61 replies to this topic

[Professor T]

StarMountainKid, on 15 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

How do elementary particles have consciousness? I would think when elementary particles interact with each other, the interaction is a cause and effect relationship that occurs automatically, determined by the probabilistic behavioral laws the particles adhere to.

The only way our consciousness relates to elementary particle's behavior is if and when we decide to turn on some measuring device to discover what the particle has done. I think this is one step away from our consciousness interacting with the particle directly. I see no direct relationship between our consciousness and the behavior of matter on the quantum scale.

We've discussed this before if I remember right, I think it was in relation to the LHC and the god partical, I think it may have been something about the nessessity of nothingness..
My premis places consiousness as the fundimental reality of the universe, and everything else in the universe is a result of it..
This comes from the fact that matter, that which we think is something that is physical and real, at it's most basic levels of particals, behaves consciously.. Nothingness, emptiness, the lack of any physical particals or anything is not nothingness at all, it is unlimited potential that allows consciousness to exist..

Edited by Professor T, 15 November 2012 - 08:09 PM.

[Lilly]

Ryu, on 15 November 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

Tell you what, if you really doubt reality then go stand in the middle of a moderately busy highway and see what happens.
Go break someones living room window or kick a bear in the butt..then ask your questions about reality.

Well, I wouldn't advocate taking it quite that far...could be a very short lived experiment.

To paraphrase the sci-fi author Philip K. Dick, "Reality is that which does not go away when I stop believing in it".

[Ryu]

Lilly, on 15 November 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

Well, I wouldn't advocate taking it quite that far...could be a very short lived experiment.

To paraphrase the sci-fi author Philip K. Dick, "Reality is that which does not go away when I stop believing in it".

If you had an observer taking notes then not all is lost.

[JGirl]

freetoroam, on 15 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Do you mean a mute? unless it was suicide, the person who shot them would hear it.....although may not admit it if caught.

no i mean a mime - someone who acts out scenerios, emotion, etc without speaking.
ok it's not funny if i have to explain the joke!

[StarMountainKid]

ProfessorT said:

We've discussed this before if I remember right,

Yes, I remember.  While we may disagree, I think I understand your position, and I do respect your thoughts on the subject. I think the nature of fundamental reality will be open to debate for a long, long time. It's obviously the greatest mystery of all. A complete solution to the question may be beyond the capabilities of the human mind.

[FlyingAngel]

CuriousGreek, on 15 November 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

To finish with, my point is that, if i hadn't seen grass for once in my life, that doesn't mean that grass does not exist. I hope i made myself clear!!!

Or to put it in a whole new level: if you haven't seen God for once in your life, it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist

[Beany]

Until a couple of weeks ago, I used to think absolute reality existed. Now I'm not so sure, or I'm not sure that we would be able to detect or see it if it existed. Certainly there is some consistency, but there's also a lot of inconsistency, too. Sure, when we look at green grass we can be pretty sure it's green, except if one is color blind. But two people could eat vanilla ice cream and one could love it and one could detest it. What's the reality of the ice cream itself? Tasty or disgusting? Depends on the perceiver. And I wonder how many of us are "blind" to some aspects of the world around us, how many of us project our own reality & perceptions onto the world at large, and to what degree our projections inhibit us from seeing what's really there, or here, as the case may be.

So if one is a Buddhist, one might see the world as being full of suffering, and humanity as suffering. Yet there are many people who don't hold this worldview. So what would the absolute truth of this be? And would the "truth" vary from person to person, according to their experiences, education, knowledge, philosophy, upbringing, religion, etc.? So who would be the arbiter of what was absolutely true? Even science can't determine what is absolutely true in some cases, as acquisition of new information often leads them to new conclusions & understanding. What I've come to understand about myself & this subject is that where once I was certain of absolute truth, (is that an oxymoron?) now I'm starting to think that once again I'm not as smart as I think I am. Believing in absolute truth, for me, was a primal law formed at some point in the way-back machine, that once I examine, seems to be questionable.

[Rlyeh]

Professor T, on 15 November 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

This comes from the fact that matter, that which we think is something that is physical and real, at it's most basic levels of particals, behaves consciously..

If indeed a fact, what experiments have been performed to determine this?

[Professor T]

I think you hit the nail on the head right about here..

Beany, on 16 November 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

Depends on the perceiver. And I wonder how many of us are "blind" to some aspects of the world around us, how many of us project our own reality & perceptions onto the world at large, and to what degree our projections inhibit us from seeing what's really there, or here, as the case may be.

Edited by Professor T, 16 November 2012 - 04:17 AM.

[Professor T]

Rlyeh, on 16 November 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

If indeed a fact, what experiments have been performed to determine this?

The particle wave duality experiment.

The Double slit experiment.

Wave/partical duality..

[pallidin]

"Absolute Reality" ?

You're in it right now.

[Rlyeh]

Professor T, on 16 November 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

The particle wave duality experiment.

The Double slit experiment.

Wave/partical duality..

Which none of these show the particles behaving consciously.

If you interact with a ball, is it conscious? It reacts in the same sense from your action.

Edited by Rlyeh, 16 November 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[orangepeaceful79]

My thought upon reading the initial post is that its a pretty self-centered human viewpoint to even wonder if our perception of reality is the only thing that validates it.  If every human on the planet somehow spontaneously and simultaneously vaporized into nothing reality would keep on trucking.  It'd be a whole hell of a lot quieter though, because there'd be nobody around to debate deep philosophical truths like this thread.  Might be kinda peaceful.....

[Likely Guy]

Does Absolute Reality Exist?
Is reality absolute or eye in the beholder?

Experiment:
Take a hammer and smash your thumb.

Result:
That may answer any airy-fairy questions you might have.

That was a short answer. Of course reality exists, why would it not?

[sutemi]

Beany, Prof T and SM Kid, I like your posts. Can I share this 14 min vid with you all. I think it touches on what you have all  touched on in your posts. Hope you like it. Take care

Edited by sutemi, 16 November 2012 - 05:42 AM.