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how the spirit world world really works!


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#46    markprice

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:46 PM

I had a real good long look at the Gate many years ago. Why would God require more than one gate? If you are referring to John's vision and symbolism you would need to be a trained adept as he was to accurately discern what was implied with layers of symbolism, but you are right: that is not the point. The Gate does not even connect to walls; there is a pillar on each side under a rainbow-like arch...wow that was a long time ago--but walls and multiple gates are not necessary because nobody is getting past that without a thorough understanding of Evil. Evil is the force that prevents entrance and beyond that any structure is superfluous.

"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"

#47    markprice

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:53 PM

View PostIrrelevant, on 09 May 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

Are you going to make me start quoting full  scripture? Let's move beyond that archaic style please, but note I quoted the first line as is the tradition with Jesus so you and anybody else can find it if you still feel the need.


As for salvation that was never part of the Logos, its a countermeasure, the need for salvation happened because ...

What you said was "The family is the most important part of God's plan".  If you are going to make declarative statements based on the bible then the bible should not contradict you, right?

Mathew 10:37, 35-36, 12:48 etc. etc.
Mark 10:29
Luke 48-49, 53 etc.

You are saying there was no need for Jesus' mission in God's plan because He didn't need a plan for salvation in the first place. Then nothing in the bible was a part of God's plan. I mean come on, countermeasures have to be a part of any intelligent Plan. If God planned for nothing to happen...you see what I mean.

"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"

#48    Einsteinium

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

People always quote the Christian bible as being the final authority on spiritual matters. This is simply just not correct. It is but one of many important spiritual texts. Here are some passages from a book I consider to be just as true as the Christian bible- The Bhagavad Gita

Never the spirit was born; the spirit shall cease to be never;Never was time it was not; End and Beginning are dreams!Birthless and deathless and changeless remaineth the spirit for ever;Death hath not touched it at all, dead though the house of it seems!Who knoweth it exhaustless, self-sustained,Immortal, indestructible,shall suchSay, I have killed a man, or caused to kill?Nay, but as when one layethHis worn-out robes away,And, taking new ones, sayeth,These will I wear to-day!So putteth by the spiritLightly its garb of flesh,And passeth to inheritA residence afresh.

Whatever you do, make it an offering to me -- the food you eat, the sacrifices you make, the help you give, even your suffering.

Those who consciousness is unified abandon all attachment to the results of action and attain supreme peace. But those whose desires are fragmented, who are selfishly attached to the results of their work, are bound in everything they do.

There has never been a time when you and I have not existed, nor will there be a time when we will cease to exist. As the same person inhabits the body through childhood, youth, and old age, so too at the time of death he attains another body. The wise are not deluded by these changes.

That one I love who is incapable of ill will, and returns love for hatred. Living beyond the reach of I and mind, and of pain and pleasure, full of mercy, contented, self-controlled, with all his heart and all his mind given to Me -- with such a one I am in love.

To the illumined man or woman, a clod of dirt, a stone, and gold are the same.


Fear not what is not real, never was and never will be. What is real, always was and cannot be destroyed.

Edited by Einsteinium, 09 May 2013 - 05:13 PM.


#49    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 05:20 PM

Nobody alive on this planet can tell you how the spirit world works. Some may tell you they have the answers or are "enlightened" but the truth is, you aren't going to know until you are dead. Personally, even though I won't have and will never have scratched the surface, I base my expectations and vision of the afterlife based on my own experiences and not religious texts.

You can go the distance, you can run the mile and you can walk straight through HELL with a smile.

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#50    Einsteinium

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:24 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 09 May 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

Nobody alive on this planet can tell you how the spirit world works. Some may tell you they have the answers or are "enlightened" but the truth is, you aren't going to know until you are dead. Personally, even though I won't have and will never have scratched the surface, I base my expectations and vision of the afterlife based on my own experiences and not religious texts.

:tsu: As do I. Personally I think that anyone who claims to be enlightened most certainly is not.


#51    Blueogre2

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 09 May 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

Nobody alive on this planet can tell you how the spirit world works. Some may tell you they have the answers or are "enlightened" but the truth is, you aren't going to know until you are dead. Personally, even though I won't have and will never have scratched the surface, I base my expectations and vision of the afterlife based on my own experiences and not religious texts.
Epic post heaven. I don't know if their is a god or not, But I know this, no one in this world has the answers and  anyone who claims to have them is deluded, lying, or stupid. The only truth we have is our own experience and the experiences of others. Yet even that can not be trusted fully. In the end we must simply be humble with our small place in the universe and struggle to manage as best we can. Thats all we can do.


#52    Mr Walker

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:49 AM

View PostEinsteinium, on 09 May 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

:tsu: As do I. Personally I think that anyone who claims to be enlightened most certainly is not.

Ah so there are no enlightened people on earth lol.

Ps There probably IS no conscious awareness after our death. Even if  our consciousness lives on in a storage form, it is not growing, developing, or able to change.

A living conciousness can interact with it, but it cannot move out of its "storage space." The only time we are going to be aware of, and conscious of, the spirit world, is while we are alive to BE aware and conscious. Awareness and consciousness are properties of life, not death. Once a human being is dead, their experience is precisely as it was before they were conceived.

That is, non existent They dont exist and they are unaware of any existence. BUT in my experince they exist as a  type of stored holographic projection or memory form in a larger consciousness, and we, as conscious living beings, can interact with that  memory or projection of their past consciousness and learn from it as we would from a film  of their life.

The universe stores all our past consciousnesses, but i do not see any evidence, yet, of it restoring them to self aware consciousness capable of ongoing interaction with the universe.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#53    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 09:48 AM

View PostEinsteinium, on 09 May 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

:tsu: As do I. Personally I think that anyone who claims to be enlightened most certainly is not.
I've known a number of "old souls" in various monasteries who openly and even laughingly say they are enlightened.  I've never been sure quite what to make of it: they are smart and sane and well informed about the world and wise enough to stay away from trying to define it, but I think they probably are, or at least are genuine in their opinion that they are.


#54    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 09:56 AM

The idea that the universe somewhere, through some non-physical mechanism, stores our memories and identities is kinda necessary for the traditional Buddhist "enlightenment" into full Buddhahood (as opposed to the "enlightenment" of someone who has learned full mindfulness that I talked about in the above paragraph) is hard to swallow.  This is a state where one has full memory in detail of all past lives.

The thing is what we use for memory is stored somehow chemically in brain tissue, and therefore often lost (we forget things), has to be accessed, and can be destroyed by disease and certainly is destroyed by death.


#55    Mr Walker

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:11 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 10 May 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

The idea that the universe somewhere, through some non-physical mechanism, stores our memories and identities is kinda necessary for the traditional Buddhist "enlightenment" into full Buddhahood (as opposed to the "enlightenment" of someone who has learned full mindfulness that I talked about in the above paragraph) is hard to swallow.  This is a state where one has full memory in detail of all past lives.

The thing is what we use for memory is stored somehow chemically in brain tissue, and therefore often lost (we forget things), has to be accessed, and can be destroyed by disease and certainly is destroyed by death.
I hadn't realised this was buddhist teaching. It is just my own experience from childhood onwards. While i recognise my existing consciousness is temporary, and tied to my physical body/mind, it is capable of accessing the cosmic consciousness and all that entails, and it can visit stored consciousnesses, as well as other living ones, through the conduit of the cosmic consciousness which permeates all.

I haven't identified any past consciousness of my own that I know of, and i suspect they do not actually exist, but i have lived through the lives of many many people (mostly short, painful and ordinary, yet each a window to very different times and worlds)  reaching back from my father, through history to cromagnon and neandertal  times.

It is also possible to access sapient minds all over the universe, past and present, although often one can do little more than look out through their eyes and use ones own mind to understand and interpret what they see..

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#56    Irrelevant

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:50 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 09 May 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:



What you said was "The family is the most important part of God's plan".  If you are going to make declarative statements based on the bible then the bible should not contradict you, right?

Mathew 10:37, 35-36, 12:48 etc. etc.
Mark 10:29
Luke 48-49, 53 etc.

You are saying there was no need for Jesus' mission in God's plan because He didn't need a plan for salvation in the first place. Then nothing in the bible was a part of God's plan. I mean come on, countermeasures have to be a part of any intelligent Plan. If God planned for nothing to happen...you see what I mean.

No that's not what I'm saying

I'm saying had Adam and Eve (the first holy family) not failed then all would have been born true Sons and Daughters of God and would not be reborn adopted Sons of God. If the fall in the Garden of Eden was part of the plan God would have been happy, but he wasn't happy.

And you may ask what is this Fall? The fall was the Fall of Spiritual awareness and heavenly linage  , and the taking on of Evil linage.

Why do I say the first holy family and not first humans? Because those other humans were considered wildlife,(similar as to how under commonwealth law the original inhabitants of a land are considered fauna and Flora /wildlife)  hence the sons of Adam and Eve mated with the wildlife, no they didn't have children from Apes or monkeys! That's crazy. Lol

Adam and Eve were the first Homo sapiens to communicate with God.  Science will show creationist quickly that there were other humans around and dinosaurs millions of years before them, this was a evolution..God went through a process of creation over a very long time to make humans, how long he waited to make us finally! I shall discuss this fall and how it happened later, but essentially the Angel Lucifer became jealous of humans because Angels were not created to the full capacity or in the image of God and tricked them into inheriting his Satanic linage too ( Jesus: " You are of your father the Devil , and your desire is to do his will")

To create such a special being God made the physical world for this reason. Growth in the spirit world (non Corporeal world) is only possible with connection to the physical world. Yes I'm saying humans are capable of exceeding the Angels and one day will! but only one has done this to this time,  and that is a True Son of God...born without sin ( that is inherited by all of us because of the fall) that man was Jesus Christ.   However :  "The whole of creation groans in agony waiting for the revealing of the sons of God" Saint Paul.

Therefore it's clear, if the fall never happened, there would be no need for salvation or any religion because people would have only been born True Sons and Daughters of God from the beginning. So salvation for for fallen mankind would be unnecessary. Adam was the Tree of Life, Jesus was the second Adam and that is why he is also called the Tree of Life, and this why we must be grafted to him!, because the first tree of life failed.

The fall created the Evil mind, this mind connects with the physical mind only.

Edited by Irrelevant, 10 May 2013 - 11:56 AM.


#57    Irrelevant

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:07 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 09 May 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

I had a real good long look at the Gate many years ago. Why would God require more than one gate? If you are referring to John's vision and symbolism you would need to be a trained adept as he was to accurately discern what was implied with layers of symbolism, but you are right: that is not the point. The Gate does not even connect to walls; there is a pillar on each side under a rainbow-like arch...wow that was a long time ago--but walls and multiple gates are not necessary because nobody is getting past that without a thorough understanding of Evil. Evil is the force that prevents entrance and beyond that any structure is superfluous.

The Gate is a Symbolism, the Bible states each gate is of a pearl (the pearly gates), some think these gates are pearly in appearance! No, a pearl is a pearl of wisdom and the greatest wisdom concerns Love. This dynamic is regarding Love Between God, Man and Woman and there Children (the family) the family is the very core of the Logos. I shall explain this dynamic and how it relates to gates of love at another time.  

As a example: don't cast pearls of wisdom before swine.


#58    Irrelevant

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:15 PM

Thank you to those who are posting or taking a interest in reading this thread.. This thread has not even got started yet.

I would advise the reader if they have time to review how spirits return and connect with those on earth and likewise grow, most not even being aware there is a spirit connecting with them at times, although sometimes you can feel them come upon you or even tempt you.. This is why such religions like Buddhism are correct but only to a point. These spiritual things are interpreted by fallen mankind so that's why there's so many religions..yes I'm saying the Buddhist interpretation is incorrect but not entirely! The Leverite Kabbalah  interpretation is very close however.

You can see how Moses and Elijah (Elijah , after he left John the Baptist ) communicated and assisted with Jesus in reference to : The Mount Of Transfiguration.  The spiritual eyes of the the Apostles were opened by God to see this.

Edited by Irrelevant, 10 May 2013 - 12:19 PM.


#59    Irrelevant

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:43 PM

Also, something I planed to get to later in this thread was about how creation is done.

The Higgs field is a field of energy beyond matter, before matter is a field of energy that holds it together. I mentioned God is in you more than you are! That's because every atom is held together by God.

God is trapped in you on a atomic level, but your in control because you were given free will. Something to think about and remember is that ol saying " there but by the grace of God go I"

For Creation:
I will ask you look at the universe, what do you see?? Galaxy's in spirals..SPIRALS!  This is a key.. Now look at trees inside them what do you see? Spirals, now look at your finger prints what do you see? Spirals, now imagine your DNA (double Helix) Spirals..the invisible fingerprint of God is in all creation and it is a reflection of its maker..creation is created at the level of Symbol. We were created at the level of Image but have the signature of our Father all through us.

Now I ask what makes a Spiral? A positive and a negative, a male and a female.." God created them in his Image male and Female he created them"

This shows God is a Being of Harmonised Male and Female..when a man and woman are joined in harmonious marriage they are like God. A positive and a negative spiralling around each other, these create new beings.

So God has a Masculine Side and a Feminine side.


#60    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:13 PM

Response to Mr. Walker

I fear you carry what I said way too far.  I was pointing out a problem with the traditional picture of Buddhahood wherein all past life memories are brought back in detail.  This would require some sort of cosmic unknown and unevidenced memory bank, and we have no reason to think such a thing might exist, except perhaps testimonies like yours, which I discount heavily.





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