10148 replies to this topic

[Crikey]

seeder, on 21 January 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

I posted it just FOR YOU ...just one page back. And you miss it?..

What, this one to explain "Jigsaw walls"?-
"if you live in an earthquake zone, and you have no mortar, (you know coz aliens never thought of the sticky stuff... that man finally come up with), and you build with polygonal masonry, this means, usually, that you can remove any base or mid stone, from the structure and the wall or structure will not collapse, hence why they interlocked the stones.. simple really."

It's an interesting theory, but has it been tested? For example have scientists built a small-scale copy of the wall and then subjected it to a simulated earthquake in laboratory conditions to see if it holds up or collapses?

[seeder]

Crikey, on 21 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

What, this one to explain "Jigsaw walls"?-
"if you live in an earthquake zone, and you have no mortar, (you know coz aliens never thought of the sticky stuff... that man finally come up with), and you build with polygonal masonry, this means, usually, that you can remove any base or mid stone, from the structure and the wall or structure will not collapse, hence why they interlocked the stones.. simple really."

It's an interesting theory, but has it been tested? For example have scientists built a small-scale copy of the wall and then subjected it to a simulated earthquake in laboratory conditions to see if it holds up or collapses?

I never looked up if it had been tested. I guess if large parts are in ruin but the walls are not - that may be the proof.  The post Id hoped you read was Post #5438 on page 363....as well as visit the various links there, then you'll find PP style walls are not new at all

anyway this may help

quote: " Dr.Ramis describes these as "a complex mesh of many interwoven arches. Take a second look at the Corfu wall and you can now trace arches everywhere. Dr.Ramis further explains that "in a well built marge, most stones are surmounted by an irregular arch of other stones - and are themselves elements in one or more other arches."

"With rectangular coursed stonemasonry, if a stone is taken out of the wall, a natural corbelled arch is formed by the stones in the courses above it. With polygonal masonry, what you get is a true arch formed by 3 or more stones. The wall would not even notice the missing stone since the arch will be in tension. Because the ground under a wall tends to subside here and there over time, especially after heavy rains, the arches embodied in the wall enter into tension. Hence a polygonal wall can withstand these movements better than a rectilinear wall due to its inherent tensile strength."

In a polygonal wall "the stones are placed vertically instead of horizontally. In the event of the foundation sinking, the stones adjust, find new positions, obey gravity, work like wedges; tensile strength is not lost. In a horizontally coursed wall, a subsiding foundation immediately causes a loss of tensile strength that can never be regained."

"The arch is one of the strongest and most efficient building forms of all times, so it is not surprising to find they are integral to this walling system…. It is no wonder that in… areas subject to earthquake, a polygonal wall system evolved."

Edited by seeder, 21 January 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[zoser]

seeder, on 21 January 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I never looked up if it had been tested. I guess if large parts are in ruin but the walls are not - that may be the proof.  The post Id hoped you read was Post #5438 on page 363....as well as visit the various links there, then you'll find PP style walls are not new at all

anyway this may help

quote: " Dr.Ramis describes these as "a complex mesh of many interwoven arches. Take a second look at the Corfu wall and you can now trace arches everywhere. Dr.Ramis further explains that "in a well built marge, most stones are surmounted by an irregular arch of other stones - and are themselves elements in one or more other arches."

"With rectangular coursed stonemasonry, if a stone is taken out of the wall, a natural corbelled arch is formed by the stones in the courses above it. With polygonal masonry, what you get is a true arch formed by 3 or more stones. The wall would not even notice the missing stone since the arch will be in tension. Because the ground under a wall tends to subside here and there over time, especially after heavy rains, the arches embodied in the wall enter into tension. Hence a polygonal wall can withstand these movements better than a rectilinear wall due to its inherent tensile strength."

In a polygonal wall "the stones are placed vertically instead of horizontally. In the event of the foundation sinking, the stones adjust, find new positions, obey gravity, work like wedges; tensile strength is not lost. In a horizontally coursed wall, a subsiding foundation immediately causes a loss of tensile strength that can never be regained."

"The arch is one of the strongest and most efficient building forms of all times, so it is not surprising to find they are integral to this walling system…. It is no wonder that in… areas subject to earthquake, a polygonal wall system evolved."

Not really convincing.

For a start not all of the precision architecture in the area is polygonal.  The Coricancha walls for example are precision cuboid.  Better to look at original ideas regarding what the walls may have been for.

There is little evidence that the Sacsayhuaman megaliths were there for defensive reasons, however since that kind of convenient thinking is the bread and butter of archaeologists it wouldn't surprise me if that is the best they can come up with.

Neither am I happy with the over used classic catch phrase 'it was for all for ceremonial use'.

Something demanded that these structures be built.  Notwithstanding my deeply held beliefs that high technology methods were employed, the effort still must have been considerable.

All over the world we see megaliths.  The Peruvian artefacts may well have their own unique style but in the sense of precision megaliths we see them in various places all belonging to ancient sites.  Egypt and Baalbek being two other very notable examples.

The question has to be asked why was this necessary?  What compelled the ancients to do this?  Even the folk of Easter island with more limited resource compared to say Egypt still boasts it's precision megaliths.

That they were needed for practical reasons I wouldn't disagree; for now I put them in the category of practical as yet unexplained, rather than try to explain everything in easy to dismiss 20th century terms as historians have a terrible habit of doing.

[seeder]

zoser, on 21 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Not really convincing.

For a start not all of the precision architecture in the area is polygonal.  The Coricancha walls for example are precision cuboid.  Better to look at original ideas regarding what the walls may have been for.

There is little evidence that the Sacsayhuaman megaliths were there for defensive reasons, however since that kind of convenient thinking is the bread and butter of archaeologists it wouldn't surprise me if that is the best they can come up with.

Neither am I happy with the over used classic catch phrase 'it was for all for ceremonial use'.

Something demanded that these structures be built.  Notwithstanding my deeply held beliefs that high technology methods were employed, the effort still must have been considerable.

All over the world we see megaliths.  The Peruvian artefacts may well have their own unique style but in the sense of precision megaliths we see them in various places all belonging to ancient sites.  Egypt and Baalbek being two other very notable examples.

The question has to be asked why was this necessary?  What compelled the ancients to do this?  Even the folk of Easter island with more limited resource compared to say Egypt still boasts it's precision megaliths.

That they were needed for practical reasons I wouldn't disagree; for now I put them in the category of practical as yet unexplained, rather than try to explain everything in easy to dismiss 20th century terms as historians have a terrible habit of doing.

you 'clearly' havent read the timelines for 500 ad have you, that I posted? while the rest of the world was quite advanced...using algebra, building double deck aqueducts with no mortar, building the marvelous marble Parthenon, playing chess, inventing compasses, paddle wheel ships, toothtpaste, hot air balloons, etc....your pp inhabitants were still scratching their rses  and hauling rocks

I suggest you inform yourself of mans achievements in 500 ad by reading the list. Then your PP alien theory shudders and grinds to a most welcome halt

Edited by seeder, 21 January 2013 - 09:38 PM.

[seeder]

zoser, on 21 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Not really convincing.

For a start not all of the precision architecture in the area is polygonal.  The Coricancha walls for example are precision cuboid.  Better to look at original ideas regarding what the walls may have been for.

Now why don't you rattle on about the parts of the coriancha walls I posted - with gaps so BIG you could hide a big mac in? And the box it comes in?

ah.. youre just cherry picking select images again.. and totally ignoring what may suggest, your case is on very thin ice indeed

Great Researcher! Oh Warrior of Truth!

Edited by seeder, 21 January 2013 - 09:39 PM.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

TheOtherSide1945, on 21 January 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

i have no evidence that i have seen ufos. i dont care if you dont believe me but i know i have

actually, that is primary evidence as you arw the eye-witness.
in the battle of Neuremberg, we get "people who were there later told others wo wrote it down" second and third hand accounts, plus a few hundred years of evaluation, reevaluation and translation. But you, I'm talking to the person who themeles saw something, ans saw it within the last 30 odd years.
That's good evidence, but as you say yorself, evidence of what is up for debate.

Less of the close-minded jibes BTW, they're the fast-track to being ignored. And it's plain rude.

[DingoLingo]

zoser, on 21 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

All over the world we see megaliths.

I have always found that statement rather amusing..

Since there are not megaliths all over the world..

There are none in australia or new zealand.. canada.. ahh south africa.. russia.. and quite a few other places..

This is part of the whole AA myth that most people who believe get sucked into.. that all over the world there are these megaliths and buildings that prove that aliens were here.. yadda yadda yadda ..

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

there's no need to build giant sets of standing stones in Oz - nature provided them already.

[Slave2Fate]

Wearer of Hats, on 21 January 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

there's no need to build giant sets of standing stones in Oz - nature provided them already.

The Australian aboriginals weren't much of a builder culture were they, or am I mistaken? Similar to Native Americans?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Slave2Fate, on 21 January 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

The Australian aboriginals weren't much of a builder culture were they, or am I mistaken? Similar to Native Americans?

No real need for permanent settlement, especially with the scarcity of food in some places.

Edited by Wearer of Hats, 21 January 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[Slave2Fate]

Wearer of Hats, on 21 January 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

No real need for permanent settlement, especially with the scarcity of food in some places.

That's pretty much what I thought, given the terrain and climate of Australia. I should take the time to learn more about the aboriginal culture, it sounds fascinating.

Edit: I know we could learn quite a bit from the ancient cultures and I always find myself wondering if their way was a better life than the modern one we find ourselves in. I love technology however sometimes I think it's drawbacks outweigh it's usefulness. Anyway, that's a topic for a different thread...

Edited by Slave2Fate, 22 January 2013 - 12:08 AM.

[DingoLingo]

Yup the aboriginals are a hunter gatherer society.. still are in some places in the northern territory..

thing is to remember.. Stonehenge was also built at a time when the hunter gatherer society was still going strong.. also parts of the america's as well..

AA.. Nibiru myths.. those I really found amusing.. coming to earth to mine gold etc.. and considering australia still has freestanding gold in places.. yet.. no signs of ancient mining.. take Kalgoorlie for example.. it is the richest gold deposit in australia.. the placer gold at the time of its finding was amazing.. you could literally walk the greeks and pick it up..

So if aliens came to mine gold.. why not there? it had people the local aboriginal tribes.. if I remember rightly there are 3 main tribes in that region..

While the inland parts of australia are deserts.. they still had people.. and the coastal area's are perfect for supporting large groups (basically look how australia is settled you can see how it would support a 'advanced race')

While most aboriginals were hunter gatherers.. there were those that settled in certain spots.. basically good fishing area's etc.. the islander peoples for one.. very similar setup to the Maori's..

This is where the whole AA thing starts to fall apart.. why one civilization in certain area's and not the others?

I have said before.. I was like zoser at one time.. until I actually really started looking into things.. I became fascinated by history.. and how much knowledge was lost.. crafting techniques and skills that disappeared with changes on the way things are done.. I have said it before as well.. take blacksmithing.. that was close to becoming a lost skill.. hit the blacksmithing forum and you will find them trying to work out how things were made.. different ways of making alloys that was thought to be a modern invention.. have been found to be able to be crafted using lost skills..

So when AA's use 'experts' from today.. ie.. that stone carver.. of course he could not explain how it would have been made without modern tools.. he never learned how to do it the old way..

and that is what actually changed my mind.. looking into it fully.. taking the time to speak to recreationist craft masters.. the best thing I ever done to have opened my mind was join a medieval society and spent time with the guys who make the stuff.. one person leads you to another person.. who sends you to a group.. you learn.. ask questions.. get laughed at a couple of times and they show you 'how' it was done.. I cannot count the times that I had egg on my face from saying something was impossible and been shown that it was..

and you know what.. I am happy to say I was proved wrong plenty of times.. its nothing to feel embarrassed about.. its all about learning.. Do not stick to your guns when you have been proved wrong.. nod.. smile and say thankyou..

[Harte]

TheOtherSide1945, on 21 January 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

lol and spirit beings aren't interdimensional beings? you call it vandalism, so trolling. what about the later paintings? those can't be secret military craft.

Now, I'm going to assume here that you are actually curious about this question and haven't put on blinders just yet, or that your blinders will still come off, at least.

If you really want to know about what the heck those things are in Medeival paintings, click HERE.

Harte

Edited by Harte, 22 January 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[seeder]

DingoLingo, on 22 January 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

Yup the aboriginals are a hunter gatherer society.. still are in some places in the northern territory..

thing is to remember.. Stonehenge was also built at a time when the hunter gatherer society was still going strong.. also parts of the america's as well..

AA.. Nibiru myths.. those I really found amusing.. coming to earth to mine gold etc.. and considering australia still has freestanding gold in places.. yet.. no signs of ancient mining.. take Kalgoorlie for example.. it is the richest gold deposit in australia.. the placer gold at the time of its finding was amazing.. you could literally walk the greeks and pick it up..

So if aliens came to mine gold.. why not there? it had people the local aboriginal tribes.. if I remember rightly there are 3 main tribes in that region..

While the inland parts of australia are deserts.. they still had people.. and the coastal area's are perfect for supporting large groups (basically look how australia is settled you can see how it would support a 'advanced race')

While most aboriginals were hunter gatherers.. there were those that settled in certain spots.. basically good fishing area's etc.. the islander peoples for one.. very similar setup to the Maori's..

This is where the whole AA thing starts to fall apart.. why one civilization in certain area's and not the others?

I have said before.. I was like zoser at one time.. until I actually really started looking into things.. I became fascinated by history.. and how much knowledge was lost.. crafting techniques and skills that disappeared with changes on the way things are done.. I have said it before as well.. take blacksmithing.. that was close to becoming a lost skill.. hit the blacksmithing forum and you will find them trying to work out how things were made.. different ways of making alloys that was thought to be a modern invention.. have been found to be able to be crafted using lost skills..

So when AA's use 'experts' from today.. ie.. that stone carver.. of course he could not explain how it would have been made without modern tools.. he never learned how to do it the old way..

and that is what actually changed my mind.. looking into it fully.. taking the time to speak to recreationist craft masters.. the best thing I ever done to have opened my mind was join a medieval society and spent time with the guys who make the stuff.. one person leads you to another person.. who sends you to a group.. you learn.. ask questions.. get laughed at a couple of times and they show you 'how' it was done.. I cannot count the times that I had egg on my face from saying something was impossible and been shown that it was..

and you know what.. I am happy to say I was proved wrong plenty of times.. its nothing to feel embarrassed about.. its all about learning.. Do not stick to your guns when you have been proved wrong.. nod.. smile and say thankyou..

well said!  

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

And Psych will reach through the computer and punch the first person who suggests that the Rainbow Serpent was an alien spacecraft in the face