apparently Mann has added the bottom half to the original certificate which was not awarded to any individual, but to the IPCC.

All this after the now infamous hockey stick fiasco.

Can you take this guy seriously at all? Are you concerned that he is one of the chief climate change advisers to the UN and other governments?

I usually don't like to debate the person, rather than the facts. But if the "facts" are coming from this guy, you can safely assume they are biased.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Professor Buzzkill

[notoverrated]

what a weirdo.

[Guest]

That document looks like it was issued by the IPCC in recognition for Manns contribution to their work. It certainly doesn't look like it was issued by the Nobel committee. As for the rest it reads like a case of very sour grapes by a man who has been asked to put up or shut up in his slander of Mann.

If the unlikely case was that Mann fabricated this document - then we might have a discussion.

And when you can come up with a legitimate fact based critique of the Mann Hockey Stick - which isn't based upon the discredited McKitrick paper, we might have a discussion of the "Hockey Stick farce" as you so eloquently put it.

Br Cornelius

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest

[Guest]

Lets see what Mann actually claims on his Facebook website;

Dr. Mann is a climate scientist whose research has focused on global warming. In 2007, along with Vice President Al Gore and his colleagues of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for having "created an ever-broader informed consensus about the connection between human activities and global warming."

https://www.facebook...437351706321037

To my jaundiced eye that seems to describe exactly what happened, he and the other authors of the IPCC report all jointly received the Nobel Peace Prize for their work on climate change. I cannot see how anyone could interpret that as Mann claiming he directly received the Award.

The only fault I can see is possibly an overabundance of pride at been associated with an important international endeavour which was recognized as such by the Nobel committee.

As they say "move along folks, nothing to see here".

Br Cornelius

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest

[Doug1029]

I cannot see how anyone could interpret that as Mann claiming he directly received the Award.

Apparently, Professor Buzzkill can.

Mann has filed a libel suit against some of his detractors. Let's wait and see what the judge says.

Doug

[Guest]

Manns detractors will clutch at any straw offered to them at this stage. They are doing this since they realize they are going to have to back up their dubious claims in a court of law and that they will lose and the game will be up. They realize that over a decade of slander in the popular media is about to end and they will have to apologize and pay damages for their crimes.

This all smells of desperation at this stage.

Br Cornelius

[Little Fish]

Lets see what Mann actually claims on his Facebook website;

no, let's not, let's not at all do that.

let's look what Mann actually claims in the lawsuit:

"Dr Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize" - says Dr Mann.

http://legaltimes.ty...n-complaint.pdf

Let's also look at what Geir Lundestad, Director, Professor, or The Norwegian Nobel Institute says

"1) Michael Mann has never been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

2) He did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (and to Al Gore) and made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma.

3) The text underneath the diploma is entirely his own. We issued only the diploma to the IPCC as such. No individuals on the IPCC side received anything in 2007.

Unfortunately we often experience that members of organizations that have indeed been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize issue various forms of personal diplomas to indicate that they personally have received the Nobel Peace Prize. They have not."

let's see what the Nobel Committee say a second time:

"Cooke: Hello there, do you speak English?

Nobel Committee: Yes, can I help you?

Cooke: I’m a writer. I’m wondering if I could ask you about previous winners of the Nobel Peace Prize?

Nobel Committee: Oh, could you speak a little bit louder. It’s difficult for me to hear.

Cooke: Sorry. I’m trying to look for some information about previous winners of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Nobel Committee: Which one?

Cooke: I was wondering, has Dr. Michael Mann ever won the Nobel Peace Prize?

Nobel Committee: No, no. He has never won the Nobel prize.

Cooke: He’s never won it?

Nobel Committee: No.

Cooke: Oh, it says on his-

Nobel Committee: The organization won it. It’s not a personal prize to people belonging to an organization.

Cooke: Okay. So if I were to write that he’d won it, that would be incorrect?

Nobel Committee: That is incorrect, yes. Is it you that sent me an email today? I got an e-mail from our Stockholm office regarding Michael Mann.

Cooke: Oh. No, I didn’t send you an e-mail.

Nobel Committee: Oh. So what’s your name?

Cooke: My name is Charles Cooke.

Nobel Committee: And you work for?

Cooke: I write for National Review.

Nobel Committee: Okay, because I’ve got something from Boston and NY Envirionmental Examiner that asked about the same thing.

Cooke: Oh, okay. Well maybe this is a big question. Okay, but he hasn’t won it. That is the answer.

Nobel Committee: No, he has not won it at all.

Cooke: Okay. Perfect. Thank you very much.

Nobel Committee: Thank you. You’re welcome. Bye bye."

http://www.nationalr...rles-c-w-cooke#

this is going to be a fascinating libel lawsuit, Mann's lawsuit claims "fraudulent research" is slander against his reputation claiming to hold prestige that he doesn't actually hold.

Oh, shouldn't McIntyre and Monckton also be able to claim they were awarded the Nobel prize since they worked for the IPCC with Michael Mann, what makes Mann think he's so special? the Hubris! Hilarious stuff!

[Guest]

Oh, shouldn't McIntyre and Monckton also be able to claim they were awarded the Nobel prize since they worked for the IPCC with Michael Mann, what makes Mann think he's so special? the Hubris! Hilarious stuff!

Definitely they should

I wonder if they will though.

Heres the actual quote which is somewhat more similar to the facebook quote than your version;

"The work of Dr Mann and the IPCC has received considerable accolades within the scientific community. In 2007, Dr Mann shared the Nobel Peace Prize with the other IPCC authors for their work in climate change, including the development of the Hockey Stick Graph".

Someone definitely mangled that quote somewhere along the line - I wonder why ?

Its an interesting semantic twist to ask if the constituents of a body can be said to be that body.

Br Cornelius

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest

[Little Fish]

Definitely they should

so you disagree with the Nobel Prize committee.

...wondering if Mann will sue the Nobel Committee.

[Rlyeh]

From http://climatedepot....bel-certificate

"The IPCC issued the certificates with the text on them to IPCC participants, including Mann. Mann did not add the text himself. Here is a photo of a UN IPCC issued certificate"

http://evanmills.lbl...certificate.pdf

I suppose Evan Mills is another liar who added his name to the certificate?

Edited October 29, 2012 by Rlyeh

[Guest]

so you disagree with the Nobel Prize committee.

...wondering if Mann will sue the Nobel Committee.

Maybe if you accept the misrepresentation of the quote.

Clutching at straws like a drowning man

Br Cornelius

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest

[Little Fish]

From http://climatedepot....bel-certificate

"The IPCC issued the certificates with the text on them to IPCC participants, including Mann. Mann did not add the text himself. Here is a photo of a UN IPCC issued certificate"

http://evanmills.lbl...certificate.pdf

I suppose Evan Mills is another liar who added his name to the certificate?

Evans Mills does not claim in a lawsuit whose purpose is to establish his reputation, that "Evan Mills was awarded the Nobel Prize".

this is the point and why it will probably be thrown out by the judge. you cannot make false statements when filing a lawsuit.

[Guest]

Evans Mills does not claim in a lawsuit whose purpose is to establish his reputation, that "Evan Mills was awarded the Nobel Prize".

this is the point and why it will probably be thrown out by the judge. you cannot make false statements when filing a lawsuit.

The statement was that Mann and the other authors of the IPCC report received the Nobel prize. Again you can argue whether the members of the IPCC are the IPCC or not - but the statement is at worst ambigious and certainly not dishonest.

As for the other part - the certificate is a genuine document issued to all members of the IPCC and as such he is perfectly entitled to use it to show that he as a member was part of the receiving body. lets actually look at what you claimed he did;

"He did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (and to Al Gore) and made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma."

That in of itself is slander since it is in no way true and suggests misconduct which never took place.

There was an attempt here to distort the statement Mann made to imply that he directly had received the Nobel prize - but he never actually said that and so it is unfair to say he misrepresented anything. Since this makes up no part of the Libal action I doubt it will have any effect on the outcome of the case.

Why couldn't the people making this claim actually quote the words of Mann ??

Br Cornelius

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest

[Little Fish]

Heres the actual quote which is somewhat more similar to the facebook quote than your version;

"my version"?

it is point 2 in the introduction of Mann's lawsuit, go check it.

Someone definitely mangled that quote somewhere along the line - I wonder why ?

conspiracy mongering again, go check point 2 in the introduction.

Its an interesting semantic twist to ask if the constituents of a body can be said to be that body.

quote from the Nobel committee as already given and not read by you.

"Unfortunately we often experience that members of organizations that have indeed been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize issue various forms of personal diplomas to indicate that they personally have received the Nobel Peace Prize. They have not."

so its not "a semantical twist", its clear from the words of the Nobel Committee that if an organisation receives the nobel prize, the members of that body cannot claim they personally received the prize, yet Mann's lawsuit states (introduction, point 2), word for word - "Dr Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize".. you keep spinning but everyone else seems to get it.

[Guest]

"my version"?

it is point 2 in the introduction of Mann's lawsuit, go check it.

conspiracy mongering again, go check point 2 in the introduction.

quote from the Nobel committee as already given and not read by you.

"Unfortunately we often experience that members of organizations that have indeed been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize issue various forms of personal diplomas to indicate that they personally have received the Nobel Peace Prize. They have not."

so its not "a semantical twist", its clear from the words of the Nobel Committee that if an organisation receives the nobel prize, the members of that body cannot claim they personally received the prize, yet Mann's lawsuit states (introduction, point 2), word for word - "Dr Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize".. you keep spinning but everyone else seems to get it.

The IPCC issued the diploma not Michael Mann - if you read what the Nobel Commitee actually said - you will see that they are referring to members issuing diplomas to themselves - that never actually happened. Michael Mann had no part in issuing that document and that document clearly states that it was issued by the IPCC in recognition of the contribution Micheal made to the report.

The IPCC clearly considers that its constituent contributors are worthy of equal recognition to the body itself.

I did read it and actually understood it

Br Cornelius

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest

[Little Fish]

The statement was that Mann and the other authors of the IPCC report received the Nobel prize. Again you can argue whether the members of the IPCC are the IPCC or not - but the statement is at worst ambigious and certainly not dishonest.

it was awarded to the IPCC, not the individuals involved in cleaning the floors for the IPCC or any other duty performed for the organisation.

As for the other part - the certificate is a genuine document issued to all members of the IPCC and as such he is perfectly entitled to use it to show that he as a member was part of the receiving body.

but he does not do that, he uses it to say (in the lawsuit) that HE was awarded the nobel prize.

lets actually look at what you claimed he did

"He did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (and to Al Gore) and made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma."

That in of itself is slander since it is in no way true and suggests misconduct which never took place.

not my words as you claim. that was a direct quote from the Nobel Committee guy, my comment that maybe Mann would next sue the Nobel Committee is obviously lost on you.

There was an attempt here to distort the statement Mann made to imply that he directly had received the Nobel prize - but he never actually said that and so it is unfair to say he misrepresented anything. Since this makes up no part of the Libal action I doubt it will have any effect on the outcome of the case.

point 2 in the introduction of Mann's lawsuit (manns words) - "Dr Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize"

Why couldn't the people making this claim actually quote the words of Mann ??

oh but they did, you just pretend that they didn't - its the denial.

[Little Fish]

I did read it and actually understood it

no you didn't read the mann lawsuit because you said "Someone definitely mangled that quote" when it was a direct quote from Mann's lawsuit.

who took my biscuit?

[Guest]

no you didn't read the mann lawsuit because you said "Someone definitely mangled that quote" when it was a direct quote from Mann's lawsuit.

who took my biscuit?

If you take the members out of the IPCC - what is there to make an award to ?

The IPCC is its members.

Br Cornelius

[Little Fish]

If you take the members out of the IPCC - what is there to make an award to ?

The IPCC is its members.

Br Cornelius

michael mann was not awarded the Nobel Prize, so Mann's legal statement "Dr Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize" is false.

[Guest]

michael mann was not awarded the Nobel Prize, so Mann's legal statement "Dr Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize" is false.

Lets see how much baring it has on the Libel case and those claims of academic fraud

Br Cornelius

[Guest]

but he does not do that, he uses it to say (in the lawsuit) that HE was awarded the nobel prize.

Your making things up here - he makes no reference to that document anywhere in the legal papers

not my words as you claim. that was a direct quote from the Nobel Committee guy, my comment that maybe Mann would next sue the Nobel Committee is obviously lost on you.

He made no alteration to the document issued by the IPCC so the statement is absolutely untrue.

It seems that the Nobel Committee was deliberately misdirected to make that statement by not been informed about the actual nature of the document. Nothing underhand in that then.

Br Cornelius

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest

[Little Fish]

Lets see how much baring it has on the Libel case and those claims of academic fraud

Br Cornelius

roll on court case, I think mann might be getting more than he bargined for.

here is the evidence to support the defendent:

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17202/Michael-Mann-says-lawsuit-against-National-Review-is-on-Climate-Depot-responds-to-Mann-and-his-lawyers-claims-about-the-Hockey-Stick--Climategate?utm_source=Climate+Depot&utm_campaign=3f6fb1abbc-Michael_Mann_s_Nobel_Prize10_26_2012&utm_medium=email

[Guest]

roll on court case, I think mann might be getting more than he bargined for.

here is the evidence to support the defendent:

http://www.climatede...tm_medium=email

A press release by "Climate Depot", I bet he's ****ting himself as we speak

Br Cornelius

[Little Fish]

A press release by "Climate Depot", I bet he's ****ting himself as we speak

Br Cornelius

how else would you like the information?

on an ipcc certificate with Nobel Prize written on it?

[Guest]

how else would you like the information?

on an ipcc certificate with Nobel Prize written on it?

Climate depot that notorious repository of impartial climate science.

I tried following up on a few of their case clinching studies - couldn't track them down in the peer reviewed papers

Unfortunately a court room is about the worst environment to decide on points of science so there is a certain amount of risk for Mann. Its a rare day that a scientifically literate judge or Jury walks into a courtroom. Still since the main point at issue is whether its acceptable to compare a scientist doing his job to a sex offender - I think he's got a good chance. Crossing the line of common decency has a habit of coming back to bite you on the ****.

Br Cornelius

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest