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Does the name Jesus make you mad? Why ?

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#121    Abramelin

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:30 PM

View Postpbarosso, on 12 October 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

you cant know until you have tried. besides those who get physically ill or angry when they hear Jesus's name may have something wrong with them. its called intolerance or demonic posession i guess.

I know of people who were in a situation like I described.


#122    Abramelin

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:43 PM

View PostLion6969, on 14 October 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

So you agree with me, good! Now take your belief out of it and points raised were there is no evidence for his existence, this alone does not suffice as proof of Jesus not existing does it. Based on lack of evidence you can hold any belief you like, but you can't categorically say he did not exist. You can say there are reasons to believe he did not exist, and the counter is there are reasons that he did exist, and cases can be presented either way.

Jesus is spoken about and talked about by so many people over centuries etc from relevant regions to other parts of the world etc.

To suggest he did not exist would also suggest that there was an almost global conspiracy on an unpresidented scale and over 100s of years. If so then you also have to prove that conspiracy with proof and reasoning.

:)

People, for many centuries, thought the earth was flat.

That something or something is believed in for a long time doesn't make it more true.


#123    Abramelin

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 14 October 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

When you watch  trick  by people such as Dynamo...

Walk on water..




Walks down a building..



And many more like it - Levitation, walking through glass etc etc..

If he was back in the times of Jesus,  I am willing to bet that many would think he was from god  or gods son too...

My point is.. I think that if this Jesus was real, he may have been the Dynamo of his day and a few of the stories exaggerated from tales past around...

Great! And that second video... we know it's a trick, but still, the guy must have steel balls to walk down the building like he did, and trust whatever was helping him perform the trick.


#124    Vatic

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:57 PM

Here is one are we have not addressed: The degree to which the person invoking Jesus is responsible for the anger he provokes in others.

We can't assume all believers are some kind of cool smooth Guru types that when they mention Jesus, there is no basis for anyone to be anything besides mellowed out. You've seen it, I've seen it, the believer who with a toxic vibe in his attitude, uses Jesus name in such an offensive way, that you can't blame the person he is directing himself to, for getting mad.



Now click the video and listen to this wonderful wonderful song while you read the rest of what I have to say:



Another case is the "fanatic conundrum". Fanatics are wonderful, if you have the patience to deal with them. But most people lack that kind of patience and the fanatic just wears them out! There is always an issue going on with a fanatic in his piety vis a vis everyday life. Keeping a fanatic reasonable can be exhausting. But fanatics, in their own wonderful way, play an important role. They are open demonstrations of the power of God to be transformative in a persons life. When you see the drug dealer, overnight become a spokeperson of jesus, YOU KNOW something wonderful ahs happened. You just can't blame the man for his ecstatic state of mind and his excited preaching. The fanatics aren't usually very deep or knowledgable, but they make up for it in passion. Their existence is the testimony of the redemptive power of God for every man.

BUT, the fanatic can make a person lose their patience. Nobody is immune to Fanatics. We love them, but even believers, parents, spouses, skeptics, police, preachers and on and on, can lose patience with our beloved fanatics. I have written proverbs about fanatics:

Bryson 1:1 "I may be a fanatic, but I have a good act."

This is for the fanatics themselves to realize they come on so strong! if they can channel that passion to motivation, yet polish up their approach, then we have the best of both. A fanatic soul and the cool spirit.

Bryson 1:2 "Never argue with a fanatic, you make him stronger."

Just the chance to talk about Jesus with ANYONE is all the fuel the fanatic needs added to his fire. We should be aware of this and hold our peace, because in the fanatics spirit is a mighty move of God and we can't face such a strong force the fanatic himself can't even control. Right our wrong, the fanatic is on fire! We should rejoice, but understand this is going to take a while for the fanatic to calm down and get on track.

Bryson 1:3 "You may not agree with a fanatic, but having one around keeps your mind on the subject."

Have you ever noticed how confused the fanatic is? He can't hardly process what is happening to him. It is so powerful, it is making him burst out in fire of the spirit! Yet he is still unlearned. Almost everything he says will be utterly incorrect and nonsense in the conventional sense. But you can't argue with that spirit moving him. Everyone will be talking about how crazy so and so has become and how he has so many mistaken ideas. But look at what happens to people who have a fanatic around them. They quietly start seeking God, restoring themselves in faith, praying privately and returning to their churches, repenting of wrong doing and other such things. They never agreed with a word the fanatic said, but they felt the spirit in him, and desired to return to God themselves!

Sure the fanatics makes you mad. But God bless those fanatics because they remind us so much of the salvation of Jesus and the redemptive power of God to change our lives for something holy and pure.

Edited by Vatic, 14 October 2012 - 11:05 PM.


#125    Abramelin

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:03 PM

View PostDash--, on 14 October 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Simon Magus.(Think that's who your talking about)

Acts of Peter

The apocryphal Acts of Peter gives a more elaborate tale of Simon Magus' death. Simon is performing magic in the Forum, and in order to prove himself to be a god, he levitates up into the air above the Forum. The apostle Peter prays to God to stop his flying, and he stops mid-air and falls into a place called the Sacra Via (meaning, Holy Way), breaking his legs "in three parts". The previously non-hostile crowd then stones him. Now gravely injured, he had some people carry him on a bed at night from Rome to Ariccia, and was brought from there to Terracina to a person named Castor, who on accusations of sorcery was banished from Rome. The Acts then continue to say that he died "while being sorely cut by two physicians"
.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Simon_Magus


#126    Abramelin

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

View PostVatic, on 14 October 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

There does seem to be a compulsion for people to argue that Jesus isn't real. What is causing people to put so much energy into such a reaction to Jesus? What is eating at them?

Dunno. Maybe it's because after the Christians had been persecuted, they - when finally in power - started persecuting other people in their turn?

I know Christians nowadays are moaning about how they often get a bad reception when they start talking about their faith, forgetting that it is only for bit more than a century or so that people dare to talk up to them without the risk of being hanged, beheaded, or drowned.

Times have changed.

We have been lied to and been manipulated by all these 'devout believers' for almost 2000 years.

We have had enough of it. Well, many have.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 October 2012 - 11:14 PM.


#127    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:40 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 October 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Great! And that second video... we know it's a trick, but still, the guy must have steel balls to walk down the building like he did, and trust whatever was helping him perform the trick.

I thought it was a bit freaky to watch, but at the same time amazing... I watch his programme every week

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#128    Arbitran

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:45 PM

View PostVatic, on 14 October 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Sure the fanatics makes you mad. But God bless those fanatics because they remind us so much of the salvation of Jesus and the redemptive power of God to change our lives for something holy and pure.

Nobody need be reminded of that; anymore than I need to be reminded to go to Mars next Tuesday to attend a rugby match with Mahatma Gandhi (who, in this scenario, evidently manages to walk among us in the modern day using the same magical powers Christians claim that Jesus has). It's just silly. Again, dead people don't save anybody; nor do fictional characters (God). And again, you haven't outlined what exactly we're supposed to be getting saved from. (For the record, I obviously know what you'll say; the question is more to have you enchant us with your no-doubt riveting personal version of the story, as skeptical as I predict I'll be of it.)

Edited by Arbitran, 14 October 2012 - 11:46 PM.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#129    csspwns

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 04:00 AM

View PostJeffRobinson, on 02 October 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

What irritates me is that i was raised in school and stuff, to fear NOT believeing in him, or id go to hell, and be tortured with my worst fear. Why does a religion have to scare you into believing them? even now i hate talking bad or in disbelieve in God because of the fear built in me by priest and teachers
boom good job

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#130    Rlyeh

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:09 PM

View PostVatic, on 14 October 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Arbitran, it is very common for followers of Jesus to encounter anger at the mention of Jesus Christ. Why would you say this isn't true? I pesonally have witnessed many angry responses to Jesus. For instance I was involved in Messianic Ministry, which is a ministry for Jewish believers in Jesus. In the course of things I have encounters with jewish individuals who did not believe in Jesus. A significant proportion of the responses would be anger. In fact, there were classes offered in the local Temple, Synagogue and Shule were the Jewish people were taught how to deal with Evengelism for Jesus. One of the primary tactics taught was to be intolerant and angry toward Evangelist and utterly discourage any further discourse. What is their problem?
So what is it? Are they angry at Jesus or some tool with an agenda?
I notice much of the anger is at the arrogance of various Christians.


#131    markdohle

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:28 PM

Jesus made a lot of claims, and yes most scholars believe that he existed, not all of them believers in God or Jesus by any means.  He claimed that we need to repent, that we need grace, that we are responsible for our lives and that in the end; we either become heaven by grace or hell by an act of self creation.  Yes I can see why people get upset by his name.  It has always been in our ball park; we failed, screwed up and still do.  Without grace, without the love of Jesus Christ we would be 'hell'.  I don't preach, I try to live the Gospel message, which is centered on Jesus Christ.  People can think what they want, believe what they want and react to the name of Jesus the way they want......we have that freedom.  For me the name of Jesus brings love to my heart and I worship him as my Lord and Savior.  I love the name of Jesus Christ and the very fact that people use his name so often in ways that are contemptuous says something about his reality.  I know that some hate the name of Jesus because of the failings of Christians, yet that is what they are, failings.  The message of Jesus is one of healing and salvation for all.  To reject that, again, is a free act and those who do will get what they desire, themselves for all eternity minus the very thing they are made for, the love and union of the infinite as manifested in Jesus.

Edited by markdohle, 16 October 2012 - 12:29 PM.


#132    Dash--

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:29 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 16 October 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Jesus made a lot of claims, and yes most scholars believe that he existed, not all of them believers in God or Jesus by any means.  He claimed that we need to repent, that we need grace, that we are responsible for our lives and that in the end; we either become heaven by grace or hell by an act of self creation.  Yes I can see why people get upset by his name.  It has always been in our ball park; we failed, screwed up and still do.  Without grace, without the love of Jesus Christ we would be 'hell'.  I don't preach, I try to live the Gospel message, which is centered on Jesus Christ.  People can think what they want, believe what they want and react to the name of Jesus the way they want......we have that freedom.  For me the name of Jesus brings love to my heart and I worship him as my Lord and Savior.  I love the name of Jesus Christ and the very fact that people use his name so often in ways that are contemptuous says something about his reality.  I know that some hate the name of Jesus because of the failings of Christians, yet that is what they are, failings.  The message of Jesus is one of healing and salvation for all.  To reject that, again, is a free act and those who do will get what they desire, themselves for all eternity minus the very thing they are made for, the love and union of the infinite as manifested in Jesus.

... :tu:

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#133    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:03 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 02 October 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

Like Arbitran, it makes me irritated. People claim that he existed, when we have nothing to base that claim off of other than stories in the bible.

I wonder what evidence of your existence would we have in year 4000? :w00t:

New testament is consider to be historical book according to many historians. We have evidence of his existence written by four people.
Because Greeks wrote myths then Greeks must been illusion?
Your view-which is not your since you probably didnt study life of Jesus-is view of Scientology churh. Jesus is history implant.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#134    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:08 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 16 October 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Jesus made a lot of claims, and yes most scholars believe that he existed, not all of them believers in God or Jesus by any means.  He claimed that we need to repent, that we need grace, that we are responsible for our lives and that in the end; we either become heaven by grace or hell by an act of self creation.  Yes I can see why people get upset by his name.  It has always been in our ball park; we failed, screwed up and still do.  Without grace, without the love of Jesus Christ we would be 'hell'.  I don't preach, I try to live the Gospel message, which is centered on Jesus Christ.  People can think what they want, believe what they want and react to the name of Jesus the way they want......we have that freedom.  For me the name of Jesus brings love to my heart and I worship him as my Lord and Savior.  I love the name of Jesus Christ and the very fact that people use his name so often in ways that are contemptuous says something about his reality.  I know that some hate the name of Jesus because of the failings of Christians, yet that is what they are, failings.  The message of Jesus is one of healing and salvation for all.  To reject that, again, is a free act and those who do will get what they desire, themselves for all eternity minus the very thing they are made for, the love and union of the infinite as manifested in Jesus.

Imagine all his pupils died claiming he was God. Not that he existed. Would you die for claiming that Im God if I was not?
They are convinced.
Also people talk here about Jesus and never read a Bible or live true Christian life...Thats hilarious.

One quote from Bible comes to my mind. By Jesus. "Ask and you shall be given. Would you give your child a snake if he was asking for a fish?" Thats my interpretation.

That is strong message. Would you teach you child Christianity if you were not sure that he was God? Tracing that tradition we come to 12 apostoles who all died claiming he was a God.

:tu:

Edited by the L, 16 October 2012 - 06:09 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#135    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:12 PM

Idea that Jesus is implant was proposed by scientology and similar sects.  Thats why would I put hareder criteria to become organized religion.
Scientology is based on BS. No message at all. Non senses.

Jesus existed. You all insult our ancestors by saying Jesus is invention.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."




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