81 replies to this topic

[XingWi]

Simbi Laveau, on 24 October 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

I assumed so ,but it wasn't widely discussed or written about prior to the 90s I guess. What were they called before ? Does anyone know ?

1. Demons

2. Black Smoke Jinns

3. Shayateen/Shayatin

4. Legions of the Devil

5. Qareen/Qarin

6. Shades from Underworld

7. Legions of Yamaraja (the god of death)

8. Incubi/Succubi (in their original form without other manifestations)

9. Self-Shadow Doppelgangers

10. Wraiths

11. Tsalmaveth (shadow of death - according to some interpretations)



Although many cultures considered them demons but some very few cultures also considered them ghosts. With so many different names there was no need to invent another misleading name as "Shadow People" just to dupe people into believing that an alien race was suddenly showing interest in human beings. A misleading term as they are neither shadows (as they look more like black plasma not 2-dimensional shadows), nor people (unlike human people as they were considered 'spirits').

Edited by XingWi, 24 October 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[Simbi Laveau]

XingWi, on 24 October 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

1. Demons

2. Black Smoke Jinns

3. Shayateen/Shayatin

4. Legions of the Devil

5. Qareen/Qarin

6. Shades from Underworld

7. Legions of Yamaraja (the god of death)

8. Incubi/Succubi (in their original form without other manifestations)

9. Self-Shadow Doppelgangers

10. Wraiths

11. Tsalmaveth (shadow of death - according to some interpretations)



Although many cultures considered them demons but some very few cultures also considered them ghosts. With so many different names there was no need to invent another misleading name as "Shadow People" just to dupe people into believing that an alien race was suddenly showing interest in human beings. A misleading term as they are neither shadows (as they look more like black plasma not 2-dimensional shadows), nor people (unlike human people as they were considered 'spirits').

No,shadow people,from how I understand it,are actual black shadows you see .
More common in cemeteries I have heard.
More than half the things you have listed ,are not even close to that.
Djinn,incubi,succubi ,demons,different level of entity entirely .
They aren't even all on the same level .
So ,this is not what I'm thinking of at all .
There were no such thing as shadow people in folk lore ,prior to literally the 1990s.
A high case demon,or succubus ,has never gone around lurking as a black shadow .
This is something new,someone made up ,and *some* entities fall into the category ,but very low case entities .
I'm just not buying it ,as a concept.

[XingWi]

Simbi Laveau, on 25 October 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

No,shadow people,from how I understand it,are actual black shadows you see .
More common in cemeteries I have heard.

When you haven't seen them you cannot disagree with those who have seen them with their own eyes. Unless you quote something from people who have ALWAYS seen them as 2 dimensional shadows on the walls.

Yes they are seen in cemeteries but as 3 dimensional figures not as 2 dimensional shadows on the walls. As I said before they are more like black plasma (3 dimensional black transparent or sometimes full black matter) and have depth to their appearance which 2 dimensional shadows do not. If someone has described them as 2 dimensional black shadows then it could oinly mean that it is their own interpretation or due to a lack of name to call it otherwise. You can confirm this with the posters in this thread itself whether they saw them as 3-dimensional figures or 2 dimensional figures.

Simbi Laveau, on 25 October 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

More than half the things you have listed ,are not even close to that.

I will go a step further and say 100% of what I said is not even close to shadows on the wall.

Simbi Laveau, on 25 October 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Djinn,incubi,succubi ,demons,different level of entity entirely .

Do you even know what jinns are? You must be thinking about something that comes out of a bottle/lamp and grants you your three wishes. ha ha! its not like that. People in the middle east call shadow demons as jinns and it is a fact. I have been exchanging information with some Arab theologians on that since many years and they have always called these entities black smoke jinns or shayatin or qareen. You can ask someone here who is from middle east or africa and ask them what they call shadow demons. You cannot outright reject something so evident so popular like this. I am not the one who invented this name for them. Also, there is a book by Rosemarry ellen guiley on this subject with this very name: The Vengeful Djinn

But you also need to know that jinn is a very generic term that is used for other astral entities as well.

Simbi Laveau, on 25 October 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

They aren't even all on the same level .

Of course they aren't on the same level. Didn't I mention that some cultures considered them ghosts and some considered them demons. Some cultures considered them ghosts like "shades" from the underword and some even consider them carriers of souls to otherworld (legions of yamaraja) and some consider them demons. Are demons and ghosts on the same levels? Of course not.

To remind you again, I am not the one who invented these names for them. I just listed the names that people call them (and have been calling them for centuries) in different cultures because you seem to be totally unaware of the fact that shadow demons were discussed and written prior to 90s as well. I just listed the names that people use for these entities because your question was "what were they called before?" so I answered it by listing the names that people have been using for these entities. I am not responsible if these names do not fall on the same level because its the difference in opinions of people across different cultures and not mine... these are not inconsistencies of my own opinion about them because I do not call them with all these names at the same time. Do you understand what I am saying here?

Simbi Laveau, on 25 October 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

There were no such thing as shadow people in folk lore ,prior to literally the 1990s.

Yes there was no such thing as "shadow people" prior to 90s because this term was not yet invented to dupe the gullible public into believing that something new had happened in the paranormal field. Nothing new had happened. It was just a marketing stunt that media plays all the time.

Simbi Laveau, on 25 October 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

A high case demon,or succubus ,has never gone around lurking as a black shadow .

I can quote you from this forum itself where people have seen incubi/succubi in the form of black shadowy entities. But honestly I don't think its worth my time to search and quote for you when you have already made up your mind about them without even experiencing them. But if you are interested to know and are willing to keep an open mind then I will quote something for you.

Simbi Laveau, on 25 October 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

This is something new,someone made up ,and *some* entities fall into the category ,but very low case entities .
I'm just not buying it ,as a concept.

Those who've seen them know what they saw. Those who haven't have every right to disagree. I'm not blaming you, perhaps if I hadn't encountered them I wouldn't believe it either or would have just called them what others called them... astral spirits (a very generic term again).

[XingWi]

Simbi, this is for you. Please read this:

Quote

Sightings of shadow people have been reported all over the world. They are a recurring topic of the late-night talk radio show Coast-to-Coast AM. The former host of the show, Art Bell, seemingly resurrected the term "shadow people." The term appeared as early as September 21, 1953 as the title of a radio drama that was broadcast on Chicago's WGN-AM "Hall of Fantasy"* series. However, reports of beings fitting the description of shadow people have been recorded for centuries in literature. For example, in 1887, celebrated French author Guy de Maupassant pennned the story "Le Horla" ("The Horla") about shadowy beings who live on milk and water, bedevil human minds, and stalk the unwary.

Read more: http://www.monstrope...e#ixzz2AHnB8N00

[seeking8]

There is no real evidence that they are demons. Not saying they are angels but we have no real proof. The facts are people from all around the world have seen them. I worked out Americans seem to see them a lot with hats! Europe with no hats but I might be wrong there just going by peoples experience here including my own I am from england the one I saw had no hat. My mum told me a story about my great great grandmother in Ireland seeing one just before she died! she chased it around the house but then I did also hear she was a very hard woman lol. A guy I dated his aunt saw one before she died. Yet the one I saw was years ago same as others who have seen them and we are still here. Some of you guys point out they hide when you sight them others including my self have been touched by one maybe this is proof they have different characters. Maybe they are good and bad maybe they are in between people of good and bad.

[XingWi]

seeking8, on 25 October 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

There is no real evidence that they are demons. Not saying they are angels but we have no real proof. The facts are people from all around the world have seen them. I worked out Americans seem to see them a lot with hats! Europe with no hats but I might be wrong there just going by peoples experience here including my own I am from england the one I saw had no hat. My mum told me a story about my great great grandmother in Ireland seeing one just before she died! she chased it around the house but then I did also hear she was a very hard woman lol. A guy I dated his aunt saw one before she died. Yet the one I saw was years ago same as others who have seen them and we are still here. Some of you guys point out they hide when you sight them others including my self have been touched by one maybe this is proof they have different characters. Maybe they are good and bad maybe they are in between people of good and bad.

There is no "real" evidence that they are "people" either.

What makes you think that demons do not have different characters? Do you believe that demons do not have free will? When there is free will, there is bound to be different characters. A demon can quit his allegiance to evil and become good. A familiar for a white magician for instance.

My point is, these are not people like "human people". This term is very confusing to new experiencers/researchers when they read it. If someone finds it offending to call these entities demons, then he is free to call them whatever he wishes to call them.

[seeking8]

XingWi, on 25 October 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

There is no "real" evidence that they are "people" either.

What makes you think that demons do not have different characters? Do you believe that demons do not have free will? When there is free will, there is bound to be different characters. A demon can quit his allegiance to evil and become good. A familiar for a white magician for instance.

My point is, these are not people like "human people". This term is very confusing to new experiencers/researchers when they read it. If someone finds it offending to call these entities demons, then he is free to call them whatever he wishes to call them.

I am not saying they are people or demons or anything! all I am saying is I just go by peoples experience of them. I don't know what they are if I did I would probably see the world
differently how nice would that be? all I am saying is you cant call them demons if u dont know for sure just like I shouldn't call them people.

[Jackofalltrades]

Simbi Laveau, on 25 October 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

No,shadow people,from how I understand it,are actual black shadows you see .

The experience I had with a "shadow person" was totally different to seeing a normal everyday black shadow...

And unlike seeing a normal everyday black shadow, the experience I had was a little unnerving, which I have never had with a normal everyday black shadow

XingWi, on 25 October 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

When you haven't seen them you cannot disagree with those who have seen them with their own eyes. Unless you quote something from people who have ALWAYS seen them as 2 dimensional shadows on the walls.

Yes they are seen in cemeteries but as 3 dimensional figures not as 2 dimensional shadows on the walls. As I said before they are more like black plasma (3 dimensional black transparent or sometimes full black matter) and have depth to their appearance which 2 dimensional shadows do not. If someone has described them as 2 dimensional black shadows then it could oinly mean that it is their own interpretation or due to a lack of name to call it otherwise. You can confirm this with the posters in this thread itself whether they saw them as 3-dimensional figures or 2 dimensional figures.

I am still unsure whether it was a 2D or 3D figure I saw, could've been a mixture of both, I know for definite that it was not like a normal everyday shadow...

I have never seen a normal everyday shadow walk (I assume it walked due to the way it moved) from one door (stair door) diagonally across the middle of a room through a coffee table to another door (kitchen door)

It was black/dark grey and transparent, with no discernible feature's (face hands' etc) except the outline is the best way I can describe it

Edited by Jackofalltrades, 25 October 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[Simbi Laveau]

XingWi, on 25 October 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

When you haven't seen them you cannot disagree with those who have seen them with their own eyes. Unless you quote something from people who have ALWAYS seen them as 2 dimensional shadows on the walls.

Yes they are seen in cemeteries but as 3 dimensional figures not as 2 dimensional shadows on the walls. As I said before they are more like black plasma (3 dimensional black transparent or sometimes full black matter) and have depth to their appearance which 2 dimensional shadows do not. If someone has described them as 2 dimensional black shadows then it could oinly mean that it is their own interpretation or due to a lack of name to call it otherwise. You can confirm this with the posters in this thread itself whether they saw them as 3-dimensional figures or 2 dimensional figures.




I will go a step further and say 100% of what I said is not even close to shadows on the wall.




Do you even know what jinns are? You must be thinking about something that comes out of a bottle/lamp and grants you your three wishes. ha ha! its not like that. People in the middle east call shadow demons as jinns and it is a fact. I have been exchanging information with some Arab theologians on that since many years and they have always called these entities black smoke jinns or shayatin or qareen. You can ask someone here who is from middle east or africa and ask them what they call shadow demons. You cannot outright reject something so evident so popular like this. I am not the one who invented this name for them. Also, there is a book by Rosemarry ellen guiley on this subject with this very name: The Vengeful Djinn

But you also need to know that jinn is a very generic term that is used for other astral entities as well.



Of course they aren't on the same level. Didn't I mention that some cultures considered them ghosts and some considered them demons. Some cultures considered them ghosts like "shades" from the underword and some even consider them carriers of souls to otherworld (legions of yamaraja) and some consider them demons. Are demons and ghosts on the same levels? Of course not.

To remind you again, I am not the one who invented these names for them. I just listed the names that people call them (and have been calling them for centuries) in different cultures because you seem to be totally unaware of the fact that shadow demons were discussed and written prior to 90s as well. I just listed the names that people use for these entities because your question was "what were they called before?" so I answered it by listing the names that people have been using for these entities. I am not responsible if these names do not fall on the same level because its the difference in opinions of people across different cultures and not mine... these are not inconsistencies of my own opinion about them because I do not call them with all these names at the same time. Do you understand what I am saying here?




Yes there was no such thing as "shadow people" prior to 90s because this term was not yet invented to dupe the gullible public into believing that something new had happened in the paranormal field. Nothing new had happened. It was just a marketing stunt that media plays all the time.




I can quote you from this forum itself where people have seen incubi/succubi in the form of black shadowy entities. But honestly I don't think its worth my time to search and quote for you when you have already made up your mind about them without even experiencing them. But if you are interested to know and are willing to keep an open mind then I will quote something for you.




Those who've seen them know what they saw. Those who haven't have every right to disagree. I'm not blaming you, perhaps if I hadn't encountered them I wouldn't believe it either or would have just called them what others called them... astral spirits (a very generic term again).

Do I know what djinn are ?
Ummmmm,I can SEE ghosts ,spirits and demons ,since I'm a kid,and I've never seen a shadow anything . Djinn are alleged to be demons by
the Islamic community .You're kidding ,right ?
Succubi and incubi are STRICTLY SEXUAL entities,demonic in nature,so no,they never run around as shadows on a wall .
You want me to go thru the entire list ? As I can,quite easily .None of them qualify for what shadow people are alleged to be.
Most of them are very different entities .

Shadow people ,is a modern term ,used to define something else,that seem to be spirits that merely flit in and out of the picture . I've never seen this phenom ,despite having over 30 years in the paranormal field.
I'm not saying this alleged entity does not exist ,but its just something else renamed,and sensationalized .This term didn't even exist 15 years ago,as far as I can recall .

[XingWi]

seeking8, on 25 October 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

I am not saying they are people or demons or anything! all I am saying is I just go by peoples experience of them. I don't know what they are if I did I would probably see the world
differently how nice would that be? all I am saying is you cant call them demons if u dont know for sure just like I shouldn't call them people.

No, I know for sure what they are but I cannot convince others what they are. I have evidence that I cannot deny... my own experiences with them for many years both in physical and astral realms including my communications with them (some people may call me mad for claiming this but I did communicate telepathically with them for many days). But do my experiences have any proof for others? No. So you are free to call them whatever you wish to call them.

If someone experiences them over and over gain, it is possible that he will figure out eventually what they are although he cannot prove to to others what they really are.

[seeking8]

XingWi, on 25 October 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

No, I know for sure what they are but I cannot convince others what they are. I have evidence that I cannot deny... my own experiences with them for many years both in physical and astral realms including my communications with them (some people may call me mad for claiming this but I did communicate telepathically with them for many days). But do my experiences have any proof for others? No. So you are free to call them whatever you wish to call them.

If someone experiences them over and over gain, it is possible that he will figure out eventually what they are although he cannot prove to to others what they really are.

And you could be right. I will not doubt you its just so many people have had different experience with them so for me its hard to judge if they are good or bad.

[XingWi]

Simbi Laveau, on 25 October 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Do I know what djinn are ?
Ummmmm,I can SEE ghosts ,spirits and demons ,since I'm a kid,and I've never seen a shadow anything . Djinn are alleged to be demons by
the Islamic community .You're kidding ,right ?
Succubi and incubi are STRICTLY SEXUAL entities,demonic in nature,so no,they never run around as shadows on a wall .
You want me to go thru the entire list ? As I can,quite easily .None of them qualify for what shadow people are alleged to be.
Most of them are very different entities .

Shadow people ,is a modern term ,used to define something else,that seem to be spirits that merely flit in and out of the picture . I've never seen this phenom ,despite having over 30 years in the paranormal field.
I'm not saying this alleged entity does not exist ,but its just something else renamed,and sensationalized .This term didn't even exist 15 years ago,as far as I can recall .

Did you read the links I gave you? Shadow demons are called jinns in the middle east. How can you deny something so evident. Why are you even arguing over this is beyond me! Ask anyone from the middle east and he will tell you what they call these dark figures there. How can somone argue over a fact such as this!

Am I to blame if the entities named in the list do not qualify for what shadow demons are alleged to be? I have already explained you this. You asked a general question what they were called before and I quoted the names. I did not name them with these words.


And you are totally wrong about incubi/succubi. I can quote from this forum itself.

This is how the OP of "spirit relationships" thread described his succubi:

Sergeant, on 10 September 2009 - 02:21 AM, said:

I noticed a rotating, revolving or churning gray cloud or mist the size of a beach ball near the ceiling. Looking at it saw nothing but clearly there in the peripheral. It wasn't scary so I lay there for maybe 20 minutes wondering what that is, when a 2nd shadow or something move very slowly then scoot and vanish on the other side of the room. It wasn't scary, but was wondering what the heck that might be.

in the same thread another experiencer posted:

jake15, on 16 April 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

three shadow type ghosts have been abusing me for six months. i have tried everything but nothing seems to stop them. i don't know what to do. i'm not crazy i'm not dreaming or imagining things.

And there are many such posts in this forum scattered in different threads. And if you look in other websites you will find countless accounts with similar descriptions.

Too bad you've alreday made up your mind else we could take this discussion further but when people are just arguing for the sake arguing what is the point in discussing anything.

All I can say is that you are lucky you didn't encounter them so thank God for that. Lets end this discussion here. Cheers.

Edited by XingWi, 25 October 2012 - 02:56 PM.

[XingWi]

seeking8, on 25 October 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

And you could be right. I will not doubt you its just so many people have had different experience with them so for me its hard to judge if they are good or bad.

Yes I can understand.your stance  

[XingWi]

Jackofalltrades, on 25 October 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

The experience I had with a "shadow person" was totally different to seeing a normal everyday black shadow...

And unlike seeing a normal everyday black shadow, the experience I had was a little unnerving, which I have never had with a normal everyday black shadow



I am still unsure whether it was a 2D or 3D figure I saw, could've been a mixture of both, I know for definite that it was not like a normal everyday shadow...

I have never seen a normal everyday shadow walk (I assume it walked due to the way it moved) from one door (stair door) diagonally across the middle of a room through a coffee table to another door (kitchen door)

It was black/dark grey and transparent, with no discernible feature's (face hands' etc) except the outline is the best way I can describe it

I have seen them countless times and they never looked like actual shadows to me either.

Edited by XingWi, 25 October 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[Urban_Monkey_One]

Thought I would throw my experience in on this one. I never heard them referred to as "Shadow People" until I had read a few on-line articles. Growing up, I lived in a haunted house for a short-while (I didn't see them there, but just for frame of reference..I've had experiences.). I would describe them to my dad when I was younger as, dark things that are blacker than the dark itself. They were usually human in shape, but not always fully formed. Sometimes there would be just a head coming out from a wall, or an upper torso hanging from the ceiling. I have seen them since I was around 7 years old. I have never seen them outside in the daylight, but my brother has-once- and today he refuses to talk about it (I'm 29, he's 4 years younger). My wife has seen them when with me at my old house, I am able to point them out. In none of these cases was I drinking, using drugs, sleeping, or lucid dreaming (I do reality checks and am very familiar with Sleep Paralysis and dream-states). It has happened with other people in the room. I believe, along with my dad, that they are people Astral Projecting, or they are Astral Scouts, possibly other dimensions mirroring at the right time. They aren't really "shadows" as others have said. I have been "tuned in" to things like this since I was young, and have always meditated. My dad has experience being OOB, and is also very in tune with whatever is out there.

I have had other things go on as well, but ever since I moved into my new house 5 months ago, I have not seen them, not that I'm complaining.