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US servicewomen challenge combat role ban


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#46    Corp

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 30 November 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

And Americans don't treat sex the way that other nations do. In France and Germany you'll find topless ads in the newspapers.

When it comes to sex Americans and Canadians have very similar moral viewpoints. Women has been serving in combat roles in the Canadian military for decades. So again I don't see it being any problem at all.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#47    DieChecker

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:51 PM

View PostRender, on 03 December 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

No you don't ... Jesus.. what is it with you Americans thinking Europe is showing naked ppl everywhere. Americans show far more sexually graphic images everywhere than Europeans.
In America you could have half naked billboards on busses and every streetcorner. That's not the case in Europe. Get your facts straight.
Huh? I lived there for 2 years in the 90s. In Germany. I read the daily paper quite often, with German friends to tell me what some things meant, and there were Definately topless women in the newspapers. 100% true. If this is not true anymore, that could be since it has been almost 20 years and maybe Germans are more prudish then there were in 1994.

There certainly are lots of scantily clad women on billboards in the US. But, no nipples are showing, unlike in many places in Europe.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#48    DieChecker

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:58 PM

View PostRender, on 03 December 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

From the article:

So all the ppl using arguments that it's impossible for women and that men start to act like beasts on viagra should review their opinions since it's already a reality, but it's unofficial.

I thought I read that rapes in US units sent to Afghanistan and Iraq had been on the increase.

1/3rd of women in military get raped.

The Pentagon Is Camouflaging the Truth About Rape in the Military

Quote

The 2011 report validates our worst fears. The data shows that the military's handling of sexual assaults is getting worse, much worse. Charges, courts-martial and convictions plummeted, but there is absolutely no indication that sex crimes decreased.

Quote

Without fundamental reform this problem will only get worse. Perpetrators know they stand little chance their crime will even be reported. And, in the unlikely event it is reported, there is very little chance they will suffer any meaningful consequence.

So here we have a military with a sex crime problem, and what is to be done?? Why send more women out with those poor overstressed, overworked, undersexed teenage men.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#49    DieChecker

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 03 December 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Huh? I lived there for 2 years in the 90s. In Germany. I read the daily paper quite often, with German friends to tell me what some things meant, and there were Definately topless women in the newspapers. 100% true. If this is not true anymore, that could be since it has been almost 20 years and maybe Germans are more prudish then there were in 1994.

There certainly are lots of scantily clad women on billboards in the US. But, no nipples are showing, unlike in many places in Europe.
Oh, looks like you are right...
As of March 2012...
At least with this one newpaper. Quite probably there are other papers that still do publish nude/topless advertisements.

Germany's Biggest Selling Newspaper Will No Longer Feature Topless Women On Its Front Page


http://www.businessi...ont-page-2012-3

Germany's biggest-selling newspaper scraps photos of topless women
http://www.foxnews.c...-topless-women/

Quote


Bild added that there will continue to be "sexy" photographs in the newspaper, however they would be "more modern, better packaged.



Sorry lads, she's moved to page 3! German newspaper bans topless models from front page after International Woman's Day


http://www.dailymail...Womans-Day.html

Quote

More than 5,000 woman have bared their breasts in the newspaper since 1984.


Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#50    DieChecker

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:20 PM

View PostCorp, on 03 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

When it comes to sex Americans and Canadians have very similar moral viewpoints. Women has been serving in combat roles in the Canadian military for decades. So again I don't see it being any problem at all.
And how many units with front line women are stationed in war zones?

From what I'ver read the numbers are in the hundreds, where the US sends troops into dangerous situations in the hundreds of thousands. So it would seem logical that the US would have many, many more cases where sex became an issue, due to stress and combat conditions.
http://en.wikipedia....eeping_Missions

Not knocking on the Canadian military, just saying that the Canadian Gov does not send its units out into stress as willingly or in the numbers that the US does.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#51    OverSword

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:57 PM

View PostCorp, on 03 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

When it comes to sex Americans and Canadians have very similar moral viewpoints. Women has been serving in combat roles in the Canadian military for decades. So again I don't see it being any problem at all.
And Canadian women have fought in how many wars in the last few decades?

One advantage of having women in the service:
Posted Image


#52    Render

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 03 December 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Oh, looks like you are right...
As of March 2012...
At least with this one newpaper. Quite probably there are other papers that still do publish nude/topless advertisements.

Germany's Biggest Selling Newspaper Will No Longer Feature Topless Women On Its Front Page


http://www.businessi...ont-page-2012-3

Germany's biggest-selling newspaper scraps photos of topless women
http://www.foxnews.c...-topless-women/




Sorry lads, she's moved to page 3! German newspaper bans topless models from front page after International Woman's Day


http://www.dailymail...Womans-Day.html



Please, Bild isn't a newspaper it's a gossipy tabloid.
It's like me going to America and buying a Playboy and then saying "my, America has very sexually graphic newspapers".


If anything, Europeans treat nudity in a more natural manner. Americans treat it in a more exploitative manner.

Edited by Render, 04 December 2012 - 10:50 AM.


#53    Render

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:48 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 03 December 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

I thought I read that rapes in US units sent to Afghanistan and Iraq had been on the increase.

So here we have a military with a sex crime problem, and what is to be done?? Why send more women out with those poor overstressed, overworked, undersexed teenage men.

What a terrible way to look at the world.

So what? Do you want those overstressed pathetic losers to dictate how local and american women should dress too? You know, so they don't tempt men too much to commit the horrible crime of raping a woman.
Because apparantly the American army is full of uncontrollable rapers and we have to shape the world around deviants like that.


How dare you put the blame in womens shoes.

Edited by Render, 04 December 2012 - 10:49 AM.


#54    Corp

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 03 December 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

And how many units with front line women are stationed in war zones?

From what I'ver read the numbers are in the hundreds, where the US sends troops into dangerous situations in the hundreds of thousands. So it would seem logical that the US would have many, many more cases where sex became an issue, due to stress and combat conditions.
http://en.wikipedia....eeping_Missions

Not knocking on the Canadian military, just saying that the Canadian Gov does not send its units out into stress as willingly or in the numbers that the US does.

I find it highly unlikely that the US military is going to turn around and deploy hundreds of thousands of female soldiers on heavy combat missions. I'd be very surprised if there were hundreds of thousands of female soldiers with the proper training to be deployed. If women are allowed to serve in combat units it's going to be a long time before they're in that role in any kind of numbers. There's going to be a long process to phase it in to ensure that everyone gets the proper training and to ensure that such a set up can work.


View PostOverSword, on 03 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

And Canadian women have fought in how many wars in the last few decades?

One of our combat deaths in Afghanistan was a woman. So women are on the front lines and our military has suffered no ill effects as a result.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#55    Stellar

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:28 PM

View PostOverSword, on 29 November 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Good.  I'm glad you feel justified and fulfilled in what you chose to do.  I hope you also felt it was necessary.


And if you believe that you going to the mid-east made it possible for me to drive, vote, work, etc...I was doing all of that before you went to war and likely before you were born. You weren't fight Hitler or Hiorohito.

You do understand that some of the soldiers that fought Hitler and Hirohito were in the military long prior to the start of WWII, right? Same thing for many of the soldiers that fought in Afghanistan and Iraq. They joined the military prior to 9/11. Do you despise them also?

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#56    Stellar

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

Quote

And Canadian women have fought in how many wars in the last few decades?

Excuse me? They've fought on the front lines in more wars than US women.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

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#57    DieChecker

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:33 PM

View PostRender, on 04 December 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

What a terrible way to look at the world.

So what? Do you want those overstressed pathetic losers to dictate how local and american women should dress too? You know, so they don't tempt men too much to commit the horrible crime of raping a woman.
Because apparantly the American army is full of uncontrollable rapers and we have to shape the world around deviants like that.

How dare you put the blame in womens shoes.
In any situation where lots of young men, and only a few women, are put under tremendous stress and kept away from any other public activities for weeks or months at a time... Yes, I'd require some kind of dress code and code of conduct.

I'm not blaming women, if anything, I'm saying that there are not enough controls on the men. In any situation where young people get together there is going to need to be controls, and in military combat situations those rules need to go even further.

Did you see the article that said 1/3rd of all military women had been raped?

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#58    DieChecker

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:36 PM

View PostCorp, on 04 December 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

I find it highly unlikely that the US military is going to turn around and deploy hundreds of thousands of female soldiers on heavy combat missions. I'd be very surprised if there were hundreds of thousands of female soldiers with the proper training to be deployed. If women are allowed to serve in combat units it's going to be a long time before they're in that role in any kind of numbers. There's going to be a long process to phase it in to ensure that everyone gets the proper training and to ensure that such a set up can work.

Well, sure...

And if you go back to my first post in this thread, you'll see that I am not against this process. I only think that US soldiers need better training and experience in how to operate with men and women in combat, because right now it would be a total failure. Right now, if it was Forced to happen, for political reasons, or for the sake of political correctness, then it would be a monsterous failure.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker




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