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Wealth Distribution.


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#151    Einsteinium

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:08 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 08 April 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

There are more graduate's packing groceries than you would care to imagine. You imagine opportunities which simply do not exist.
Unemployment runs across all sectors of society regardless of training and aspiration.

You really have a very simplified view of the world.

Br Cornelius

But you are wrong. What degree's are these people aspiring to get? Most likely liberal arts degree's which really are not worth much anymore. There ARE opportunities out there. Br where do you live? I live in America and let me tell you you cannot trust what you hear on the news all the time. It is always sensationalized. There are opportunities and jobs available, but you need to work for them. Computer programmers, engineers, the technical, hard sciences need people. In some fields there are more jobs available than there are people who are qualified to fill them.


#152    F3SS

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:09 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 08 April 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Minimum wage is not a living wage for most people and to aspire to a country which pays minimum wage is woeful and an admission of abject failure as a society.

Br Cornelius
That's a pretty bold statement to call America an abject failure of society.
Our biggest problem is government interference. Plain and simple. 90,000 page tax code. Hundreds of thousands of pages of regulations for all aspects of business. You want utopia and utopia doesn't exist. America was never the land of living wages and success for all. It's just a place that allowed you to achieve those opportunities. You want everything to be given. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life.

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#153    Br Cornelius

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:11 PM

View PostEinsteinium, on 08 April 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

But you are wrong. What degree's are these people aspiring to get? Most likely liberal arts degree's which really are not worth much anymore. There ARE opportunities out there. Br where do you live? I live in America and let me tell you you cannot trust what you hear on the news all the time. It is always sensationalized. There are opportunities and jobs available, but you need to work for them. Computer programmers, engineers, the technical, hard sciences need people. In some fields there are more jobs available than there are people who are qualified to fill them.
I live in Ireland. that is not materail - i know the real situation because I know of many graduates personally who cannot get any meaningful employment - and thats not just liberal arts degrees its every type of degree. Also there are the huge number of qualified and experienced people who have been laid off and will probably never work again because they are over the age of 40.

Its all just baseless hate filled rhetoric.

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#154    Einsteinium

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:12 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 08 April 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Carry on telling that the the homeless collecting charity food boxes. Your spouting verbatum an exaggerated rhetoric designed to make you hate those less fortunate than yourself.
There maybe people like you say - but they are certainly not the rule and certainly not the boggy man the Republicans are painting them as.

Br Cornelius

But would you agree that instead of sending them a check in the mail for doing nothing, that we instead help them go to technical school, help them become trained in a field that needs people? Would that not be better than just sending them a check and food stamps? Because that check and that food does not just materialized out of thin air, it is provided by people who are working, who are building up businesses. People need to be allowed to fail, if you have a social safety net that is so airtight that I can be reckless, make bad decisions, wind up bankrupt and homeless and still have a TV, cigarettes, a car, and a roof over my head then something is wrong with that system. By removing failure from society, you dilute success. You are right that it is a system of balance. You cannot life up the lowest segment of society without bringing down the middle and upper segments.


#155    F3SS

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:15 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 08 April 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

There are more graduate's packing groceries than you would care to imagine. You imagine opportunities which simply do not exist.
Unemployment runs across all sectors of society regardless of training and aspiration.

You really have a very simplified view of the world.

Br Cornelius
Thanks for the alert. Too bad I was one of those graduates. Eventually I tried something else. I stuck with it. When that wasn't cutting it anymore I took the skills I had and decided the hell with it, I'll try and do this on my own. Several years later and I'm now a job provider. I know not everyone will do that but I walked in those shoes you tell me I've never worn. It can be done and I did it all without one government check. Hell, I haven't even had a tax return in over ten years. It's called a work ethic. Not a help me I can't do it ethic.

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#156    Br Cornelius

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:15 PM

Why bother training people for work they will never be offered. You imagine that there is a technical job for every unemployed person. Its just lala cuckoo land thinking. Thats not even talking about the fact that a significant proporetion of those people are not able for high level eduction - where are they going to get their living wage.

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#157    Einsteinium

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 08 April 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

I live in Ireland. that is not materail - i know the real situation because I know of many graduates personally who cannot get any meaningful employment - and thats not just liberal arts degrees its every type of degree. Also there are the huge number of qualified and experienced people who have been laid off and will probably never work again because they are over the age of 40.

Its all just baseless hate filled rhetoric.

Br Cornelius

I disagree. I know people who cannot find employment and almost always it is because they are unwilling, not because they are not able. People do not want to relocate to where the jobs are, people do not want to work a crappy job-gain experience, and find a better job later. Nope. Not when they can sit at home and make more money from unemployment than they can with crappy employment. People get degree's without figuring out what they want to do with it. People are living at home with mom and dad until well into their twenties, holding out for that great job, because they are unwilling to work at a lesser job. Instead of taking risk and creating employment for themselves (entrepreneurship) people are too lazy and unwilling to do it. Its not that they CANT do it, its that they WONT.


#158    Einsteinium

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 08 April 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

Why bother training people for work they will never be offered. You imagine that there is a technical job for every unemployed person. Its just lala cuckoo land thinking. Thats not even talking about the fact that a significant proporetion of those people are not able for high level eduction - where are they going to get their living wage.

Br Cornelius

Why bother sending a check to people who will never pay it back? What do you propose to do then Mr. Cornelius? What is your solution?

And let me be clear. I do not think that there is a job for everyone. That is why competition is key. Competition means that If I try hard and work better/more efficiently/etc. than you do, then I can make more than you. I can find a job when you cannot. The most motivated, the ones who try the hardest are most likely to make it and succeed. Why do you think this is bad?

Edited by Einsteinium, 08 April 2013 - 08:20 PM.


#159    Br Cornelius

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:21 PM

View PostEinsteinium, on 08 April 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

Why bother sending a check to people who will never pay it back? What do you propose to do then Mr. Cornelius? What is your solution?
Localize communities to serve most of their own needs and employ most of the wealth locally. This is the inevitable end point of where society is going in an expensive oil world. better start making it work sooner rather than later because the time of the 1950'-1990's are never coming back. Sending the wealth of communites to far off places to sit in millionaires bank accounts will kill us all as sure as night follows day.

Off to have a drink to the dead witch.

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#160    F3SS

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:26 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 08 April 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Carry on telling that the the homeless collecting charity food boxes. Your spouting verbatum an exaggerated rhetoric designed to make you hate those less fortunate than yourself.
There maybe people like you say - but they are certainly not the rule and certainly not the boggy man the Republicans are painting them as.

Br Cornelius
I don't hate those less fortunate. I don't mind helping them either. I do mind supporting them for years or for life unless their situation is more dire than simply being born a minority. The homeless though, I certainly don't hate them. They likely aren't collecting a check anymore and they live off of charity which is the real way to help. Are there zero homeless people in Ireland? Doesn't matter. Bottom line is you're an internet expert on a place you don't live in. I have disdain for moochers but again it is the government who runs amuck providing everybody with the fruits of my labor. The gov is the boogey man. The only hate and demonizing going on here is your view of America and those who succeed.

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#161    F3SS

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:32 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 08 April 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

Why bother training people for work they will never be offered. You imagine that there is a technical job for every unemployed person. Its just lala cuckoo land thinking. Thats not even talking about the fact that a significant proporetion of those people are not able for high level eduction - where are they going to get their living wage.

Br Cornelius
You're right about those things yet you feel everyone is entitled to the magical living wage. You're a liberal and you base policy off of feelings. In the real world you can't make policy out of feelings. In the real world feelings get hurt. That's just how it is.

Liberals never believe that what they are doing isn't working. They just think they haven't done enough of it yet.

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#162    CrimsonKing

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:46 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 08 April 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

I don't hate those less fortunate. I don't mind helping them either. I do mind supporting them for years or for life unless their situation is more dire than simply being born a minority. The homeless though, I certainly don't hate them. They likely aren't collecting a check anymore and they live off of charity which is the real way to help. Are there zero homeless people in Ireland? Doesn't matter. Bottom line is you're an internet expert on a place you don't live in. I have disdain for moochers but again it is the government who runs amuck providing everybody with the fruits of my labor. The gov is the boogey man. The only hate and demonizing going on here is your view of America and those who succeed.

Well said Fess,i do not mind helping the poor but when the "poor" is someone living in a house like or better than mine,getting a check every month for years on end,keep having children to help ratchet that check up,cars newer than mine,name brand clothes all the while not working or even looking for a job.....Yes i have a big ****ing problem with that!Some keep bringing up the word "poor" as the ones getting all of these benefits,sorry but the real poor are usually homeless or living of of charities not gov given tax dollars.Not my problem if someone is to lazy,stupid or unqualified to get a damn job.Maybe instead of playing the victim they should have paid attention in school,not run around doing drugs and just having fun expecting a free handout our (gov assisted poor) might have a better chance of climbing the ladder.

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#163    Sakari

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:52 PM

View PostEinsteinium, on 08 April 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

But you are wrong. What degree's are these people aspiring to get? Most likely liberal arts degree's which really are not worth much anymore. There ARE opportunities out there. Br where do you live? I live in America and let me tell you you cannot trust what you hear on the news all the time. It is always sensationalized. There are opportunities and jobs available, but you need to work for them. Computer programmers, engineers, the technical, hard sciences need people. In some fields there are more jobs available than there are people who are qualified to fill them.


Can you tell me where these oppurtunities are for people that do not have money to make money?

For the people that DO want to work hard, and make good money?

I live in America.

I was a Superintendent of a Construction Company, my wife was in sales for the Company. It shut down about 4 years ago, with no notice. I am 47 years old, she is 50. I am now working in a lumber mill, have had 3 jobs in 5 years, and living paycheck to paycheck trying to keep up. Each one has closed it's doors.

I do not " know " people that can get me a decent job back in Nevada where my family is, or anywhere for that matter. I applied for a grant to go to School as  a Pharmiceutical Tech......Denied. ( must be unemployed for over a year )  I was on un-employment at the time, but only on my 1st month, only collected 2 checks......Maybe I should try to stay unemployed, and then I will get many oppurtunities..

Denied, just as our house foreclosure help was denied.

My wife apprenticed under a Executive Chef for years, we applied for a small business loan to open a restaraunt / bakery.....Even tried the " Government " help part.

Denied ..... " Those loans are given to people that have businesses to expand their business, not for people to open new ones ".

You tell me where our oppurtunity is?

I have applied at countless places, where I have more then enough experience, have not had a chance yet. To old?.....Do not have a " inside " person to help me land the job?

Sorry, unless you know someone, or have a wealthy family that knows people, you are on your own.

And there are millions of people in worse off situations then me. I only hope I pass away before I can not work anymore, as I know I will have no retirement.

Edited by Sakari, 08 April 2013 - 08:55 PM.

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#164    F3SS

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostSakari, on 08 April 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Can you tell me where these oppurtunities are for people that do not have money to make money?

I live in America.

I was a Superintendent of a Construction Company, my wife was in sales for the Company. It shut down about 4 years ago, with no notice. I am 47 years old, she is 50. I am now working in a lumbermill, have had 3 jobs in 4 years, and living paycheck to paycheck trying to keep up.

I do not " know " people that can get me a decent job back in Nevada where my family is, or anywhere for that matter. I applied for a grant to go to School as  a Pharmiceutical Tech......Denied. I was on un-employment at the time.

Denied, just as our house foreclosure help was denied.

My wife apprenticed under a Executive Chef for years, we applied for a small business loan to open a restaraunt / bakery.....Even tried the " Government " help part.

Denied ..... " Those loans are given to people that have businesses to expand their business, not for people to open new ones ".

You tell me where our oppurtunity is?

I have applied at countless places, where I have more then enough experience, have not had a chance yet. To old?.....Do not have a " inside " person to help me land the job?

Sorry, unless you know someone, or have a wealthy family that knows people, you are on your own.

And there are millions of people in worse off situations then me. I only hope I pass away before I can not work anymore, as I know I will have no retirement.
Knowing someone is surely helpful. Aside from that, why not use your construction experience and become a handy man? Pass out fliers. They'll work so long as they look half decent. Buy as many tools as you can along the way. Even if you don't have the tools to do the job try and sell it anyways if you know what to do. Rent that tool or buy a cheap one. Do a good job and word will spread. Slowly but surely it will spread. Eventually hire a helper. He'll help you make more money. You can take bigger jobs and acquire more tools and eventually become a full on contractor. Once you pay for the tools you have them for a good while and can profit more off of each job that requires such a tool. It really sucks to start off but you are 47 not 67. You've got time still. The food business is incredibly expensive and risky but you've got the know how to fix things and things always need fixed.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 08 April 2013 - 09:03 PM.

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#165    CrimsonKing

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:05 PM

View PostSakari, on 08 April 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Can you tell me where these oppurtunities are for people that do not have money to make money?

For the people that DO want to work hard, and make good money?

I live in America.

I was a Superintendent of a Construction Company, my wife was in sales for the Company. It shut down about 4 years ago, with no notice. I am 47 years old, she is 50. I am now working in a lumber mill, have had 3 jobs in 5 years, and living paycheck to paycheck trying to keep up. Each one has closed it's doors.

I do not " know " people that can get me a decent job back in Nevada where my family is, or anywhere for that matter. I applied for a grant to go to School as  a Pharmiceutical Tech......Denied. ( must be unemployed for over a year )  I was on un-employment at the time, but only on my 1st month, only collected 2 checks......Maybe I should try to stay unemployed, and then I will get many oppurtunities..

Denied, just as our house foreclosure help was denied.

My wife apprenticed under a Executive Chef for years, we applied for a small business loan to open a restaraunt / bakery.....Even tried the " Government " help part.

Denied ..... " Those loans are given to people that have businesses to expand their business, not for people to open new ones ".

You tell me where our oppurtunity is?

I have applied at countless places, where I have more then enough experience, have not had a chance yet. To old?.....Do not have a " inside " person to help me land the job?

Sorry, unless you know someone, or have a wealthy family that knows people, you are on your own.

And there are millions of people in worse off situations then me. I only hope I pass away before I can not work anymore, as I know I will have no retirement.

I know what you are saying sakari,times are tough at the moment for a lot of honest hardworking people.Living paycheck to paycheck isnt easy for anyone,but the fact you are still working and making a living out of your own pocket and hard work says a lot.Surely it must also anger you when taxes are taken out of your pocket to feed some woman who got pregnant in high school and then just started spitting kids out every 10 to 12 months just because she learned it was easier to be handed a check than to earn one?

Edited by CrimsonKing, 08 April 2013 - 09:09 PM.

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