438 replies to this topic

[lost_shaman]

quillius, on 23 June 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:

They certainly fit dont they.

They do, and I wouldn't say that they do if they didn't.

[skyeagle409]

Quote

My hypothesis says the Goals were to...

1) Lie to the Press about a recovery. (Recovering a 'Disc' was something Ramey and his Intel. Chief Kalberer had talked about in the Press immediately following the Press reports of Kenneth Arnold's sighting.)

2) Shoot the whole thing down at the height of the 'Frenzy' embarrassing the Press so that they didn't want to report on the Phenomena. (After the RAWIN shows put on by Army and Navy starting on July 9th the Press stopped reporting 'Flying Disk' stories, by and large.)

The whole point here is that a High level Top Secret investigation had already been initiated by Lt. Gen. Twining on July 2nd. Also note that Ramey's and Kalberer's discussion of 'Discs' in the Press stopped on July 2nd. Crashed 'Aliens' on a remote Ranch can't explain any of that, but my hypothesis employs these facts.

More problems that I see iwth your hypothesis is:

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

1. Cavitt was in a position to reveal what he knew of any CIC operation years after the fact, but he didn't. Instead, he clung onto the weather balloon cover story

2. Marcel, who was involved with intelligence, could have revealed a CIC operation, but instead, he pointed out that the material he handled was so advanced that it couldn't have originated on earth

3. Rickett, a CIC person, could have revealed a CIC operation years after the fact, but instead, he confirmed the strange properties of the material he observed

4. Exon, former commanding general of Wright-Patterson AFB, could have revealed a CIC operation, but instead, he confirmed two crash he overflew long after the fact. He described the crash sites as well. He also noted that the material  flown from Roswell, was unknown to the folks at Wright-Patterson AFB.

5. Easley, who was the Provost Marshall, could have revealed a CIC operation, but he too, did not reveal any such operation, even from his death bed.

6. Haut, was also in a position to know of any CIC operation, but, he confirmed alien bodies and the craft he observed, which was revealed in his affidavit after he died.

****************************************************************************************************************************　

What we have above are, CIC, security, and intelligence personnel, a commanding officer, who could have blown the whistle at any time during the 1980s and beyond, on a CIC operation, but they did not.

We must also understand that the Roswell incident didn't begin with the military, it began with a civilian rancher in July 1947 who had no ties with th CIC.

And importantly, we still have two Roswell cover stories in effect to this very day, which also excludes a CIC operation as responsible for the Roswell incident, especially when he had headlines such as these years after the Roswell incident.





　

Quote

Yes, that's true. I developed my hypothesis after I found it to be really strange that there were a 'cluster' of RAWIN targets in the local newspapers next 'door' to Wright Field between July 5th - 8th. I postulate that the Idea originated at Wright Field after Twining ordered the investigation (July 2nd) and before the events took place during the "Roswell events" (July 8th). The concerted efforts to Fly RAWIN Targets for the Press began on July 9th.

Note how all these dates flow together. Note how simply my hypothesis ties them altogether.
Edit: To fix quoted tags.

　

Wright Field would have been the perfect place to concoct a CIC operation you've mentioned, but not at Roswell AAF, where the world's only nuclear-capable bomber group was based. The Roswell story is what brought the eyes of the whole world to that location and jammed the phone lines as well. There were recoveries, but those recoveries remain locked up behind two cover stories today.

Edited by skyeagle409, 23 June 2011 - 09:35 AM.

[lost_shaman]

skyeagle409, on 23 June 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

3. Rickett, a CIC person, could have revealed a CIC operation years after the fact, but instead, he confirmed the strange properties of the material he observed

The Famous Time photographer and writer Allen Grant's notes and memory say that His boss called him and told him the he was to cover a major breaking story and to meet up with Rickett who then Flew him out to no-where on July 8th while 'Roswell' broke as a story in the Press and Grant got left out in the cold. There are Photo's that Prove Rickett was flying Grant around during the time frame. Rickett was also positively chasing around Green Fireballs with La Paz as well, even years after 1947.

[quillius]

Hey guys, do you know much about this memo?

http://vault.fbi.gov...art 1 of 1/view

I searched here on UM but to no avail???

I assume SKy or LS have come across it before....or I hope they have

[lost_shaman]

skyeagle409, on 23 June 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

What we have above are, CIC, security, and intelligence personnel, a commanding officer, who could have blown the whistle at any time during the 1980s and beyond, on a CIC operation, but they did not.

Funny that the Twining investigation was top secret then? Considering people didn't mention it much but we know about it. Can you explain why Marcel didn't mention the Twining investigation?

skyeagle409, on 23 June 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

We must also understand that the Roswell incident didn't begin with the military, it began with a civilian rancher in July 1947 who had no ties with th CIC.

How do you know he had no ties with CIC? Brazel's Wife and Kids lived in the Famous community of Tularosa near Alamogordo. Twining had direct command over the Alamogordo base and in fact was there on July 8th.

skyeagle409, on 23 June 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

And importantly, we still have two Roswell cover stories in effect to this very day, which also excludes a CIC operation as responsible for the Roswell incident, especially when he had headlines such as these years after the Roswell incident.

How is it excluded?

Edited by lost_shaman, 23 June 2011 - 10:45 AM.

[lost_shaman]

quillius, on 23 June 2011 - 10:31 AM, said:

Hey guys, do you know much about this memo?

http://vault.fbi.gov...art 1 of 1/view

I searched here on UM but to no avail???

I assume SKy or LS have come across it before....or I hope they have

Yeah, I know about this. It also came up recently when the FBI updated it's files and someone saw this for the first time and 'freaked' out over it before they understood it.

See this thread below.

http://www.unexplain...c=203814&hl=fbi guy hottel&st=0

This post, below and for example, shows that I've mentioned this memo years ago. Also note that this particular post I mention my Co-Intel hypothesis, and I'm making a case for "rumors" before the 1970's. The latter point seems to be something Sky doesn't think 'we' understand. The link below shows I probably made the case first.

http://www.unexplain...dpost&p=1794765

Edited by lost_shaman, 23 June 2011 - 11:49 AM.

[quillius]

lost_shaman, on 23 June 2011 - 11:23 AM, said:

Yeah, I know about this. It also came up recently when the FBI updated it's files and someone saw this for the first time and 'freaked' out over it before they understood it.

See this thread below.

http://www.unexplain...c=203814&hl=fbi guy hottel&st=0

This post, below and for example, shows that I've mentioned this memo years ago. Also note that this particular post I mention my Co-intel hypothesis, and I'm making a case for "rumors" before the 1970's. The latter point seems to be something Sky doesn't think 'we' undersatand. The link below shows I probably made the case first.

http://www.unexplain...dpost&p=1794765

cheers for the info buddy  

[lost_shaman]

quillius, on 23 June 2011 - 11:44 AM, said:

cheers for the info buddy  

You are welcome.

Don't you also think it's ridiculous that Sky would act as if psyche or myself wouldn't know about mentions of Roswell before the 1970's when 'we' have discussed it years ago right here on UM?

[quillius]

lost_shaman, on 23 June 2011 - 12:05 PM, said:

You are welcome.

Don't you also think it's ridiculous that Sky would act as if psyche or myself wouldn't know about mentions of Roswell before the 1970's when 'we' have discussed it years ago right here on UM?

to be honest I am not clear as to his chain of thought seeing as there seems to be a quite a few misunderstandings along the way in this thread recently.

Probably best to post the question to sky himself, as he may be able to give reasons. My comments would just be opinions, and I prefer to avoid opinions on other posters where I can.

[DONTEATUS]

Opinions are all there is in the case of Roswell and UFO`s Until they Roll out bodys and craft for the world to inspect Its all Hollywood !

[skyeagle409]

lost_shaman, on 23 June 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

Funny that the Twining investigation was top secret then? Considering people didn't mention it much but we know about it. Can you explain why Marcel didn't mention the Twining investigation?

Why would  Marcel have to mention anything about Twining's investigation when he mentioned recovering material which he indicated could not have come from this earth? His recovery, and the fact that he never mentioned anything about the Roswell incident as a CIC operation, points elsewhere other than your hypothesis.

If the Roswell incident was a CIC operation, there would be no need to add two additional cover-up stories after more than 60 years, but as it was, the Air Force added a Project Mogul balloon train as responsible in its 1994 Roswell Report, but made no mention that the Roswell incident was a CIC operation. The Air Force then added test dummies and accident victims in its 1997 Roswell Report,, but didn't say a thing about the Roswell incident as a CIC operation.

Had the Roswell incident been a CIC operating, the Air Force would have made it known during the 1950s, but instead, it held onto its 47-year weather balloon cover story,, and then, threw that out and added that Project Mogul balloon train in 1994. The questions are:

1. Why didn't the Air Force mention anything at all about the Roswell incident as a CIC operation, but instead, added two additional cover stories after carrying its 47-year weather balloon cover story?

2. Why didn't Sheridan Cavitt mention anything about a CIC operation?  If anyone,  Cavitt wout have blown the whistle had it been truly a CIC operation, but instead, he clung onto a weather balloon as responsible for the Roswell incident, but that was before the Air Force pulled the weather balloon rug from under him in 1994.


There would have been no need to keep a CIC operation a secret after all of these ears, and yet, those who were involved in recovery efforts have  never said anything about the Roswell incident as a CIC operation, but instead, they mentioned the recovery of materials exhibiting strange properties, and they  have said  so decades later, and in some cases, right on their deathbeds and even afterward, as in the Haut affidavit. Haut could have come clean but instead, he too, have clung to extraterrestrials as responsible for the "Roswell incident.  

Quote

How do you know he had no ties with CIC? Brazel's Wife and Kids lived in the Famous community of Tularosa near Alamogordo. Twining had direct command over the Alamogordo base and in fact was there on July 8th.

Why would Brazel have ties to the CIC? Other people lived in the area as well, and  they too, have confirmed Brazel's account, but nothing there to tie them to the CIC either.

Quote

How is it excluded?

Because there would have been no need to continue to hide a CIC operation after several decades, especially after the 1950s, and  yet, there was no mention of any CIC operation as responsible for the Roswell incident after all of these years, and instead, two additional Roswell cover stories were added, and still, no mention of a CIC operation as responsible for the Roswell incident.

To further add, Roswell AAF, home of the world's only nuclear bomber group, the 509th, was the last place that you would want to cause a lot of commotion that is going to focus the eyes of the whole world to that little piece of real estate,and yet, that is what happened when it was revealed that the military recovered a flying saucer, which resulted in jammed phone lines and  the military scrambling  for damage control  efforts.

Wright-Patterson AFB would have been the place to conduct such an operation, not Roswell AAF.

Edited by skyeagle409, 23 June 2011 - 05:58 PM.

[skyeagle409]

lost_shaman, on 23 June 2011 - 09:55 AM, said:

The Famous Time photographer and writer Allen Grant's notes and memory say that His boss called him and told him the he was to cover a major breaking story and to meet up with Rickett who then Flew him out to no-where on July 8th while 'Roswell' broke as a story in the Press and Grant got left out in the cold. There are Photo's that Prove Rickett was flying Grant around during the time frame. Rickett was also positively chasing around Green Fireballs with La Paz as well, even years after 1947.

Quote

Sheridan Cavitt and Lewis Rickett's testimony

.Sheridan Cavitt of the Roswell Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC) was identified by Marcel as assisting him in investigating the crash and recovering debris, likely the "man in plainclothes" mentioned by rancher Brazel in a contemporary article as accompanying Marcel and himself. (CIC agents usually wore civilian clothes.)

He was interviewed in 1994 when the Air Force investigated the allegations of a cover-up. In the interview, he said he had no memory of ever meeting Brazel or going out with Marcel, but said he went to the crash site with his CIC assistant Sgt. Lewis Rickett.

Cavitt said the crash site was tiny, about the size of his living room or "20 feet square." "It was a small amount of, as I recall, bamboo sticks, reflective sort of material that would, at first glance, you would probably think it was aluminum foil, something of that type and we gathered up some of it. I don't know whether we even tried to get all of it. It wasn't scattered; well, what I call, you know, extensively." ^[9]

Rickett said Cavitt took him to a debris area the following day. He described an extensive cleanup of a large area involving many men, heavily guarded by MPs. He was allowed to handle a remaining piece of debris. "There was a slightly curved piece of metal, real light." "You could bend it but couldn't crease it." "It was about six inches by twelve or fourteen inches. Very light. I crouched down and tried to snap it. My boss [Cavitt] laughs and said, 'Smart guy. He's trying to do what we couldn't do.' I asked, 'what in the hell is this stuff made out of?' It didn't feel like plastic and I never saw a piece of metal this thin that you couldn't break. This was the strangest material we had ever seen ... there was talk about it not being from Earth."

My link

Lewis Rickett never said a thing about a CIC operation after all o fhose years and he was in a position to  know one way or another..

Edited by skyeagle409, 23 June 2011 - 07:41 PM.

[lost_shaman]

quillius, on 23 June 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

and I prefer to avoid opinions on other posters where I can.

I'm not asking you to give an opinion of another poster, rather another posters recent position on this thread. There is a big difference between the two.

[lost_shaman]

skyeagle409, on 23 June 2011 - 07:36 PM, said:

Lewis Rickett never said a thing about a CIC operation after all o fhose years and he was in a position to  know one way or another..

You seem to think you can prove my hypothesis wrong by simply saying that this person or that person didn't mention it. That does not falsify my hypothesis at all.

BTW, why do you keep saying CIC? My hypothesis is not specifically related to the Counterintelligence Corps, it is simply a counter Intel hypothesis that I agrue originated out of Wright Field.

[quillius]

lost_shaman, on 23 June 2011 - 12:05 PM, said:

You are welcome. Don't you also think it's ridiculous that Sky would act as if psyche or myself wouldn't know about mentions of Roswell before the 1970's when 'we' have discussed it years ago right here on UM?

lost_shaman, on 23 June 2011 - 09:13 PM, said:

I'm not asking you to give an opinion of another poster, rather another posters recent position on this thread. There is a big difference between the two.

The question didnt read like that, you imply he is acting because he should know that both you and Psyche know about the mentions of Roswell, and that this act is ridiculous.
His position is that he thinks Roswell = ET, and I am sure you were not asking him about his position regarding that.
Therefore as I already said I do not know if or why is acting like you say and his reasons for doing so, if you are convinced he is acting then you should address him to find out why.