Little People of the Crow Indians

[TheParanormalSite]

This is my first post in the forums, so I figured I'd share one of my favorite legends/myth I was told about when I was a kid.

I grew up in Montana on the Crow Indian reservation in the shadow of the Pryor Mountains. I'm not native, but I am related to probably half of the tribe through marriage. I remember hearing stories of the little people who were supposed to live up in the Pryors. One of the tales was one my dad used to tell me about a Crow medicine man who used to take him hunting when he was a kid. This medicine man would stay up on the buffalo pasture through the winter and keep an eye on the herd. He was an absolute believer in the little people and said he used to trade with them when he was snowed in in the cabin by the pasture. He said that he would keep packages of tobacco on hand and when he was low on food he would leave a package of tobacco on the front deck of the cabin. In the morning the package would be gone and in it's place would be a freshly killed deer. One night he decided to stay awake and try to see what one of the little people looked like. He watched as a single one of these beings hauled a deer up to the deck, dropped off the deer and took the package that was left for the trade. He said the moon was full so he got a fairly good look at the being that was a perfectly proportioned, heavily muscled man, around 2 feet tall, but an overly large head that had a large nose and a mouth full of sharp teeth.

I never really asked my dad what time frame this trading took place in, but my father had to have been hunting with this medicine man in the mid 1950's and I remember him saying that the medicine man was in his 50's then, so it must have been somewhere between 1930-1950.

Several tribes have legends of little people being shapeshifters & being very vicious. The Crow legends support those stories too. Plus in Crow legend I have never heard of any females of the race. It's taboo to talk about the little people for members of the tribe. They believe that even discussing them brings bad luck or worse.

[RedSquirrel]

Hey, welcome!

I've often wondered if the legends and stories told by the Natives are just a "Let us see how much blarney (or their term) these whites will buy". Not to be rude or anything. I like the story.

EDIT: though, the wiki page on it is quite interesting, should you want to see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_People_of_the_Pryor_Mountains

Edited March 17, 2016 by RedSquirrel

[simplybill]

Very interesting. I'd never heard of the little people legends. Thanks for sharing your story.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Very interesting. I have heard of the little people by another poster in here, a native, quite some time ago, who had some very interesting stories. Anyway, RedSquirrel, the oral traditions about Lp with the indigenous ones go back long before white man arrived, so no, they did not fabricate these stories just to fool white man.

[Wyverna]

Very interesting! I really like hearing stories and legends from Native Americans. Thanks for sharing

[Hawken]

Cool story. Natives always interested me with their myths and legends. The Hopi have the Ant People and eastern tribes have the Thunder Beings.

This is a little off the subject but do your Crow friends talk of the legendary mountain man, Jeremiah Johnson?

[Swede]

Cool story. Natives always interested me with their myths and legends. The Hopi have the Ant People and eastern tribes have the Thunder Beings.

This is a little off the subject but do your Crow friends talk of the legendary mountain man, Jeremiah Johnson?

One can only hope that you are being sarcastic. That, or your knowledge base is sorely lacking in regards to historical accuracy and various Hollywood productions.

To be more succinct, there was no "legendary mountain man" named "Jeremiah Johnson". It may be time for a bit of actual research on your part.

.

[lightly]

....but, there really is a Robert Redford.

It's interesting how common belief in wee folk has been in human history.

Thanks TheParanormalSite

[simplybill]

Jeremiah Johnson was real, though his history is a mixture of truth, legends and aliases.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver-Eating_Johnson

I suppose most biographies of mountain men are more "legendary" than factual, but the stories are fascinating nonetheless.

[Tatetopa]

This is my first post in the forums, so I figured I'd share one of my favorite legends/myth I was told about when I was a kid.

I grew up in Montana on the Crow Indian reservation in the shadow of the Pryor Mountains. I'm not native, but I am related to probably half of the tribe through marriage. I remember hearing stories of the little people who were supposed to live up in the Pryors. One of the tales was one my dad used to tell me about a Crow medicine man who used to take him hunting when he was a kid. This medicine man would stay up on the buffalo pasture through the winter and keep an eye on the herd. He was an absolute believer in the little people and said he used to trade with them when he was snowed in in the cabin by the pasture. He said that he would keep packages of tobacco on hand and when he was low on food he would leave a package of tobacco on the front deck of the cabin. In the morning the package would be gone and in it's place would be a freshly killed deer. One night he decided to stay awake and try to see what one of the little people looked like. He watched as a single one of these beings hauled a deer up to the deck, dropped off the deer and took the package that was left for the trade. He said the moon was full so he got a fairly good look at the being that was a perfectly proportioned, heavily muscled man, around 2 feet tall, but an overly large head that had a large nose and a mouth full of sharp teeth.

I never really asked my dad what time frame this trading took place in, but my father had to have been hunting with this medicine man in the mid 1950's and I remember him saying that the medicine man was in his 50's then, so it must have been somewhere between 1930-1950.

Several tribes have legends of little people being shapeshifters & being very vicious. The Crow legends support those stories too. Plus in Crow legend I have never heard of any females of the race. It's taboo to talk about the little people for members of the tribe. They believe that even discussing them brings bad luck or worse.

Thanks and welcome.

Your story was good, but I didn't mean to repeat it four times. Excuse me.

Edited March 18, 2016 by rashore
removed accidental redundant quoting

[Hawken]

One can only hope that you are being sarcastic. That, or your knowledge base is sorely lacking in regards to historical accuracy and various Hollywood productions.

To be more succinct, there was no "legendary mountain man" named "Jeremiah Johnson". It may be time for a bit of actual research on your part.

.

I think that simplybill summed it up. Now do you feel more educated?

[Indihar]

Rick Osmon, writing in The Graves of the Golden Bear, mentioned whole graveyards of little people, I believe in the vicinity of the Ohio. I recall he also stated that many of these were taken to the black hole of the Smithsonian. I also think that he said Barry Fell had taken a look at these bones.

[TheParanormalSite]

Cool story. Natives always interested me with their myths and legends. The Hopi have the Ant People and eastern tribes have the Thunder Beings.

This is a little off the subject but do your Crow friends talk of the legendary mountain man, Jeremiah Johnson?

I didn't really hear any talk of him, but I thought the movie was excellent!

[DingoLingo]

seems most indigenous tribes have stories about little people.. I remember being told about them when I spent some time in a aboriginal reservation (family tradition.. when we get about 15 years old we were dropped at the local reservation to learn bush skills my family has been around this pile of dirt since the 1800's and lived in remote area's )

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/review/in-search-of-the-indigenous-little-people-of-northern-australia/story-fn9n8gph-1226903082141

[Myles]

I read about them a while back when I was digging up native tails of bigfoot.

I don't believe I recall them being so small (2 ft).

[rashore]

Welcome to UM Please, take time to read the site rules, check out some threads... and enjoy your time here on UM.

Thanks for sharing a good wee folk legend, we don't get enough wee folk legends around here.

[Swede]

I think that simplybill summed it up. Now do you feel more educated?

In addition to improving your research skills, you may also wish to improve your close-reading proficiency. While the reference provided by Simply Bill is less than astute, even this source notes that the actual name of the historical character upon which the fictional "Jeremiah Johnson" was based was named John Johnson. This aspect is, however, not fully accurate as some accounts conclude that his original last name was Garrison and it is known that later in life he utilized the last name Johnston.

Thus, as previously noted, there was no "famous mountain man" named "Jeremiah Johnson". Should you be capable of providing credible information to the contrary, would personally appreciate reviewing such.

As to the accuracy of the fictionalized Hollywood production: The movie was based primarily upon two books, one of which was written by Thorpe and Bunker in 1958. This particular work has (wisely) been categorized as historical fiction and has received rather scathing reviews from credible historians. For example:

http://www.jstor.org...an_tab_contents

Thus, we have a fictional movie based upon fictional book. Hardly the basis for accurate understanding.

For a more scholarly and well-researched address of the topic, you may wish to purchase the following:

McLelland, Dennis J. Ed.D.

2008 The Avenging Fury of the Plains: John "Liver Eating" Johnston". Infinity Publishing.

This text along with other credible references will hopefully disabuse your apparently errant understandings.

.

[simplybill]

Swede -

I understand what you're saying, and I do take your remarks seriously. I just now edited my blog post in another section of the forums, in order to accommodate people who are even more "facts-oriented" than I am. (I strive for factual accuracy, but I also respect the oral traditions that are passed down.)

It was a minor change: I edited "He got his nickname..." to " He is said to have gotten his nickname..." I like the new version a bit more, as it adds a small aura of mystery to the story. I appreciate your input.

simplybill

[Hawken]

In addition to improving your research skills, you may also wish to improve your close-reading proficiency. While the reference provided by Simply Bill is less than astute, even this source notes that the actual name of the historical character upon which the fictional "Jeremiah Johnson" was based was named John Johnson. This aspect is, however, not fully accurate as some accounts conclude that his original last name was Garrison and it is known that later in life he utilized the last name Johnston.

Thus, as previously noted, there was no "famous mountain man" named "Jeremiah Johnson". Should you be capable of providing credible information to the contrary, would personally appreciate reviewing such.

As to the accuracy of the fictionalized Hollywood production: The movie was based primarily upon two books, one of which was written by Thorpe and Bunker in 1958. This particular work has (wisely) been categorized as historical fiction and has received rather scathing reviews from credible historians. For example:

http://www.jstor.org...an_tab_contents

Thus, we have a fictional movie based upon fictional book. Hardly the basis for accurate understanding.

For a more scholarly and well-researched address of the topic, you may wish to purchase the following:

McLelland, Dennis J. Ed.D.

2008 The Avenging Fury of the Plains: John "Liver Eating" Johnston". Infinity Publishing.

This text along with other credible references will hopefully disabuse your apparently errant understandings.

.

I was always was aware that the movie "Jeremiah Johnson" was a movie "Based On A True Story". Which means that there is

some truth to it but fiction added. When I used the word "Legendary" it means, fable, story, fairy tale, mythical and so on.

You took my first post out of context.

[simplybill]

I should clarify this sentence from my earlier post: "I strive for factual accuracy, but I also respect the oral traditions that are passed down."

Just for comparison, I will say that I regard the 2-foot-tall "little people" legends as pure legend, as there is no hard evidence to prove that little people existed.

On the other hand, the alleged behavior of Jeremiah Johnson (the name that is now generally accepted for Mr. Garrison/Johnston) is consistent with recorded behaviors of both Native-Americans and pioneers. All of the stories surrounding Mr. Johnson are within the boundaries of reality. Thus, I'm content with the story as presented, with the understanding that the story also may be a conglomeration of several people's lives.

[Hawken]

I should clarify this sentence from my earlier post: "I strive for factual accuracy, but I also respect the oral traditions that are passed down."

Just for comparison, I will say that I regard the 2-foot-tall "little people" legends as pure legend, as there is no hard evidence to prove that little people existed.

Also, Native Americans have different names for the Legendary Bigfoot.

http://www.sunstar-solutions.com/NAbigfootnames.htm

[simplybill]

Wow, that is an amazing list! A lot of research went into it, for sure.

I have to be honest though, Hawkin, I won't be able to cross over to the "believer" side until someone produces a body.

I do like reading the Bigfoot stories; it's a tantalizing mystery that always draws me in.

[Hawken]

Wow, that is an amazing list! A lot of research went into it, for sure.

I have to be honest though, Hawkin, I won't be able to cross over to the "believer" side until someone produces a body.

I do like reading the Bigfoot stories; it's a tantalizing mystery that always draws me in.

I agree. Hard evidence is needed to prove it's existence. But I try to keep an open mind that myths and legends sometimes have a grain of truth to them.

[Swede]

I should clarify this sentence from my earlier post: "I strive for factual accuracy, but I also respect the oral traditions that are passed down."

Just for comparison, I will say that I regard the 2-foot-tall "little people" legends as pure legend, as there is no hard evidence to prove that little people existed.

On the other hand, the alleged behavior of Jeremiah Johnson (the name that is now generally accepted for Mr. Garrison/Johnston) is consistent with recorded behaviors of both Native-Americans and pioneers. All of the stories surrounding Mr. Johnson are within the boundaries of reality. Thus, I'm content with the story as presented, with the understanding that the story also may be a conglomeration of several people's lives.

This would be inaccurate. No qualified researcher involved in studies of the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade period would even consider utilizing such an attribution. If there are members of the general public who are suffering under this misconception, it is due to the promulgation of inaccuracies and falsehoods by those more enamored by the "aura of mystery" (Simply Bill # 18) than historical accuracy. To briefly put the matter into perspective:

• The Rocky Mountain Fur Trade period was essentially the last phase of the Fur Trade era and was quite short lived (~ 40 +/- years).
  
• In total, the North American Fur Trade era, in its classic sense, covered a span of some 250 years.
  
• The Fur Trade era presents a period of history unique in the history of the planet.
  
• The Fur Trade era presents an incredibly complex and fluid set of socio/economic interactions and cultural exchanges that still echo through to the present period in numerous forms.
  
• The Fur Trade period was essentially the beginning of the global economy that we know today.
  
• During the span of the Fur Trade, there were numerous individuals who, in one form or another, attained various forms of notoriety. However, distinguishing and authenticating the actions and movements of such individuals requires serious research involving such documentation as primary/secondary sources, ledgers, and personal communications, in addition to archaeological studies.
  

The above outline is admittedly minimal due to the enormous complexities of the Fur Trade era and the limits of this medium. However, it should be stressed that:

1. The current age sadly allows for the repetition and dissemination of inaccurate information which is often taken from flawed sources and repeated verbatim/ad infinitum.
   
2. This results in false perceptions by those who are not personally studied in a given topic
   
3. One would wish to consider their own personal integrity when knowingly presenting or promoting inaccurate information. The case of Johnson/Johnston would be a good example. The individual was indeed an interesting and colorful character. As is often to be found in such cases, the factual aspects, when considered within their historical context, are notably more interesting than the fictionalized accounts.
   
4. To knowingly disseminate inaccurate information does a tremendous disservice to the tens/hundreds of thousands of individuals who lived and died during the course of their involvement in, or influence by, the Fur Trade era.
   

If one is truly interested in studying the Fur Trade, there are extensive primary resources available. Depending upon one's particular temporal/geographic focus, these can range from the likes of the Jesuit Relations and Perrot to Pike, Schoolcraft, and Nicollet to Lewis & Clark, Catlin, and Larpenteur, to name but a very few.

As it would would appear that you have some interest in the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade period, the following will provide you with at least a starting point:

http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/

It would be hoped that by availing yourself of these and other resources you will be in a position to publicly present accurate information rather than perpetuating falsehoods.

.

[Swede]

Also, Native Americans have different names for the Legendary Bigfoot.

http://www.sunstar-s...igfootnames.htm

As is common with such lists (the K. Strain list comes to mind), it is riddled with inaccuracies. For example, the utilization of the term "Windigo" is Algonquian, not Athabascan, and has nothing to do with a "Bigfoot-like" entity.

.