71 replies to this topic

[docyabut2]

Retiring Republican Rep. Ron Paul pushed back Monday against the National Rifle Association's call for installing armed officers in every school, warning that the move could create a TSA-style maze of checkpoints and surveillance cameras -- with limited effect.
"School shootings, no matter how horrific, do not justify creating an Orwellian surveillance state in America," Paul said in a written statement.

Do we really want to live in a world of police checkpoints, surveillance cameras,

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz2G3nfJrZZ


Yet we have surveillance cameras at just about every street light corners catching people running red lights for safety.  I never got one  driving , but my hubby and kids, really wrack them up on our cars,over a thousand dollars.

[Yamato]

I agree with Ron Paul on this.  The way forward is to listen to Ron Paul and I've never understood the mentality of some of his (former?) fans that we're somehow entering into a post-Ron Paul era.  Ron Paul will be even more relevant because if it was even humanly possible to make him even more independent from the will of his own political party or any special interest group, now that he's out of government, he could be.  He's going to be more relevant and influential than ever if we stop listening to the voices out there trying to diminish him.

It's our Orwellian and Draconian demagogues, who love to lather themselves in the fear of the day, so they can propagate it and justify it with their rhetoric, are the biggest threat to our nation today, probably right after its dying financial health.    "Terrorists" living in holes in the ground in Afghanistan are surely the least of our problems.

[AsteroidX]

I read hes retiring

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Armed officers in every school?! Holy moses, how many would that need?! I love the logic of the NRA; rather than even consider any alteration to their precious right to bear Arms, this is a more sensible suggestion?!?!

[Babe Ruth]

I too agree with Ron Paul on this.  The proposal would certainly put us on a slippery slope.

If the official story were true, then the NRA proposal might be a reasonable thing.  After all, most schools have School Resource Officers, as they call them here in Florida, so arming them properly would not be difficult.

[Order66]

So according to Ron Paul, we can give nukes to Iran, but we can't put police officers in schools?

[Babe Ruth]

Order66, on 25 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

So according to Ron Paul, we can give nukes to Iran, but we can't put police officers in schools?

Do you really expect to be taken seriously when you state that RP wants to give nukes to Iran?  I mean, REALLY?

[Order66]

Babe Ruth, on 25 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Do you really expect to be taken seriously when you state that RP wants to give nukes to Iran?  I mean, REALLY?

Well let me re-phrase: He's not opposed to it. In one of the Republican debates he basically asked: Why shouldn't Iran be allowed to have nukes in order to defend itself against Israel? Yet apparently we in the US shouldn't be allowed to defend our school children from crazed gunmen.

[AsteroidX]

Quote

Well let me re-phrase: He's not opposed to it. In one of the Republican debates he basically asked: Why shouldn't Iran be allowed to have nukes in order to defend itself against Israel? Yet apparently we in the US shouldn't be allowed to defend our school children from crazed gunmen.

well said

[acidhead]

Order66, on 25 December 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Well let me re-phrase: He's not opposed to it. In one of the Republican debates he basically asked: Why shouldn't Iran be allowed to have nukes in order to defend itself against Israel? Yet apparently we in the US shouldn't be allowed to defend our school children from crazed gunmen.

These shootings at schools do not happen everyday or often enough to justify setting up a police style surveilance system in public schools.  Those who emotionally trade their freedoms for somebody else's version of safety end up with neither.  RP understands this as should any individual who embraces liberty.

[Order66]

acidhead, on 25 December 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

These shootings at schools do not happen everyday or often enough to justify setting up a police style surveilance system in public schools.  Those who emotionally trade their freedoms for somebody else's version of safety end up with neither.  RP understands this as should any individual who embraces liberty.

Would you say the same of all the security after 9/11? Statistically you are not likely to be a victim of a terrorist attack, but how many attacks are too many? Homeland Security can be over the top, but I think have thwarted a sufficient number of terrorist attacks to claim a successful record. I see putting cops in schools as similar to putting air marshalls on planes. Minimally it's a deterrent of all sorts of crimes, and maximally if a shooting does occur it might save lives.

Why do kids need so much freedom anyway? Since when are schools not supposed to keep a close on eye what the kids are doing? They will have their whole lives ahead of them in which they will be free to make bad decisions. For the first few years at least they can learn to sit down and shut up and follow rules like civilized human beings.

Edited by Order66, 25 December 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[acidhead]

Order66, on 25 December 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

Would you say the same of all the security after 9/11? Statistically you are not likely to be a victim of a terrorist attack, but how many attacks are too many? Homeland Security can be over the top, but I think have thwarted a sufficient number of terrorist attacks to claim a successful record. I see putting cops in schools as similar to putting air marshalls on planes. Minimally it's a deterrent of all sorts of crimes, and maximally if a shooting does occur it might save lives.

Can you name how many terrorists the TSA has caught?

What does the TSA cost taxpayers per year?

Order66, on 25 December 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

Why do kids need so much freedom anyway? Since when are schools not supposed to keep a close on eye what the kids are doing? They will have their whole lives ahead of them in which they will be free to make bad decisions. For the first few years at least they can learn to sit down and shut up and follow rules like civilized human beings.

JUst curious.... What does the term Civil Liberties mean to you?

Edited by acidhead, 25 December 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[Kafkaesque]

acidhead, on 25 December 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

These shootings at schools do not happen everyday or often enough to justify setting up a police style surveilance system in public schools.  Those who emotionally trade their freedoms for somebody else's version of safety end up with neither.  RP understands this as should any individual who embraces liberty.

I agree that TSA like security would undermine our traditional values.

On top of this, putting TSA like security in schools is only an invitation towards a slippery slope where the average citizen becomes too easily accomadated to security provided by the state. We can't rely on government for security, only the protection of our liberty and thus ability to provide ourselves our own security.

[Order66]

acidhead, on 25 December 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

Can you name how many terrorists the TSA has caught?

I don't have an exact number, but often enough in the news I hear about terror plots foiled. As a taxpayer I'm satisfied that there is due diligence on the part of DHS. The biggest complaint I hear about the TSA is that they harass too many people which at least tells me they are doing what they are paid to do.

Quote

What does the TSA cost taxpayers per year?

I don't know, but if it is a genuine public safety issue, then it isn't justified merely by cost. How much do firefighters cost the taxpayers? It's not a profitable enterprise but somebody has to do it.

Quote

JUst curious.... What does the term Civil Liberties mean to you?

Well if you ask the ACLU it means threats lawsuits anytime someone exercises freedom or religion within 100 miles of a school or city hall.  If you ask someone who is being shot at by a crazed killer, it probably means 2nd amendment right to bear arms.

[docyabut2]

Its really not up to Ron Paul or the Govenment to hire armed policemen,and have surveillance cameras,  its up to the local school boards,on the tax levies to pay for it .  I was just saying ,Yet the cities have surveillance cameras at just about every street light corner catching people running red lights for safety, why not the city pay for the surveillance cameras and a armed policeman at the schools for the safety.

Edited by docyabut2, 26 December 2012 - 01:51 AM.