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Hobbits of North Caucasus

hobbit dolmen pyramid black sea

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#31    Abramelin

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:18 AM

LOL Look, they made a documentary about these Gogs !!

At 2:20 in the video they invented the dolmen!!



Edited by Abramelin, 30 May 2012 - 09:18 AM.


#32    Apopo

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:25 AM

I think they might be where the ancient people used to cremate bodies and put the ashes inside, since they might be stuffed in with bare hands. Maybe traps to get small animals also?

"A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees"

#33    Abramelin

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:04 PM

The dolmens have a limited variety in their architecture. The floor plans are square, trapezoidal, rectangular and round. All of the dolmens are punctuated with a portal in the centre of the facade. While round portholes are the most common, square ones are also found. In front of the facade is a court that usually splays out, creating an area where rituals possibly took place. The court is usually outlined by large stone walls, sometimes over a meter high, which enclose the court. It is in this area that Bronze and Iron Age pottery has been found - which helped date these tombs -, along with human remains, bronze tools and silver, gold and semi-precious stone ornaments.

The repertoire of decoration for these tombs is not great. Vertical and horizontal zigzags, hanging triangles and concentric circles are the most common motifs. One decorative motif that is quite common is found across the top of the porthole slab. It can best be described as a lintel held up by two columns. Pairs of breasts, done in relief, have also been found on a few tombs. These breasts usually appear above the two columns of the porthole decoration. Perhaps related to these are the stone plugs, which were used to block the porthole, and are found with almost every tomb. They are sometimes phallic-shaped.

Some unusual items associated with dolmens are big round stone balls, double balls and animal sculptures.

http://en.wikipedia...._North_Caucasus



This is from the pdf Swede posted:


Western Caucasian Dolmens
Mysticism, Scientific Opinions,
and Perspectives on Further Study


From page 72:

I am not going to create obstacles for spiritual pilgrimages to the dolmens: faith
is too multifaceted. However, I agree with my colleague V.A. Trifonov, who, while
talking to a reporter, shared his apprehensions that followers of the “contemporary
religious and mystical movement,” with their good intentions to “clear trash from
the dolmens,” would instead clear “the last remains of the ancient cultural stratum”
from the dolmens. The sensational “discoveries” of these enthusiasts about
the dolmens’ purpose as “ultrasonic weapons of ancient people or launching platforms
for UFOs” could greatly jeopardize scientific research on these ancient structures
(Vil’de 1998; Grigor’ev 1998).


Comparisons between views of mystical followers and practicing archeologists
could be summarized in ancient Eastern wisdom, quoted from the mystics themselves:
“Truth and fiction are like oil and water: they never mix” (Spiral’ poznaniia
1992, p. 367).


http://www.circassia...ns_Markovin.pdf


And a reminder: this is the site -L- mentioned in the OP, but translated into English (or, it is an English site about these same Russian dolmen):

The Ancients
The Case for Hobbits

Hobbit Homes
Caucasian Dolmens


http://www.theliving...an_Dolmens.html


#34    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:04 PM

All I found about Soivet Hobits is this: http://www.retronaut...-soviet-hobbit/
^_^
Btw one of my fav. sites to relax.

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#35    Time Spy

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:47 AM

View Postlilthor, on 30 May 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

These dolmens do not look like living space for any human, small or otherwise.

I wonder if they have more to do with hunting large game animals like bear.

Those holes look large enough for a bear's head but not his shoulders.  Some rancid meat placed inside the dolmen would certainly cause a passing bear to shove his head inside for a look while he is then attacked from behind.  Someone would even be safe to operate a snare or net from inside the dolmen.

That's an interesting speculation Lilthor.  I would assume that children could fit inside these structures, and probably many adults as well.  This would definitely serve purpose as protection FROM a bear or large predator as well, like a shelter house.  Wasn't there evidence of an air hole at the top, so to permit a fire to be made inside?


#36    lilthor

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:54 PM

View PostTime Spy, on 31 May 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

That's an interesting speculation Lilthor.  I would assume that children could fit inside these structures, and probably many adults as well.  This would definitely serve purpose as protection FROM a bear or large predator as well, like a shelter house.  Wasn't there evidence of an air hole at the top, so to permit a fire to be made inside?

Yes, these structures look utilitarian rather than religious or symbolic.  Food would be the chief concern of any society and, considering the location of these dolmens relative to the Caucasus and Black Sea, large game would have been plentiful in the area.  I can imagine these dolmens would have had a high 'occupancy' by hunters in late summer and fall as the need for winter food supplies approached.  What better way to get close enough to dangerous prey to easily kill it while remaining safe?

Even better, many of these dolmens still look perfectly suited for such a use even after sitting there for 5000 years.  How's that for good design?


#37    lightly

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:51 AM

I'd be curious to find out how many  dolmen , still standing, are orientated to solar or lunar positions.   I don't think they would be useful housing, and I don't know why I doubt the popular idea of their use as tombs.  I'm tempted to think of them as some sort of shrines.   They were obviously very important to those who constructed them for such a long time and over such widespread areas .

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#38    Abramelin

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:50 AM

View Postlilthor, on 31 May 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Yes, these structures look utilitarian rather than religious or symbolic.  Food would be the chief concern of any society and, considering the location of these dolmens relative to the Caucasus and Black Sea, large game would have been plentiful in the area.  I can imagine these dolmens would have had a high 'occupancy' by hunters in late summer and fall as the need for winter food supplies approached.  What better way to get close enough to dangerous prey to easily kill it while remaining safe?

Even better, many of these dolmens still look perfectly suited for such a use even after sitting there for 5000 years.  How's that for good design?

So you seriously think this...

Attached File  Zhane Valley.jpg   74.94K   12 downloads


.... is some sort of trap.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 01 June 2012 - 03:51 AM.


#39    Time Spy

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:17 AM

View Postlilthor, on 31 May 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Yes, these structures look utilitarian rather than religious or symbolic.  Food would be the chief concern of any society and, considering the location of these dolmens relative to the Caucasus and Black Sea, large game would have been plentiful in the area.  I can imagine these dolmens would have had a high 'occupancy' by hunters in late summer and fall as the need for winter food supplies approached.  What better way to get close enough to dangerous prey to easily kill it while remaining safe?

Even better, many of these dolmens still look perfectly suited for such a use even after sitting there for 5000 years.  How's that for good design?


That's an excellent point, and I believe you are correct that they were used to trap for food and even store food.  However I must admit that this is not what I believe to be the intended use of construction.

Let me explain.  Many thousands of years ago in an era before the changing of the global rotation (day) and orbital alignment (year) mankind experienced time and the elements in an altered ego system from that which we see today.  It is my opinion that in this time mankind forged tools with bronze and iron in these very 'dolmens'...

This is my proof, whether or not acceptable...

Genesis 4:10  (Right after Abel was murdered, and before the Great Flood)

The Lord said, "What have you done? Listen?  Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.  Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.  When you work the ground it will no longer yield its crops for you.  You will be a restless wanderer on the earth".  Cain said to the Lord, "My punishment is more than I can bear.  Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me".  But the Lord said to him, "Not so, if anyone kills Cain he will suffer vengeance seven times over."  Then the Lord put a mark on Cain, so that no one who found him would kill him.  So Cain went out from the Lord's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.  Cain lay with his wife and she became pregnant, and gave birth to Enoch.  Cain was then builing a CITY and he named it after his son Enoch.  To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.  Lamech married two women, one named Adah, and the other Zilah.  Adah gave birth to Jabal.  He was the father of those who lived in tents and raised livestock.  His brother's name was Jubal.  He was the father of all who played the Harp and flute.  Zilah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze AND IRON...


#40    Abramelin

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:23 AM

This is a forum about history.

Please leave religious crap out of it, or else I will start quoting from Tolkien.


#41    DKO

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:28 AM

View PostTime Spy, on 01 June 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

That's an excellent point, and I believe you are correct that they were used to trap for food and even store food.  However I must admit that this is not what I believe to be the intended use of construction.

Let me explain.  Many thousands of years ago in an era before the changing of the global rotation (day) and orbital alignment (year) mankind experienced time and the elements in an altered ego system from that which we see today.  It is my opinion that in this time mankind forged tools with bronze and iron in these very 'dolmens'...

This is my proof, whether or not acceptable...

Genesis 4:10  (Right after Abel was murdered, and before the Great Flood)

The Lord said, "What have you done? Listen?  Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.  Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.  When you work the ground it will no longer yield its crops for you.  You will be a restless wanderer on the earth".  Cain said to the Lord, "My punishment is more than I can bear.  Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me".  But the Lord said to him, "Not so, if anyone kills Cain he will suffer vengeance seven times over."  Then the Lord put a mark on Cain, so that no one who found him would kill him.  So Cain went out from the Lord's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.  Cain lay with his wife and she became pregnant, and gave birth to Enoch.  Cain was then builing a CITY and he named it after his son Enoch.  To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.  Lamech married two women, one named Adah, and the other Zilah.  Adah gave birth to Jabal.  He was the father of those who lived in tents and raised livestock.  His brother's name was Jubal.  He was the father of all who played the Harp and flute.  Zilah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze AND IRON...

I've noticed from a lot of your posts that you use biblical information to prove a point. Since biblical 'facts' are hugely debated and not really facts then they have no real point in these topics. In another thread about Ancient Egyptian races you used something about Noah's Ark to prove a point. Lets just keep it to known facts.

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#42    lilthor

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:01 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 01 June 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:

So you seriously think this...

Attachment Zhane Valley.jpg


.... is some sort of trap.


.

Those look like two very ancient dolmens, one of which having a more recent addition (with repairs).  And yes, trap may well be an apt description of the original 'strong boxes' purpose.  Interesting that those 2 original dolmens have needed no such repairs, being so stout.

Nice photo.

Edited by lilthor, 01 June 2012 - 05:01 AM.


#43    lilthor

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:34 AM

View PostTime Spy, on 01 June 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

...mankind experienced time and the elements in an altered ego system from that which we see today.

Yeah...I used to do that kind of stuff, but not so much anymore.


#44    NatureBoff

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:34 AM

Interesting photos there. Thanks for posting. They'd be the perfect hiding place for the hairy cryptid types which populate the whole world it seems. My guess is that they were built by humans as marks of respect for the cryptids and left for them to occupy if they so wished.

The object, known by the locals as "Bicho Voador" (Flying Animal), or "Bicho Sugador" (Sucking Animal), has the shape of a rounded ship and attacks people in isolation.

#45    Abramelin

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:54 AM

View Postlilthor, on 01 June 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

Those look like two very ancient dolmens, one of which having a more recent addition (with repairs).  And yes, trap may well be an apt description of the original 'strong boxes' purpose.  Interesting that those 2 original dolmens have needed no such repairs, being so stout.

Nice photo.


Here is some more info on what those dolmens could have been used for:



Typically, the entrance of a Caucasian dolmen is always at the south-side (as with the Dutch Hunebeds).

==

(and a legend:)

'Adygei legend says that once upon a time there were giants in the Caucasus. they were kind and strong creatures, and as it often happens, there were small and spiteful people near them. they were sharp, cunning, whining and artful people who were driven away by their former neighbours for their meanness and treachery. the giants gave refuge and a part of their lands to them. They were so kind that they made stone houses for their guests and they carried them on their shoulders to the most beautiful and dry places, to the banks of rivers and lakes. Instead of doors they breached round holes through which little people went hunting on lop-eared hares. However the giants were repaid for their kindness. In order to tame the giants the little people blinded them and began to give them different herbs and because of it, the giants began to lose their minds and conflict with each other. Once the giants freed themselves from charms a war began, resulting in everyone's death with just the stone houses remaining'.

==

The Kolikho Disc:

The restoration of the "Kolikho" Dolmen from the Tuapse region, on the Black sea coast, Russia), was successfully completed in 2009. The dolmen was found by accident after the seasonal flood in 2008. It was buried beneath 3 m-thick river deposits and left untouched since the Bronze Age.

"It's not the largest dolmen, or the best-preserved, and certainly not the most beautiful," said Dr. Viktor Trifonov, a Bronze Age expert and the head of the restoration project. What makes this object unique, he said, is its status as "the first honestly acquired museum dolmen."..."These [monuments] were built to be part of the landscape," Trifonov said, "Ancient people would see them and understand — this is a tomb holding someone's remains, this is someone's territory. It's an entire language." (4)

The burial chamber was full of partly disarticulated human remains. All of them were put in the chamber through the hole in the façade slab. Radiocarbon dates of human remains (72 people) covers the period (approx.) between 1800 and 1300 B.C. with no signs of chronological gaps. In other word, the dolmen was in use for about 500 years. The grave goods were small and consist of pottery, a bronze javelin head, bronze spiral earrings, a bone belt buckle, a few stone flakes and a sandstone disk about the size of a dinner plate with signs on both sides.

On one side of the disk are “astral” symbols (an eight pointed star), on other side - marks along the rim of the disk. The last thing is absolutely unexpected find! It looks like sort of device, perhaps the Caucasan version of the Nebra disk. At present nothing more is known.

http://www.ancient-w...ussiadolmen.htm






Also tagged with hobbit, dolmen, pyramid, black sea

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