325 replies to this topic

[the L]

Sorry cormac but word "tribes" put Illyrians with Aborigins and Zulu.

[kmt_sesh]

the L, on 04 October 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Sorry cormac but word "tribes" put Illyrians with Aborigins and Zulu.

That's only if you prefer to see them in that light, which isn't necessarily how the word "tribe" ought to be regarded in historical terms. This term does not mean "knuckle-dragger" (nor am I applying this remark to native Australians or the Zulu, mind you).

"Civilization" is a whole other category that cannot be applied to most peoples of ancient history. Some, like the Sumerians and Egyptians, evolved from tribal roots to become great civilizations, but on average few others did. The Illyrians simply do not fit this category.

But this thread is not about the Illyrians (and most of the photos you showed, L, represent cross-cultural transfer from Greece and other neighboring civilizations, and influences therefrom, to tribal Illyrians).

[the L]

Kmt,
I dont prefer nothing. According to Science they are called tribes same as Zulu.

Im sure that will chage. Same as we today see Mongols in different lights.

Ofcourse this thread isnt about Illyrians but I used them in order that you see how science can be dead wrong. I could use Thracians instead.

Btw, you are wrong. They are not cross cultural transfer from Greece. Only in Daorson and few other places we can see influence from Greece. We divide Illyrians into four categories which only one share similariteis with Greeks. One with Celts. Other with Italics and one with Thracians. But in some area in Italy Illyrians were before then Italics. How do you know that Italics didnt borrow from Illyrians instead. Its just pure speculation. Beside they have had their uniqness that cant be ignored. Ofcourse to not carefull eye that can be missed.

I read every book I got that is connected with Illyrians. There is people who thinks differently then what wrote in wiki or others book.
But as I said Thracians and Zulu are not on same level yet scince called them as they were.

Its still living Greek and Roman influence.
Its old story about winners and who has written word.

Edited by the L, 05 October 2012 - 06:32 AM.

[Abramelin]

cormac mac airt, on 04 October 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Did you really have to hijack this thread to talk about Illyrians? It might be better if you started another thread.

cormac

Sounds great to me.

[the L]

Abramelin, on 05 October 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

Sounds great to me.

You , as cormac, missed the point.

Hint:Post158.

Edited by the L, 05 October 2012 - 06:35 AM.

[Abramelin]

the L, on 05 October 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

You , as cormac, missed the point.

Hint:Post158.

I didn't miss the point, but I know how easily a thread can derail.

Now you have two topics with which you can start threads :

-1- Culture vs. Civilization.
-2- The ancient Illyrians.

I think the second one could be a very interesting thread.

[docyabut2]

Could Gobekli Tepe have been birthing centers? Eighteenth picture down shows a human baby comming out of a large humanoid figure.

http://www.earthfile...ategory=Science

Edited by docyabut2, 05 October 2012 - 09:45 AM.

[Abramelin]

docyabut2, on 05 October 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Could Gobekli Tepe have been birthing centers? Eighteenth picture down shows a human baby comming out of a large humanoid figure.

http://www.earthfile...ategory=Science

Yes, but on top of that stone totem pole appears to sit what looks like a predator.

Nice find, btw, never seen that one before.

[Abramelin]

I've uploaded them to my picture host;

[the L]

Abramelin, on 05 October 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

I didn't miss the point, but I know how easily a thread can derail.

Now you have two topics with which you can start threads :

-1- Culture vs. Civilization.
-2- The ancient Illyrians.

I think the second one could be a very interesting thread.

Im sure too that Illyrians deserve better place in history then todays public opinion about them. Saying that Im sure that people we will be surprised by them. I was when I was reasearching about them. Many things dont wrote in books which you can find on field. Its because Yugoslavia was not open to reasearching it. Communism and socalism, brotherhood and unity. Then came war and fall of Yugoslavia and so on. Now I will shut my mouth for not trolling this thread any more.
I apologize for OP and others members who find my posts irelevant to topic.

[Harte]

the L, on 05 October 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Im sure too that Illyrians deserve better place in history then todays public opinion about them.

Again, Anthropological terms are not considered to be in any way a judgement of morality or value.

Please note that many ancient (and not so ancient) civilizations were extremely barbaric by today's standards, while many cultures and tribes were far less so.

Harte

[Ove]

Harsh86_Patel, on 10 August 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Why would hunter gathers decide to quarry stone and build huge circular structures.

The stylized statues were the great Lords of the Animal kingdom, worshiped by hunter-gatherer societies +/- 10 000 BC

Edited by Ove, 05 October 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[kmt_sesh]

the L, on 05 October 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Kmt,
I dont prefer nothing. According to Science they are called tribes same as Zulu.

Im sure that will chage. Same as we today see Mongols in different lights.

Ofcourse this thread isnt about Illyrians but I used them in order that you see how science can be dead wrong. I could use Thracians instead.

Btw, you are wrong. They are not cross cultural transfer from Greece. Only in Daorson and few other places we can see influence from Greece. We divide Illyrians into four categories which only one share similariteis with Greeks. One with Celts. Other with Italics and one with Thracians. But in some area in Italy Illyrians were before then Italics. How do you know that Italics didnt borrow from Illyrians instead. Its just pure speculation. Beside they have had their uniqness that cant be ignored. Ofcourse to not carefull eye that can be missed.

I read every book I got that is connected with Illyrians. There is people who thinks differently then what wrote in wiki or others book.
But as I said Thracians and Zulu are not on same level yet scince called them as they were.

Its still living Greek and Roman influence.
Its old story about winners and who has written word.

I've re-evaluated my earlier comment. I see why you brought up the Illyrians. Some of us have been emphasizing that Göbekli Tepe was not a civilization, and you were using the Illyrians as a similar example. I assure you neither was a civilization, based on the anthropological model, but there was nothing wrong with using the Illyrians.

You just went a bit overboard with post after post of photos—a veritable bandwidth bandit! The same thing could've been illustrated in one post with maybe a single embedded image and two or three links to photos. It was only the number of posts and photos that came across a bit heavy handedly.

The Mongols are an interesting case study. We recently had a large exhibit at the Field Museum about Genghis and the Mongols. Usually this is something outside my sphere of interest and much too "current events" for my tastes, but I was surprised by how much I liked the exhibit. I spent quite a lot of time in there. The Mongols certainly were not a civilization until the time of Genghis and his long period of conquering (as well as the same by his sons and grandsons). They created the Mongol civilization, which had lasting influences from China to Iran and into portions of Europe.

[the L]

kmt_sesh, on 05 October 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

The Mongols are an interesting case study. We recently had a large exhibit at the Field Museum about Genghis and the Mongols. Usually this is something outside my sphere of interest and much too "current events" for my tastes, but I was surprised by how much I liked the exhibit. I spent quite a lot of time in there. The Mongols certainly were not a civilization until the time of Genghis and his long period of conquering (as well as the same by his sons and grandsons). They created the Mongol civilization, which had lasting influences from China to Iran and into portions of Europe.

I hate to go offtopic again but you cant ignore Moderator. (I wish you all luck btw-nice that it was you. But somehow I remeber 2pac line when he say we ain't ready to see a black President...Are we ready to see fringe moderator?...But if one sceptic must be a moderator Im glad that was you since you become like brand on UM.)

I apologize for trolling thread with Illyrians and uploading 1/50 of what I have. I was just out of order there.... I adore Mongols. When you see them in right light then you realize that they were like civilization from another planet. Literaly.That history of humans isnt always history about humans at all. Also they are just cream of the crop of people of steppe. They just let us know wht happens centuries before. Mongols were 500 years after the Huns,who lived 500 years after Xiangnu, who lived 100 years after Scythians....There was not much diffrence in way of life from Xiangnu and Mongol except different armour.

[Abramelin]

Thanks  -L- for starting a new thread.

Now I do hope the boys and girls who have been haunting you trying to 'nail you down' will finally shut up or contribute ON-topic.

This thread is about Göbekli Tepe and ancient Anatolia.