Atheist Says Nonbelief is for the Wealthy

[ambelamba]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/12/26/atheist-says-challenging-religion-is-cruel-nonbelief-is-for-the-wealthy/

Well, to me it's more like nonbelief is for highly-educated.

Non-believers often overlook the fact that most of them (including me) have had access to the education and knowledge that the vast majority of mankind cannot reach. And many of the non-believers are born with rather unusual level of intelligence and cognitive functions. My psych diagnosed that I have hyper-analytical thinking process, and it made me throw away all the conventional beliefs and spirituality in the toilet.

Non-belief is not for everyone. Or, maybe it's for the minority of people who can handle the horrible truth.

[Ogbin]

1Corinthians 1:18-23 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness."

[+Liquid Gardens]

Non-belief is not for everyone. Or, maybe it's for the minority of people who can handle the horrible truth.

I don't think there's anything horrible about the idea there are no gods. It may disappoint believers if it turned out that was the case but I would hope ultimately that many believers are trying to determine the same thing I am, the truth, and I would think they would rather know a truth that is uncomfortable rather than continue to believe in a comforting fantasy.

[ambelamba]

1Corinthians 1:18-23 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness."

I bet the verses are malicious propaganda planted to stunt the advance of mankind.

[redhen]

I bet the verses are malicious propaganda planted to stunt the advance of mankind.

Instead of guessing, you should actually read the verses. That's what a hyper-analytical mind would do.

[ShadowSot]

For those who want to reply and are on a theistic bent, please read the linked blog before replying.

[libstaK]

I bet the verses are malicious propaganda planted to stunt the advance of mankind.

Even if there was maliciousness and propaganda involved - to suggest that the purpose was a conscious attempt to "stunt the advance of mankind"is a whole level of magical thinking in itself and unnecessarily inflamatory to boot.

I would be more inclined toward an inflated sense of righteousness on the part of the author if I had a criticism, on the basis that when people judge others on a "summary" basis the ego is usually involved.

[+Link of Hyrule]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/12/26/atheist-says-challenging-religion-is-cruel-nonbelief-is-for-the-wealthy/

Well, to me it's more like nonbelief is for highly-educated.

In Australia, only 25% of the adult population either have a university degree or are studying for a university degree. So it's an interesting statistic when noting that 75% of adults who regularly attend church either have a university degree or are studying for a university degree. Of course, this statistic don't account for those people who identify as Christian but don't attend church, but it's an interesting number, nonetheless.

There is merit in the observation that money plays a factor in belief. If you can look after yourself financially, the greater temptation to stop relying on God. It's an established fact of history that the importance of God as a whole to people increases when times are economically harsh, while it drops down the priority list when times are prosperous.

But this isn't new knowledge. It's ancient. Even Jesus declared that it was tough for the rich to enter the kingdom of God, and frankly I'd be gobsmacked if he was the first to have made this observation.

[DecoNoir]

Hm, this comes across as a well worded attempt at flame baiting, and a very unsubtle smack in the face of thiest. In regards to the final portion of the link: I'd say those who need to put down those who don't share their beliefs, or lack of, are a far greater stunt of mankind's growth.

[ambelamba]

Even if there was maliciousness and propaganda involved - to suggest that the purpose was a conscious attempt to "stunt the advance of mankind"is a whole level of magical thinking in itself and unnecessarily inflamatory to boot.

I would be more inclined toward an inflated sense of righteousness on the part of the author if I had a criticism, on the basis that when people judge others on a "summary" basis the ego is usually involved.

Well, I gotta admit that I've been gradually driven to the edge for last 4 decades and trying to assemble the pieces to make the big picture.

You know...even the rough outline looks incredibly ugly and sinister.

Maybe I am being too paranoid, but the history of early Christianity from the beginning to 4th century doesn't add up that well. Seems like a lot of things were destroyed and altered for some reason. The whole early church history is very inconsistent.

EDIT: And now I have trouble accepting the very concept of fluke, coincidence, and randomness anymore. I have a fear that every single element of Christianity is carefully and deliverately crafted for a certain agenda.

Edited December 27, 2013 by ambelamba

[libstaK]

Well, I gotta admit that I've been gradually driven to the edge for last 4 decades and trying to assemble the pieces to make the big picture.

You know...even the rough outline looks incredibly ugly and sinister.

Maybe I am being too paranoid, but the history of early Christianity from the beginning to 4th century doesn't add up that well. Seems like a lot of things were destroyed and altered for some reason. The whole early church history is very inconsistent.

EDIT: And now I have trouble accepting the very concept of fluke, coincidence, and randomness anymore. I have a fear that every single element of Christianity is carefully and deliverately crafted for a certain agenda.

Oh I have no doubt that personal agendas and seeking personal power and riches colour our history at every level. Humanity is insecure and fearful, moreso in the past than now, when brutal reality was much closer than now with our comfortable air-conditioned and heated abodes, supermarkets filled with tons of food and cheap warm clothing etc.

I'm a believer but I place what I read in the context of it's times and I question until I know - I do not know more than I can claim to know.

I do however, stop at any overriding deliberation on the part of historical players to subjugate humanity as a whole, I don't think they were as far thinking as all that and very few would be consciously "evil", I think most issues can be seen in terms of the more immediate material and emotional concerns of their lives along with their pride and wish for personal agrandisement for generations to come. Basically, I look to fear and ego when I try to discern the motivations of history.

[ambelamba]

Oh I have no doubt that personal agendas and seeking personal power and riches colour our history at every level. Humanity is insecure and fearful, moreso in the past than now, when brutal reality was much closer than now with our comfortable air-conditioned and heated abodes, supermarkets filled with tons of food and cheap warm clothing etc.

I'm a believer but I place what I read in the context of it's times and I question until I know - I do not know more than I can claim to know.

I do however, stop at any overriding deliberation on the part of historical players to subjugate humanity as a whole, I don't think they were as far thinking as all that and very few would be consciously "evil", I think most issues can be seen in terms of the more immediate material and emotional concerns of their lives along with their pride and wish for personal agrandisement for generations to come. Basically, I look to fear and ego when I try to discern the motivations of history.

Well, that's comforting. If everything is the result of deliberate planning then the best thing for mankind is to shatter the planet with an anti-matter weapon and destroy any outbound flight to ensure absolutely no one escapes.

[libstaK]

Well, that's comforting. If everything is the result of deliberate planning then the best thing for mankind is to shatter the planet with an anti-matter weapon and destroy any outbound flight to ensure absolutely no one escapes.

Lol,

If we did that ... we would kill any hope of humanity ever evolving beyond petty concerns, even if it was all the result of some nefarious "master plan". I think you need to change your half empty glass for one that is half full, cynicism is synonymous with self defeat.

[redhen]

Well, to me it's more like nonbelief is for highly-educated.

There are many highly educated theists. Francis Collins, former head of the Human Genone Project is very outspoken about his faith. Father George Coyne, head of the Vatican observatory has been interviewed by Dawkins and Bill Maher. Father George Lemaitre, creator of the Big Bang theory, is another example off the top of my head.

Bishop Robert Grosseteste, invented the Scientific Method in the 13th century. There is a long tradition of Christian, esp. Roman Catholic intellectualism.

The claim that believers are knuckle dragging, credulous, superstitious idiots is simply not the case.

Edited December 27, 2013 by redhen

[ambelamba]

I remember an episode of South Park. Eric Cartman uses some bizarre and somewhat terrifying reasoning to rationalize his actions in that one.

That reminds of God himself.

[ambelamba]

Sorry for derailing the subject even more. But I started suspecting that the group of people who were responsible for creating Christianity as we know it knew something about human nature and decided to exploit it in a really nefarious way...

[Rlyeh]

1Corinthians 1:18-23 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness."

I guess preaching ignorance does destroy wisdom and create foolishness.

[ambelamba]

I guess preaching ignorance does destroy wisdom and create foolishness.

Actually I couldn't bear reading the passages because of my intense hatred toward Paul and anything related to that SOB.

Anyway, I just hope I can stop chasing down the rabbit hole. I just want a normal life with acceptable amount of worries. Maybe some passive incomes and a bit of hanky panky here and there to be compensated for all the agony and sufferings... But I'd eventually settle down if the circumstance ever allows me.

[Davros of Skaro]

Glycon is my Lord, and Savior.

Anyone who says that Glycon was just a Snake stuffed in a Puppet head with a tube for someone hidden to speak thru to make Glycon talk will roast in Hades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycon

[ShadowSot]

Alright, now that I have a bit more sit down time...

I'm flatly confused. I'm an atheist, I live in a trailer in the South and work a job that just barely makes ends meet.

I am also a founding board member of a Humanist non-profit/charity. So it definitely does not requires either a high state oof living or a degree in order to do.

I have organized events to help the homeless, and I've found a few things. One, yes many people who are homeless are also religious, not all though. I don't know what the breakdown might be, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's much different than the general population as a whole.

Second, if I were to look at philosophies that judge the poor, I look more to the Christian side.

Yes, there are many good Christian charities to help the poor without judgement, don't get me wrong. And they take the brunt of it since the "faith based initiative" started.

However, I've found that there are a number of people who put the blame of the person's situation on the person. Atheists on the whole tend to do a better joob keeping in mind that there is more to it than just the person.

[Mr Walker]

http://www.patheos.c...or-the-wealthy/

Well, to me it's more like nonbelief is for highly-educated.

Non-believers often overlook the fact that most of them (including me) have had access to the education and knowledge that the vast majority of mankind cannot reach. And many of the non-believers are born with rather unusual level of intelligence and cognitive functions. My psych diagnosed that I have hyper-analytical thinking process, and it made me throw away all the conventional beliefs and spirituality in the toilet.

Non-belief is not for everyone. Or, maybe it's for the minority of people who can handle the horrible truth.

In Australia the wealthier you are, and the better educated you are, the more likely you are to be religious. But religion has a different social status and position in AUstralia.

Also the most successful schools are religious based and so the richest and most powerful people often send their kids to religious based schools perpetuating the cycle. Again, I think it comes back to the form of religiousity. Few australians would believe in creationism, but hey do see the importance of church and religion in socio economic well being, and in a partnership with government to provide individual and social well being and benefits. Churches from many denominations, including many non Christian religions run schools, universities, nursing homes, hospitals, and even employment agencies in Australia, all in partnership with state and federal governments who contribute to their funding and, in return, have a close regulatory control over the institutions.

In one respect you are right. Up to a point wealth buys good health, a roof over your head, adequate food etc. If you have all these things you might see less need for religion and religious based comfort. But then, in the end, many people realise that their lives are empty, despite being filled with material riches, and come back to a more spiritual -based life, which brings them peace, joy and contentment.

[Mr Walker]

I don't think there's anything horrible about the idea there are no gods. It may disappoint believers if it turned out that was the case but I would hope ultimately that many believers are trying to determine the same thing I am, the truth, and I would think they would rather know a truth that is uncomfortable rather than continue to believe in a comforting fantasy.

And how does one determine what is true when studying religious or philosophical beliefs ? It can't be done using an evidence- based scientific method, and unless one has personal experience with some form of the divine one cannot KNOW a truth without evidence.

[ShadowSot]

Except of course for all those people who find peace joy and contentment without any sort of religion or spiritual beliefs.

[Mr Walker]

Alright, now that I have a bit more sit down time...

I'm flatly confused. I'm an atheist, I live in a trailer in the South and work a job that just barely makes ends meet.

I am also a founding board member of a Humanist non-profit/charity. So it definitely does not requires either a high state oof living or a degree in order to do.

I have organized events to help the homeless, and I've found a few things. One, yes many people who are homeless are also religious, not all though. I don't know what the breakdown might be, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's much different than the general population as a whole.

Second, if I were to look at philosophies that judge the poor, I look more to the Christian side.

Yes, there are many good Christian charities to help the poor without judgement, don't get me wrong. And they take the brunt of it since the "faith based initiative" started.

However, I've found that there are a number of people who put the blame of the person's situation on the person. Atheists on the whole tend to do a better joob keeping in mind that there is more to it than just the person.

Is this a christian /non Christian division? I think it might depend more on how a person was brought up.

In general I was taught to be self sufficient work hard for my pay, ( I had paid jobs both part and full time from the age of 8 or nine and was earning an adult man's wage during12 weeks of the year in school holidays by the time I was 13 while still continuing to study for a scholarship to put me through university )get an education to improve my chances in life and not to waste money on unnecessary things but to save for a rainy day. My parents both knew true poverty during the great depression and growing up in the 1950s we knew a poverty that no one today really has to go through. So I tend to think that people get back what they put into life. However, I appreciate that some people have various illnesses which prevent the from being independent, and these people require the assistance of society. It is best when this is provided via govt., through taxation and redistribution of wealth, but it can also be done by loving caring people either believers or not. I do judge people if they deserve judging but I would still try to help them.

[Mr Walker]

Except of course for all those people who find peace joy and contentment without any sort of religion or spiritual beliefs.

Australia is one of the wealthiest and most socially equal countries in the world yet the greatest killer of people (particularly men) under 40 is suicide depression and low self esteem hurt many and mental health is a huge issue Alcohol and drugs are used to cover all sorts of problems from lack of purpose in life, to low self esteem to loneliness, and isolation and a lack of being loved.

I mix with a large number of people from a wide range of backgrounds, including multi millionaires to the homeless. we have provided short and long tern shelter to many homeless over the last 40 years. While the following observation is anecdotal, and observational it is also backed up by the observatins of other professionals including a number of g.p.s. I mix with more Christians than some but also with very fixed atheists.

My observation is that, in general, spiritual belief of any form brings far greater contentment, happiness, good health and well being, than materialistic atheism. However secular humanist athiests also can have the benefit of belief at a philosophical level. in the human spirit and the need to improve humanity. This seems to fulfil many of their basic human needs as a religious belief helps believers.