187 replies to this topic

[Shabd Mystic]

joc, on 02 October 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

Pfff...I wouldn't make that bet... I mean, seriously, if someone said that there is nothing to be gotten from Moby Dick except a bunch of stupid stories and ridiculous tales of fishermen and whale killers...would you make the same bet that they had actually read Moby Dick?   Call me Ishamel but...I don't think so.

So you are saying one should get the same from Revelation that they get from any great work of fiction?

[Shabd Mystic]

joc, on 02 October 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

K
Back to the topic...if there still is one...
...Here is some injected Reality into the thread which I find very interesting...This isn't skeptical mish-mash...this is fact:  Many Jews are waiting for the Messiah.  Many Christians are waiting for the Messiah...second coming.  And many Muslims are waiting for the Messiah...the Mahdi.  Everyone is waiting for the Messiah it seems to come and save the world from itself.  The world therefore is ripe for some sort of polarizing figure that can bring everyone together, willing or not...and create 'peace' in a world of bloodshed and doom.  Whether Revelations is true or not becomes irrelevant because it very well may be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Here is something else that is interesting: There are other groups who believe they have already met the Messiah and that Christians, Jews and Muslims wouldn't recognize Him if He was standing right in front of them.  

[joc]

Shabd Mystic, on 02 October 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

Here is something else that is interesting: There are other groups who believe they have already met the Messiah and that Christians, Jews and Muslims wouldn't recognize Him if He was standing right in front of them.  

That isn't really interesting...and it has nothing to do with the discussion...now does it?

[joc]

Shabd Mystic, on 02 October 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

So you are saying one should get the same from Revelation that they get from any great work of fiction?

From any great work!   Suffice to say that some of us can find inspiration and wisdom/truth on the back of a cardboard box of cereal.  I personally find 1984 considerably more chilling than Revelations.

[Shabd Mystic]

joc, on 02 October 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

That isn't really interesting...and it has nothing to do with the discussion...now does it?

It has nothing to do with the discussion? You were the one who brought it up. Did you forget your medicine?

[Shabd Mystic]

joc, on 02 October 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

From any great work!   Suffice to say that some of us can find inspiration and wisdom/truth on the back of a cardboard box of cereal.  I personally find 1984 considerably more chilling than Revelations.

"That isn't really interesting...and it has nothing to do with the discussion...now does it?"

[joc]

By and far, Revelations mirrors the writings of Daniel more than anything else, and I would think the author was definitely influenced by the writings of Daniel.  The parrallels to Revelations and today are many.  But again...I will not bow down to anyone or anything...they'll have to kill me first!  That being said, one of the warnings was...all who take up the sword must die by the sword...so be it.

[Shabd Mystic]

joc, on 03 October 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

By and far, Revelations mirrors the writings of Daniel more than anything else, and I would think the author was definitely influenced by the writings of Daniel.  The parrallels to Revelations and today are many.  But again...I will not bow down to anyone or anything...they'll have to kill me first!  That being said, one of the warnings was...all who take up the sword must die by the sword...so be it.

"Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword."  Matthew 26:52

Jesus was once again explaining the "law of karma" just like the Bible spells it out so many times such as "As ye sow, so shall ye reap" and "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." But Christians dropped the idea of reincarnation around the 3rd or 4th century so there are few Christians alive who even realize what Jesus was saying.

They all know that "all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword" is wrong because so many have taken up the sword and lived a fine life afterwards. So either Jesus was lying, or He was speaking about something else (that the church determines) or He was talking about what will happen in a future lifetime.

But, of course that can't be true because the Christian Church would have a hard time surviving if Christians came to believe they would get another shot at all this.  

Edited by Shabd Mystic, 03 October 2012 - 03:54 AM.

[joc]

Shabd Mystic, on 03 October 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

"Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword."  Matthew 26:52

Jesus was once again explaining the "law of karma" just like the Bible spells it out so many times such as "As ye sow, so shall ye reap" and "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." But Christians dropped the idea of reincarnation around the 3rd or 4th century so there are few Christians alive who even realize what Jesus was saying.

They all know that "all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword" is wrong because so many have taken up the sword and lived a fine life afterwards. So either Jesus was lying, or He was speaking about something else (that the church determines) or He was talking about what will happen in a future lifetime.

But, of course that can't be true because the Christian Church would have a hard time surviving if Christians came to believe they would get another shot at all this.  

"He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." Rev. 13:10
Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Reincarnationists...all have one thing in common...they all believe they are right and everyone else is wrong.
I don't think any of them are right...no one can possibly know...so there you go.

[Shabd Mystic]

joc, on 03 October 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

"He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." Rev. 13:10
Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Reincarnationists...all have one thing in common...they all believe they are right and everyone else is wrong.
I don't think any of them are right...no one can possibly know...so there you go.

Sorry to say but you couldn't possibly be more wrong. Christians, Muslims and Jews thrive on "beliefs." So do people like you who "believe" "no one can possibly know." Throughout history there have been incalcuable mystics who have actually gone to where the Christians, Muslims and Jews only see in their imagination and they experience God firsthand and in ways that are more "real" than anything you have ever experienced.

But it's much more fun to come to online message boards and to portray yourself as incredibly wise than to ever take the steps that wll give you true Wisdom.

[joc]

Quote

Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Reincarnationists...all have one thing in common...they all believe they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Shabd Mystic, on 03 October 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

Sorry to say but you couldn't possibly be more wrong. Christians, Muslims and Jews thrive on "beliefs." So do people like you who "believe" "no one can possibly know." Throughout history there have been incalcuable mystics who have actually gone to where the Christians, Muslims and Jews only see in their imagination and they experience God firsthand and in ways that are more "real" than anything you have ever experienced.

But it's much more fun to come to online message boards and to portray yourself as incredibly wise than to ever take the steps that wll give you true Wisdom.

I rest my case.

[Shabd Mystic]

joc, on 03 October 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

I rest my case.

Might be the only smart thing you have said here.

[joc]

Shabd Mystic, on 03 October 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Might be the only smart thing you have said here.

There are things knowable...and things unknowable.  Logic is based on the 'knowable'.  Belief is based on the 'unknowable'.  What happens after death is 'unknowable'.  If one claims to know then they are acting under belief not logic.  One's belief is one's belief...but they all have one thing in common...I hate to be reduntant...but when one 'believes' something...it requires an equal amount of 'disbelief' of something else...hence...the 'I am right and everyone else is wrong' mindset.
You claim to know the unknowable.  I claim to know that logic dictates that it isn't possible for one to know.

Quote

Christians, Muslims and Jews thrive on "beliefs." So do people like you who "believe" "no one can possibly know." Throughout history there have been incalcuable mystics who have actually gone to where the Christians, Muslims and Jews only see in their imagination and they experience God firsthand and in ways that are more "real" than anything you have ever experienced.

How could you possibly know what I have experienced?

Edited by joc, 04 October 2012 - 12:16 PM.

[Shabd Mystic]

joc, on 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

There are things knowable...and things unknowable.

Says one who doesn't "know."

joc, on 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

  What happens after death is 'unknowable'.

Wrong again. In the Bible Paul said "I die daily." Do you think that meant something other than what it clearly says?

joc, on 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

If one claims to know then they are acting under belief not logic.

And we are batting 1.000. Wrong yet again.

joc, on 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

If one claims to know then they are acting under belief not logic.

Boy, you are good at this. Wrong again.

joc, on 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

I hate to be reduntant...

Then stop spouting off as an expert on a subject on which ou are completely clueless.

joc, on 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

You claim to know the unknowable.

It is only unknowable to one who hasn't experienced it..

joc, on 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

I claim to know that logic dictates that it isn't possible for one to know.

Many brilliant people from my parent's and grandparent's generation thought the same thing about what it felt like to walk on the moon. Neil Armstrong knew what to them was "unknowable." Everything was unknowable until the day came when it was finally known by someone. But on this subject you will never become one of them because you would rather pose as an annonymous know-it-all on an obxcure Internet message board than to actually "explore" the subject you falsely claim to understand.

joc, on 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

How could you possibly know what I have experienced?

It couldn't possibly be any more clear from your statements. You just wasted dozens of words claiming siomething is "unknowable" that anyone who has experienced knows fully well is very knowable. And I'm not talking about in your imagination. I am talking as real as Neil Armstrong "knew" what he eventually knew about the moon. It has been knowable by many people throughout history, many who were very famous. And it's knowable, and known by many who are living now.

But it's much more fun to play the Internet know-it-all, isn't it?  

[joc]

Shabd Mystic, on 04 October 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Says one who doesn't "know."




Wrong again. In the Bible Paul said "I die daily." Do you think that meant something other than what it clearly says?




And we are batting 1.000. Wrong yet again.




Boy, you are good at this. Wrong again.




Then stop spouting off as an expert on a subject on which ou are completely clueless.




It is only unknowable to one who hasn't experienced it..




Many brilliant people from my parent's and grandparent's generation thought the same thing about what it felt like to walk on the moon. Neil Armstrong knew what to them was "unknowable." Everything was unknowable until the day came when it was finally known by someone. But on this subject you will never become one of them because you would rather pose as an annonymous know-it-all on an obxcure Internet message board than to actually "explore" the subject you falsely claim to understand.




It couldn't possibly be any more clear from your statements. You just wasted dozens of words claiming siomething is "unknowable" that anyone who has experienced knows fully well is very knowable. And I'm not talking about in your imagination. I am talking as real as Neil Armstrong "knew" what he eventually knew about the moon. It has been knowable by many people throughout history, many who were very famous. And it's knowable, and known by many who are living now.

But it's much more fun to play the Internet know-it-all, isn't it?  

There isn't much point in continuing this dialogue...perhaps you and many others have physically died...body in rigormortis...no blood flowing through the veins...no electrical impulses in the brain...and then have come back with knowledge of the hereafter.  But I think not.  And saying that you know what is after death makes you the 'know-it all' not me.  So, I will just leave it at that.