Will Morsi Cause a Civil War in Egypt?

[+and-then]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/05/world/meast/egypt-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Seems the revolution isn't over yet. I wonder which side the military will come down for?

[pallidin]

Yeah, certainly seems like a conflict is brewing.

[Bavarian Raven]

I wonder which side the military will come down for?

whichever side pays them the most?

[Wickian]

Good to know the progressives aren't giving up the country to the religious fundamentalists without a fight.

[Ashotep]

I don't blame them for being mad. Morsi passed laws to put him above it and I wouldn't like religious laws being forced on me.

[pallidin]

I don't blame them for being mad. Morsi passed laws to put him above it and I wouldn't like religious laws being forced on me.

Yeah, what's up with that? Does he want to be Pharaoh?

Silly man, that Morsi, not expecting a serious uprising.

[+and-then]

Yeah, what's up with that? Does he want to be Pharaoh?

Silly man, that Morsi, not expecting a serious uprising.

I think he is just impatient, which is ironic, considering how patient the MB has had to be for all those years under Mubarak. Morsi sees his chance and is "going for it", I think. I just hope he has overplayed and gets slapped down without too many more young people being buried in the process. I think the youth sense that this is their time and hopefully they will realize they have been doubly blessed to see the evil again while there is still time to defeat it. I'll add to my signature: Pray for the peace of Egypt

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Egypt needs another Nasser, soon, very soon, because the abys begins to open. Though I do not doubt for one nanosecond that if there is a military coup, then the weak minded, politically correct, greed and power obsessed politicians in Washington and Brussels will scream and shout like the maidens they are.

[+and-then]

Egypt needs another Nasser, soon, very soon, because the abys begins to open. Though I do not doubt for one nanosecond that if there is a military coup, then the weak minded, politically correct, greed and power obsessed politicians in Washington and Brussels will scream and shout like the maidens they are.

I recently finished a book on the 1967 war and Nasser was portrayed as a weak willed individual who allowed a friend to steamroll him. He appointed this friend Amr to a field marshal position despite the fact the guy was a totally unqualified alcoholic and addict. They need another Sadat IMO.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

I recently finished a book on the 1967 war and Nasser was portrayed as a weak willed individual who allowed a friend to steamroll him. He appointed this friend Amr to a field marshal position despite the fact the guy was a totally unqualified alcoholic and addict. They need another Sadat IMO.

I think that Nasser had the ability to unify Egypt and give them pride they had not had for centuries. Certainly he was not without faults, and Sadat was more able, but look what happened to him. Perhaps even if people in the background pull the strings, I think Egypt needs somebody charismatic like Nasser at this time. Stability before democracy....

[+and-then]

I think that Nasser had the ability to unify Egypt and give them pride they had not had for centuries. Certainly he was not without faults, and Sadat was more able, but look what happened to him. Perhaps even if people in the background pull the strings, I think Egypt needs somebody charismatic like Nasser at this time. Stability before democracy....

If charisma is the goal then you might be left with someone who makes people feel good within their mediocrity - as an American I've learned a little about this the past 4 years.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

If charisma is the goal then you might be left with someone who makes people feel good within their mediocrity - as an American I've learned a little about this the past 4 years.

Perhaps something lost in translation.... I mean they need a leader, a real leader who can bang heads together and unify all, or at least the vast majority, behind him, even if he is not 100% capable in all areas. Then when there is stability, a long term solution can be searched for. I'm not suggesting a Hitler at one end of spectrum, or "quota man" Obama at the other, more a Washington or a Cromwell or a Garibaldi

[meryt-tetisheri]

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t2

Seems the revolution isn't over yet. I wonder which side the military will come down for?

The army's position is unclear. El Sissi is Mursi's appointee and the constitution draft gives even wider leeway to the army which could be tempting for the army to turn a blind eye, but for how long?

CNN's article is offering a rather one-sided view of the story. An excellent analysis of why the constitution draft is rejected can be found here:

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/12/06/a_better_egyptian_constitution

Mursi's insistence on refusing to rescind the constitutional decree, and on having the referendum on Dec. 15th., have ignited demonstrations against him, and the MB, all over Egypt. Egyptians have not forgotten the 'cooked-up' 99% results of previous elections; nor the shelved case of pre-marked ballots of the last presidential elections. More than 100,000 attended the first demonstrations surrounding the presidential palace. These were peaceful; no one was killed or injured, except the paint on the palace's wall which was decorated with graffiti. Faced with growing opposition, protest resignations of presidential advisors -including the vice president of FJP, media personnel and anchors, and wide-spread demonstrations; and in an effort to cow any opposition, MB leaders issued orders to their supporters and militias to clear the sit-in in front of the palace. Peaceful demonstrators were attacked, beaten, stripped of their clothes, dragged on the ground, and finally shot at using live bullets and bird shot. Some were arrested and tortured to force a confession that they are paid 'thugs' (including Yahiya Zachariah, the previous ambassador of Egypt to Venezuela). They were told to confess or be killed while the police watched! This is a family site, I cannot post the graphic pictures or clips, I will only post links but be warned they are not pretty:

https://www.facebook.com/ElShaheeed#!/photo.php?fbid=498426083540594&set=a.104265636289976.2684.104224996294040&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/Egyptians.Reject.Ikwan#!/photo.php?fbid=543212762374025&set=a.243968668965104.74625.242452532450051&type=1&theater (notice the stacked thick sticks destined to clear the sit-in)

In his speech, Mursi offered no substantial compromise but laid the blame for the violence on his opponents. He did not even mention how his MB followers savaged demonstrators. The comic touch was that he lamented that a driver of a bullet-proof car in his motorcade was injured by a stone thrown by a demonstrator (?!).

It seems the MB in its drive to rule unchallenged is willing to go to any extreme and sacrifice as many Egyptians as it takes. The question is, why does the present American administration persist in backing them? It is noteworthy that one of the MB leaders who personally threatened the opposition and is responsible for calling the MB militia to clear the demonstrations, El Eryian, has left this afternoon to USA. It remains to be seen if Obama's speech in Cairo University was mere rhetoric or if he meant any of it.

[+and-then]

The army's position is unclear. El Sissi is Mursi's appointee and the constitution draft gives even wider leeway to the army which could be tempting for the army to turn a blind eye, but for how long?

CNN's article is offering a rather one-sided view of the story. An excellent analysis of why the constitution draft is rejected can be found here:

http://mideast.forei...an_constitution

Mursi's insistence on refusing to rescind the constitutional decree, and on having the referendum on Dec. 15th., have ignited demonstrations against him, and the MB, all over Egypt. Egyptians have not forgotten the 'cooked-up' 99% results of previous elections; nor the shelved case of pre-marked ballots of the last presidential elections. More than 100,000 attended the first demonstrations surrounding the presidential palace. These were peaceful; no one was killed or injured, except the paint on the palace's wall which was decorated with graffiti. Faced with growing opposition, protest resignations of presidential advisors -including the vice president of FJP, media personnel and anchors, and wide-spread demonstrations; and in an effort to cow any opposition, MB leaders issued orders to their supporters and militias to clear the sit-in in front of the palace. Peaceful demonstrators were attacked, beaten, stripped of their clothes, dragged on the ground, and finally shot at using live bullets and bird shot. Some were arrested and tortured to force a confession that they are paid 'thugs' (including Yahiya Zachariah, the previous ambassador of Egypt to Venezuela). They were told to confess or be killed while the police watched! This is a family site, I cannot post the graphic pictures or clips, I will only post links but be warned they are not pretty:

https://www.facebook...&type=1

https://www.facebook...&type=1 (notice the stacked thick sticks destined to clear the sit-in)

In his speech, Mursi offered no substantial compromise but laid the blame for the violence on his opponents. He did not even mention how his MB followers savaged demonstrators. The comic touch was that he lamented that a driver of a bullet-proof car in his motorcade was injured by a stone thrown by a demonstrator (?!).

It seems the MB in its drive to rule unchallenged is willing to go to any extreme and sacrifice as many Egyptians as it takes. The question is, why does the present American administration persist in backing them? It is noteworthy that one of the MB leaders who personally threatened the opposition and is responsible for calling the MB militia to clear the demonstrations, El Eryian, has left this afternoon to USA. It remains to be seen if Obama's speech in Cairo University was mere rhetoric or if he meant any of it.

Unfortunately, Meryt, I'm afraid that Obama genuinely feels the MB is the best choice for Egypt. As to his rhetoric in the Cairo speech - we in the US have learned that he will say anything to tailor a response from a given audience. I think of him as almost pathological with his arrogance and lies. I'll be praying for your people and your country that they can be rid of this tyrant before he gains full control. I'm afraid that if they are serious about deposing him some very bloody days are ahead.

[MichaelW]

Hopefully not. And I thought it was general knowledge that widespread powers invested in the president so soon after they got rid of Mubarak was political suicide?

[meryt-tetisheri]

Unfortunately, Meryt, I'm afraid that Obama genuinely feels the MB is the best choice for Egypt. As to his rhetoric in the Cairo speech - we in the US have learned that he will say anything to tailor a response from a given audience. I think of him as almost pathological with his arrogance and lies. I'll be praying for your people and your country that they can be rid of this tyrant before he gains full control. I'm afraid that if they are serious about deposing him some very bloody days are ahead.

In this case Obama will be simply repeating the same mistake...again: supporting tyrannical regimes against the will of the people yet hoping that the US will somehow gain their trust and friendship, let alone stability in the area! For the MB to deliver whatever they have promised US, it has to have legitimacy and credibility both of which it has lost, particularly after they deliberately resorted to violence against opponents. What the MB is trying to do now is to terrorize Egyptians into compliance. The situation in Egypt is dangerous, armed MB militias are targeting politicians and demonstrators, and have called for reinforcements from Hamas. It is believed (according to Palestinian sources) that they have already started arriving in cars with Egyptian CD (diplomatic) licences. Salafi militias are laying siege to the Media Production City, where all TV channels are quartered. In the meanwhile, a few cities like Mahala (largest industrial center) and even Alexandria have declared independence from the regime.

Will Obama listen to MB lobbyists who are now in the States among whom are the very same persons who issued orders to armed militias to attack and terrorize unarmed civilians who are simply exercising their civil rights? I hope that Obama is aware that delivering rhetoric while doing the exact opposite will not work, the ME is too familiar with leaders who give the correct sound bites but do the opposite of what they say.

Discussions about Egypt’s current moment in the United States are important precisely because the Muslim Brothers are eager to secure international legitimacy. The fact that they have a team of high-level foreign policy aides lobbying for them in Washington, when they have yet to open meaningful discussions with the domestic opposition, speaks volumes.

Liberal American analysts and commentators, keen to distance themselves from the post-September 11 legacy of Islamophobia and to give the newly elected Islamists a fair chance, seem to have allowed their allegiances in the US context to shape their understanding of what is happening in Egypt. In the process they have reinforced a number of faulty assumptions.

http://merip.org/why...sters-are-right

Edited December 8, 2012 by meryt-tetisheri

[Mr.United_Nations]

The army is not doing any fighting, they aren't doing anything!

[+and-then]

In this case Obama will be simply repeating the same mistake...again: supporting tyrannical regimes against the will of the people yet hoping that the US will somehow gain their trust and friendship, let alone stability in the area! For the MB to deliver whatever they have promised US, it has to have legitimacy and credibility both of which it has lost, particularly after they deliberately resorted to violence against opponents. What the MB is trying to do now is to terrorize Egyptians into compliance. The situation in Egypt is dangerous, armed MB militias are targeting politicians and demonstrators, and have called for reinforcements from Hamas. It is believed (according to Palestinian sources) that they have already started arriving in cars with Egyptian CD (diplomatic) licences. Salafi militias are laying siege to the Media Production City, where all TV channels are quartered. In the meanwhile, a few cities like Mahala (largest industrial center) and even Alexandria have declared independence from the regime.

Will Obama listen to MB lobbyists who are now in the States among whom are the very same persons who issued orders to armed militias to attack and terrorize unarmed civilians who are simply exercising their civil rights? I hope that Obama is aware that delivering rhetoric while doing the exact opposite will not work, the ME is too familiar with leaders who give the correct sound bites but do the opposite of what they say.

http://merip.org/why...sters-are-right

Frankly, Meryt, I believe Obama's abilities as a foreign policy leader are greatly over rated. He is an ideologue and leaves details to his staff. He seems unaware of just how significant, historic, these events are that are unfolding there. Much like Carter and Iran. If the people rise up again and cause Morsi to look untenable in office, who knows? Obama may well tell him "you've got to go" though I doubt the MB - this close to what they've sought for so long - will be as easy to push out as Mubarak was....

[+and-then]

UPDATE:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57558041/egypt-military-warns-of-disastrous-consequences/

Looks like the military sees problems down the road not too distant.