Use of f- words in children's novels

[AA Institute]

It's always a grey area I find as to how much bad language (if any!) can be used in a novel tailored toward children's or young adult readership. But can someone here please comment if these excerpts from my forthcoming sci-fi novel strikes them as "outrageous", or the like:

EXCERPT ONE:

Silhouetted against the black, starlit night, stood the three Warriors. They were tall and majestic looking; the edges of their eyes had the hint of a fiery red glow about them, bodies cloaked in dark brown robes. The night breeze blowing in from behind them had an icy edge to it as it drifted into the cave's lounge/dining area.

"Please... please spare my family! I am all you need to take," the man who was Roopban's father pleaded to the central, male leader of the evil Warriors.

The Warrior leader transmitted a telepathic mind message to the two female companions that were flanking him. He'd been given intelligence reports about the family's whereabouts.

"I'll take care of this scum. Grab the three -- in the rooms beyond that door. Share the woman out between you, but save the two young ones for the Master."

They nodded in obedience and leapt ahead toward the inner rooms of the cave.

(Here, I'm sceptical about the use of the word "---"... does it sound too harsh/gritty/ for the mis-treatment of women?)

EXCERPT TWO:

"You know," Joey said, "looking at all this advanced technology, can't help but wonder a lot more about the ethics of these aliens."

"Ethics?" Shirin replied quizzically and with frustration.

"I mean what kind of culture do you reckon they had on that... Pritibee... place?" He asked, with almost childlike inquisitiveness.

"It sure as hell wasn't a pretty Pritibee, by any stretch of the imagination."

"I mean morality, compassion, values and beliefs. Deep stuff like that. I always thought the more advanced a society became, the more enriched their lives would be by those kinds of things."

She gave him a look. "You thought wrong. Pretty obvious from what we've seen down here and from what that poor girl went through back there. They had one culture and one culture alone : suck the -- life force out of whatever you can get your hands on!"

(Is it okay to abbreviate the f- word with asterisks? Is there a better way to have this that's more subtle?)

EXCERPT THREE:

At the mine site, Zakarov and Haroon had completed urgent refinery work on the tiny gold nuggets that had been separated from a mixture of rock and ore. The lustrous yellow metal glinted under the arc lamps, as bits of it went around on the conveyor belt, falling into a collection bin at the other end. Following gold, they'd moved onto tungsten as the last remaining metal to fill the raw materials quota specified by the MMC. Haroon had come close to breaking point from all the frustrations over the manual refining process. Especially as tungsten was not only an extremely rare metal to locate in the ice world's limited amount of rocky regolith, but its wolframite ore had also been inextricably mixed-in with impurities.

"That Simmons is such a --- moron, don't you think?" Haroon cursed. "I mean, if he had an inch of foresight, he could've prepared the bots for these frigging metals before we left the ship."

(Same as Excerpt Two - the use of the f- word?)

Sincerely appreciate any opinions however harsh/critical....

Thanks.

Edited February 1, 2006 by BurnSide

[Yelekiah]

I really don't approve even though the kids are going to learn it anyway in school.

[BurnSide]

I can't say i approve of it in childrens books at all, although i don't really have much say on that.

Unfortunately, i don't approve at all of it on this forum, bad language no matter in what context, is always removed from here right away. So i'm sorry but i've gone through the extracts and replaced any profanity with '--'. I didn't delete the whole thing since i know you probably put some work into doing it, although i know this pretty much makes the post useless now.

Sorry, but this board has zero tolerance for profanities.

[distortedpandy]

in children's books? geez, I learned it at the dinner table

[DaKong]

I don't like it either, even if they're all gonna learn it by middle school anyways. It's just wrong...

[Fluffybunny]

I really don't approve even though the kids are going to learn it anyway in school.

I agree...I do not think it is appropriate for childrens books; adult oriented books is fine, but not in kids books...

[baastetnoir]

NOT apprpriate at all...i don't know what goes by the Publishings companies heada anymore... i guess profit beatas everything else...but i really dont think they are having much profit with that ?

[nativechick1989]

Profanities used in Children's Books . . . I also don't approve! Although they'll learn it elsewhere, I wouldn't give my children, nieces or nephews a book containing such language.

[AA Institute]

Thanks folks, I'm glad we have a 100% consensus here... and I have to agree that just because some books do have such things, it's not right that I should put them in mine. So the substitute words to replace these profanities leave me thinking. Here's how I plan to change them:-

EXCERPT ONE:

"I'll take care of this scum. Grab the three Worshippers in the rooms beyond that door. Share the woman out between you, but save the two young ones for the Master."

They nodded in obedience and leapt ahead toward the inner rooms of the cave.

(The "Worshippers" are a specific race of people on that planet that the Warriors are pursuing.)

EXCERPT TWO:

She gave him a look. "You thought wrong. Pretty obvious from what we've seen down here and from what that poor girl went through back there. They had one culture and one culture alone : suck the bloomin' life force out of whatever you can get your hands on!"

EXCERPT THREE:

"That Simmons is such a stupid moron, don't you think?" Haroon cursed. "I mean, if he had an inch of foresight, he could've prepared the bots for these frigging metals before we left the ship."

Hoe does that sound?

[BurnSide]

Better.

[__Kratos__]

I don't think it'd be a good idea to let people curse in kid's books. Childhood is getting shorter and shorter... let them have their fun.

Though... it is hilarious to have a 4 year old to tell you to "---- off"

[Subtemperate]

I believe it depends on the age of the children your talking about.... Young adults? Do you mean 15-16? Because those kids can go and see those words in movies, so I can't see the point on making a big deal out of literature... Some books are aimed to identify with people, and sometimes profanity in a small from can help add realism... but it should only be at that later age when these sort of things can be taken far more seriously.

Young children, of course not.

[Purplos]

There should not be any curse words in children's literature, and, from what I understand, it is not very appreciated in adult literature either.

Also - I doulbt you would get away with the 'share the woman amongst yourselves' line. I don't think YA (young adult) book publishers will be very willing to push rape - which is what that sounds like it's talking about.

Just an idea -- you can 'curse' in a book without any of the words. The main character in my novel curses semi-regularly, but I never use any bad words.

Example: Your line: "That Simmons is such a stupid moron, don't you think?" Haroon cursed. "I mean, if he had an inch of foresight, he could've prepared the bots for these frigging metals before we left the ship."

Possible edit: "That Simmons is such a moron, don't you think?" Haroon spat angrily. "I mean, if he had an inch of foresight, he could've prepared the bots for these metals before we left the ship!" He continued down the mine shaft (or whatever), cursing loudly.

Just a suggestion of how you can show someone cursing without actually doing it.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Purplos

[different]

There should be a law against that.