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Bunnies implicated in Neanderthals demise

bunnies demise neanderthals john fa

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#31    CrimsonKing

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:32 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 04 March 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Any killing of anything, for food or otherwise, is wrong.  It is just that starving yourself is also wrong.  There are big wrongs and small wrongs and in-between wrongs, and we all have to make our decisions.

I am not a vegetarian.  I eat fish and poultry and a few other more bizarre things, but most of my diet is vegetarian.  Do I think it is wrong for others to eat meat?  Well, yes, but cutting off a bit of asparagus is also killing, and therefore wrong, but, as things go, not a very bad wrong.  It is even better if the animal as a result lives better than if it weren't our prey -- either because of domestication and humane treatment or because culling has become a necessity to prevent serious wild suffering.

Westerners have this stupid idea of sin -- if something is wrong it is as sin and all sin is condemned.  This is an absurd notion.  Wrongs come in a scale of wrongness -- lying is wrong but so is telling the truth if it hurts someone.

Well said frank

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#32    Junior Chubb

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 04 March 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

There are big wrongs and small wrongs and in-between wrongs, and we all have to make our decisions.

Westerners have this stupid idea of sin -- if something is wrong it is as sin and all sin is condemned.  This is an absurd notion.  Wrongs come in a scale of wrongness -- lying is wrong but so is telling the truth if it hurts someone.

I would guess you are a Westerner then.  ;)

In reality there are no rights, wrongs or sins just life and death...

I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. Anyway, it's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

#33    CrimsonKing

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostJunior Chubb, on 04 March 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

I would guess you are a Westerner then.  ;)

In reality there are no rights, wrongs or sins just life and death...

Even better said chubb hahaha

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#34    Frank Merton

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

View PostJunior Chubb, on 04 March 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

I would guess you are a Westerner then.  ;)

In reality there are no rights, wrongs or sins just life and death...
Not quite, although I suspect close to it.  I think there are rights and wrongs.  This is a notion that no doubt I was taught very young with a switch but I have both religious and philosophical reasons for retaining the idea.  I just don't buy "sin."  That is an offense against God, and since I'm an atheist I don't believe in that kind of divine legislation.

Something is wrong basically if it harms.  Now many things both harm and do good, which is why there are degrees of harm.  The Buddha (sorry but I can't help bring him into this since that is where I am coming from) teaches that doing harm, lacking compassion, is part of the reason we are trapped in the cycle of suffering, of birth and death.  What we do, both good and bad, changes what we are, and therefore allows us to either progress or causes us to fall back.


#35    CrimsonKing

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:42 PM

i just had 3 eggs,and venison tenderloin for breakfast.I just sinned like crazy,felt and tasted good though so i guess it was worth it :lol:

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#36    Junior Chubb

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:00 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 04 March 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

This is a notion that no doubt I was taught very young

This is where your perception of right or wrong comes from, we all have different (though often similar) perceptions of right and wrong though in reality there is no such thing, there is just survival and what has to be done to survive. Luckily we live in a world where we can justify what is 'right' or what is 'wrong'.


View PostFrank Merton, on 04 March 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

I just don't buy "sin."  That is an offense against God, and since I'm an atheist I don't believe in that kind of divine legislation.

I see where you are coming from with this, but again it is all point of view, for me saying 'sin' is just a posh way of saying 'wrong', linked to religion maybe, but not dependant on it.

Edited by Junior Chubb, 04 March 2013 - 02:00 PM.

I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. Anyway, it's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

#37    Frank Merton

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:07 PM

We have a perception of right and wrong that we were indoctrinated as children, and we all automatically assume this is the proper basis for behavior.  It is called our conscience.

It is a reasonably good guide, but we have to remember that it is a cultural artifact, not a rational one.  So we really need a rational guide to help us assess what our conscience tells us.  In the West some complicated combination of utilitarianism and Kant seems to work.  For me the concept of compassion is the best guide.

Whether or not good and bad are absolutes in the frame of things is problematic, but we can always ask ourselves, does this do good or harm, and how much, and try to decide how to proceed from that.


#38    Junior Chubb

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 04 March 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

but we can always ask ourselves, does this do good or harm, and how much, and try to decide how to proceed from that.

That's always a good way to proceed (and how I like to think I appoach situations), but again yields varyingly wild results depending on the individual.

For me the way to proceed from here would be to wish you a good day...  ;)

I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. Anyway, it's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

#39    Silver Surfer

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:11 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 04 March 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Any killing of anything, for food or otherwise, is wrong.  It is just that starving yourself is also wrong.  There are big wrongs and small wrongs and in-between wrongs, and we all have to make our decisions.

I am not a vegetarian.  I eat fish and poultry and a few other more bizarre things, but most of my diet is vegetarian.  Do I think it is wrong for others to eat meat?  Well, yes, but cutting off a bit of asparagus is also killing, and therefore wrong, but, as things go, not a very bad wrong.  It is even better if the animal as a result lives better than if it weren't our prey -- either because of domestication and humane treatment or because culling has become a necessity to prevent serious wild suffering.

Westerners have this stupid idea of sin -- if something is wrong it is as sin and all sin is condemned.  This is an absurd notion.  Wrongs come in a scale of wrongness -- lying is wrong but so is telling the truth if it hurts someone.

Absolute gibberish, a very confused person.





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