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Why are male homosexuals so talented

homosexual homosexuals arts

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#61    sk8tan71

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:48 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 07 February 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

This is my first stab at starting a theme, and I'm sticking my neck out.  Still, it is something I've noticed.  Not all homosexuals I'm sure are artists, and I don't know enough of them to have any idea, but it sure seems to me that they loom large in the arts -- acting, dancing, decorating, writing, fashion, design, even hairdressing.  Homosexuals compose maybe two percent of the population (if you include people who've had some such experience then maybe ten percent) but they are at least a third to half of these artistic areas.  I travel a lot and this applies around the world -- not just in the West but certainly in Asia too.

Is this true or an illusion?  If true, why?

Well I don't think the amount of gay people involved in the arts is as high as you seem to think.  However, I would tend to agree that homosexuals find more success in the arts.  The main reason is that artists by nature are contrary to the rest of society, so a flamboyantly gay man like Liberace or Andy Warhol (I like rocking it 60s style) is more easily embraced by the artistic community so those artists don't need to worry about keeping up appearances, which allows them to concentrate on their craft.  As far as actors go, the Rock Hudsons and Robert Reeds had success because as far as they were concerned, their public faces were just another character so it was a chance for them to practice their craft, and you did have exceptions to the rule like Paul Lynde and Jim Neighbors who were so gay they made an Easter basket look boring in comparison, but they never carried roles of significant weight or importance, so middle America just looked at them as odd curiosities that was freeing in its own right for an artist.

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#62    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:55 AM

You know, you start out denying my point and then go ahead to provide evidence for it.


#63    wimfloppp

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 10:13 AM

I dont know about gay people being artistic but ive always thought that left handed people were.


#64    dekker87

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:03 AM

haven't read thru the whole thread so apologies if this has been mentioned previously....but gay men appear to achieve more for the same reason that they have vastly more spending power - a lack of women and children.

on the surface a slightly chauvanistic statement....but think about it.


#65    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:47 AM

And maybe a lot more free time.


#66    dekker87

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:05 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 03 April 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

And maybe a lot more free time.

yes.

less stress.

in short more chance to live up to personal 'potential'.

but then all we're really here for is procreation anyway so the definition of 'talent' needs inspection in this context....

Edited by dekker87, 03 April 2013 - 02:06 PM.


#67    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:22 PM

Well we are not all here to procreate, and a lot of those who do shouldn't.

If that were all we were here for I would have killed myself when my wife and I found out we couldn't have children.  Instead we adopted.  Not quite procreating but close.  Now that even that is passed I'm still here, although at this point I'd be hard pressed to say why.


#68    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:37 PM

I went to a performing arts college, lots and lots of gay people there - especially for subjects like drama and dance. A good amount of gay people tend to, from my observations, study the more "girly" subjects in general, which some arts can be seen to be as.

Edited by The Skater Boy, 03 April 2013 - 02:39 PM.

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#69    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:46 PM

It is nowadays politically incorrect to suggest that male homosexuals often or even usually have a stronger feminine element in them than do most men and female homosexuals have a stronger male element in them than most women, but I think objectively this is pretty obvious.  I don't, however, think there is anything wrong in this.  In fact I think it may be a large net positive for society when people are free to be whoever and whatever they are.


#70    FLOMBIE

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:56 PM

It's not just politically incorrect, it is incorrect. Yes. there are gays who have strong female side, just like there are heteros who have a strong female side. What about gay rugby players. Would you say they generally have a stronger female side than the male players? Also, would you say that lesbians have a stronger male element than hetero women? And why would that be obvious? Probably because these "types" of homosexuals are easy to spot, while the rest is blending in perfectly without you even taking notice.


#71    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 03:13 PM

The homosexual rugby player. Well, I dunno; and I doubt we could prove the issue one way or the other.  With things as they are the needed studies would be hard to carry out in a way free of cultural and ideological distortion.

I know that there exists a gay sub-culture of guys who emphasize their masculinity, wearing leather and riding motorcycles and all.  Will that do?


#72    FLOMBIE

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 03:39 PM

I don't think we need studies to confirm this. Gays are very diverse, just like all people. To say they are "obviously" more female is a misconception, and probably due to the fact that you won't spot the other gays. If you ever come to Berlin, we can go grab a couple of pints with my gay friend at a gay bar (and yes, us heteros are allowed to enter). You could see for yourself, then. :)


#73    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 03:52 PM

There is nothing wrong with femininity and we all have feminine aspects in our nature.  This is what I think makes the subject so hard to pin down.  

There is a young man in our neighborhood who does faces for models and movies -- both the men and the women -- and I know he is gay, because a few days ago we talked about it.  You would never say he was gay to look at him or his clothes or his mannerisms, and I found out he has a monogamous partnership.  He is also a genius, inventing new looks for movie monsters and a certain "Korean" fashion look that is now very popular here.  

Where does this talent come from except from what we might identify as something that is associated with being gay -- it is a talent that is far more common in women than in men.

I also have a suspicion that there is pressure among gays nowadays to not appear gay, for political reasons.  I hope that isn't what is going on -- people should be what they are.


#74    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:04 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 03 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

I don't think we need studies to confirm this. Gays are very diverse, just like all people. To say they are "obviously" more female is a misconception, and probably due to the fact that you won't spot the other gays. If you ever come to Berlin, we can go grab a couple of pints with my gay friend at a gay bar (and yes, us heteros are allowed to enter). You could see for yourself, then. :)

It's a bit different in England :P I've heard of people turned away because they didn't "look" gay enough. Though in saying that, I've been in a gay bar before and went on to pull a lady... now that's talent!

I agree that not all gays are feminine and whatnot, just that was my observation at college that a lot of gay people go on to study subjects we might consider "girly" like arts and hairdressing. But there could be just as many studying construction, they just don't follow the stereotype, nor are they easy to identify immediately as gay.

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#75    FLOMBIE

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:10 PM

I usually don't like splitting up posts, but I do it for clarity now.

View PostFrank Merton, on 03 April 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

There is nothing wrong with femininity and we all have feminine aspects in our nature.  This is what I think makes the subject so hard to pin down.  
That is kind of what I wanted to say. We all, men and women, have both male and feminine sides, and there is of course nothing wrong with that. Same goes for hormones, and we can measure that. But if you are a boy with a stronger female side, that doesn't make you gay. It's different from person to person, regardless of their sexuality.

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There is a young man in our neighborhood who does faces for models and movies -- both the men and the women -- and I know he is gay, because a few days ago we talked about it.  You would never say he was gay to look at him or his clothes or his mannerisms, and I found out he has a monogamous partnership.  He is also a genius, inventing new looks for movie monsters and a certain "Korean" fashion look that is now very popular here.  
It's everywhere, trust me! :D

Quote

Where does this talent come from except from what we might identify as something that is associated with being gay -- it is a talent that is far more common in women than in men.
Is it really? I know plenty of male and hetero artists. Sculptors, for example, with one guy designing dolls. He is straight as an arrow. And lots of men have some kind of modeling as a hobby.

Quote

I also have a suspicion that there is pressure among gays nowadays to not appear gay, for political reasons.  I hope that isn't what is going on -- people should be what they are.
While I think it is the other way round: People seem to care less and less if someone is gay or not. For instance, the current foreign minister of Germany is gay, as well as the mayor of Berlin.

In the end, this all comes down to stereotypes, which are more often untrue than true. Do all gays like musicals? Do all straight guys like big boobs? Are all lesbians "Butch"? These are all personal preferences; it comes down to a person's character, and that usually does not have anything to do with one's sexuality, while there are of course some people, who mainly define themselves over their sexuality, like the "flamboyant gay guy" and your typical "macho straight guy".

Edited by FLOMBIE, 03 April 2013 - 04:18 PM.





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