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World’s first 'gay bible' published

gay bible queen james bible

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#106    shadowhive

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 06 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Isn't that what you are expecting PA and others like him to do...give up on that belief that it is sinful?

Well, you don't like it when the same is done to you... From all you have said, it's OK for you to hammer on and on at someone to change their belief's to suit you and your way of thinking, but that's were the line is drawn

BM, there is a line. Racism, sexism and homophobia (which, like it or not, incldes homosexuality being a sin) are all things that are absolutely unacceptable. Those things, wherever they are found should always be fought against, regardless of how deeply held the belief is.

Great leaps in progress have been made by people 'hammering on and on' for equal rights and treatment.

Edited by shadowhive, 06 February 2013 - 09:17 PM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#107    Sherapy

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:16 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 06 February 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

The thing is, though, that in this vulnerable people are being manipulated and exploited. They may still make a 'choice' but at the end of the day they're so pressured by peers, family or preachers that they don't see any other option and that's hardly a choice.



The belief that it's a sin leads to it being called a disease and all that torture. It's painfully and glaringly obvious yet you seem to miss it every time.

Yes, I feel sorry for those priests. Yes, I feel they too have been manipulated by 'what god wants'.

I am not going to support people that toss their humanity in the trash. Part of being human is having relationships and experiencing love, finding happiness. Having a family. Pushing people to deny themselves those experiences is wrong because it's cutting off an important part of your humanity. I'm sorry, but no one should be asked to sacrifice that. And the fact that you're comfortable with doing that, it speaks volumes.

I think you have an interesting point and I'd add-- I think  it is something to take serious and that is the way a belief system is being taught or presented-- that is what  contributes to limiting the available options(personal experiences)for the religious person. Secondly,I'd add that the way the beliefs are taught set up the boundaries by which a person will feel free to experience themselves ( in other words  their religion can contribute to having personal experiences that are harmful or not particularly useful,) I have also observed some religious teachings that do not encourage or allow curiosity ( which is the drive that seeks to question, the drive that seeks growth or another way to see/do things.) Some religions are definitely taught as fixed mindsets. Which brings me to the OP--creating an alternative (Queen James) is an excellent idea and illustrates a growth oriented mindset. IMO

To see this in my lifetime is astounding, I am humbled by the  growth we have had as a culture (about homosexuality) it really begins with the this type of bravery--. the type that seeks the inclusive path.




#108    Eldorado

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:21 PM

And God said, 'Let there be glitter.'  And there was glitter.


#109    Sherapy

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:25 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 06 February 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

If Christians did drop the faith in gay is sinful, the homophobia all over the world will never go away..   If the bible never gave homosexuality a mention, homophobia would still be here regardless ..

Homophobia is part of human nature for many...  However, more people in this present day and age, are more accepting than they were say 50 -60 years ago..  It used to be illegal to be gay in so many places, and now people have come a long way since then, and it will get to a stage were most of the population will be more accepting.. The only ones left who will not be accepting are the religious and other homophobes who hate homosexuality and think it is wrong

Yep, I just recently heard on the news that the boy scouts are changing their mind on the gay ban they have.
http://www.cnn.com/2...y-scouts-policy

Edited by Sherapy, 06 February 2013 - 09:31 PM.




#110    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:29 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 06 February 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

BM, there is a line. Racism, sexism and homophobia (which, like it or not, incldes homosexuality being a sin) are all things that are absolutely unacceptable.

This is were selfishness creeps in... I want you to think and act my way, because my way is the right way.. Like a Christian mind set when wanting to convert others ... You are no different..

When a Christian comes to you, nagging at you telling you that you are wrong and your belief is wrong, you will not tolerate it, but low and behold, you sit and expect another Christian to sit and take it...

You've been arguing with PA and others like him for years on here over gays, you admit you have not gotten anywhere, but you are too stubborn to call it a day and realize it wont get any better..   You could wind up sitting here at the age of 60 and still argue the same things over and over...I am not saying you shouldn't keep the same arguments, I just don't see logic in beating the same rug over and over and not getting it clean

You may as well go and hunt out old gay threads with the pair of you arguing in, and copy and paste those, because I am betting nothing new has been said before..

Quote

   Great leaps in progress have been made by people 'hammering on and on' for equal rights and treatment.   

So getting one Christian on here after years of hammering the same things again and again is ......progress in the real world? Really?   Treat others how you like to be treated, so do you like people hammering away at you non stop with the same things over and over?

Quote

Yep, I just recently heard on the news that the boy scouts are changing their mind on the anti gay stance.   

Fair play to them...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 06 February 2013 - 09:36 PM.

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#111    shadowhive

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:49 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 06 February 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

This is were selfishness creeps in... I want you to think and act my way, because my way is the right way.. Like a Christian mind set when wanting to convert others ... You are no different..

It's not selfish to want the world to be a better place. It's not selfishness to want people to shed their harmful prejudices.... Oh wait. It is! I'm sorry, it's always selfish when it comes to changing the minds of the religious, how could i have let that slip my mind?

Quote

When a Christian comes to you, nagging at you telling you that you are wrong and your belief is wrong, you will not tolerate it, but low and behold, you sit and expect another Christian to sit and take it...

You've been arguing with PA and others like him for years on here over gays, you admit you have not gotten anywhere, but you are too stubborn to call it a day and realize it wont get any better..   You could wind up sitting here at the age of 60 and still argue the same things over and over...I am not saying you shouldn't keep the same arguments, I just don't see logic in beating the same rug over and over and not getting it clean

You may as well go and hunt out old gay threads with the pair of you arguing in, and copy and paste those, because I am betting nothing new has been said before..

So basically I should shut my mouth and let them win. Nice.

Quote

So getting one Christian on here after years of hammering the same things again and again is ......progress in the real world? Really?   Treat others how you like to be treated, so do you like people hammering away at you non stop with the same things over and over?

Getting anyone to change their mind is progress.

If the roles were reversed, and you were confronted by someone that had a negative attitude to women would you stop trying to change it?

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#112    Sherapy

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:50 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 06 February 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

It's not selfish to want the world to be a better place. It's not selfishness to want people to shed their harmful prejudices.... Oh wait. It is! I'm sorry, it's always selfish when it comes to changing the minds of the religious, how could i have let that slip my mind?



So basically I should shut my mouth and let them win. Nice.



Getting anyone to change their mind is progress.

If the roles were reversed, and you were confronted by someone that had a negative attitude to women would you stop trying to change it?

I think when looking at the world  self interest is a good idea,  Asking what is in it for me and future generations is a fair/valid question.




#113    Paranoid Android

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:48 AM

View Postshadowhive, on 06 February 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

So basically I should shut my mouth and let them win. Nice.
I wouldn't use those words, but if you want to do that, go for it.  That's what I've decided to do.  I made a resolution a day or so back that I'll gladly discuss any issue with you, except homosexuality.  I won't quote anything of yours that directly speaks on homosexuality, and I won't reply to anything you say to me about homosexuality.

That's not to say that I won't discuss other issues with you,  or that I won't comment to other members about homosexuality, it's just that we always go in circles over the exact same points.  So if you quote me about homosexuality and I don't respond, that's why.

In a sense, if you want to think of it as me shutting my mouth and letting you win, I'm comfortable with that.  In a sense, that's what I'm doing.

~ Regards, PA

Edited by Paranoid Android, 07 February 2013 - 03:49 AM.

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#114    White Crane Feather

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:04 AM

View Postfreetoroam, on 05 February 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:


So in todays society are there no gay muslims?  or have none yet not dare come out of the closet?
I saw a video clip once of the Iranian president giving a talk with American students. One young man asked him about how they treat gay people. He said that there was no such phenomenon In his country. All the college kids started cracking up laughing... It was funny.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#115    White Crane Feather

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:40 AM

If we are rewriting the bible here let's put in a few commandments that need to be said.

11. Thou shall Live and let live.

12. Thou shall not poision or pilliage that which the lord thy god has given you dominion over.

13. Thou shall not comit blasphemy against the lords other  fiorms, for god comes in many.



"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#116    shadowhive

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:48 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 07 February 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

I wouldn't use those words, but if you want to do that, go for it.  That's what I've decided to do.  I made a resolution a day or so back that I'll gladly discuss any issue with you, except homosexuality.  I won't quote anything of yours that directly speaks on homosexuality, and I won't reply to anything you say to me about homosexuality.

That's not to say that I won't discuss other issues with you,  or that I won't comment to other members about homosexuality, it's just that we always go in circles over the exact same points.  So if you quote me about homosexuality and I don't respond, that's why.

In a sense, if you want to think of it as me shutting my mouth and letting you win, I'm comfortable with that.  In a sense, that's what I'm doing.

~ Regards, PA


If that's what you want to do, fine, but it doesn't come off as 'winning'. It comes off as an otherwise intelligent person who wants to stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la la la' because of what the bible says, disregarding any harm done in any form to other human beings in the process. That doesn't sound like a win just sounds dismissive.

I pity you that that's the case and hope (as always) you come to your senses but for some reason you've let an ancient book dig it's claws into you and take over your judgemnet, so I'm not gonna hold out on that.

You know why it 'goes round in circles'? Because I don't understand you. I don't understand how an otherwise intelligent person can hold onto a belief that is so obviously harmful. That does extreme mental backflips to excuse and justify it. I don't understand how you can ignore something that just seems so obvious in favor of what a book says, and a book wrote by uninformed people at that.

I'll never understand how anyone can value the bible and god so much over their fellow man.

Edited by shadowhive, 07 February 2013 - 10:00 AM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#117    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:31 AM

View Postshadowhive, on 06 February 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

It's not selfish to want the world to be a better place.

You arguing with one Christian on a forum for ages is not a sign you are wanting to make the word a better place.....People who want to make the world a better place, get out there and they get involved in causes to help.. They don't call sitting on a forum arguing with the odd person here and there is making things better .. Arguing on any forum is not going to make changes in the world..

Quote

   it's always selfish when it comes to changing the minds of the religious, how could i have let that slip my mind?

I call it all acts of selfishness.. If anyone tries hard to argue non stop with someone, hoping they will change a belief they hold, it selfishness through and through..It doesn't matter if you are religious or not, if you harp on at others who's beliefs are different from yours, you are being selfish looking them to think and act your way over certain issues .   Everyone who does this, all think its their right and their belief  to do it, but others will stand on the outside looking in and see a different picture.

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 07 February 2013 - 11:34 AM.

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#118    Paranoid Android

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:40 AM

View Postshadowhive, on 07 February 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

If that's what you want to do, fine, but it doesn't come off as 'winning'. It comes off as an otherwise intelligent person who wants to stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la la la' because of what the bible says, disregarding any harm done in any form to other human beings in the process. That doesn't sound like a win just sounds dismissive.
I should have expected something like this.  And here, just so we're absolutely clear, you're argument basically boils down to this, and just so there's no misunderstanding, I'll use your quotes only:

You ignore me - "So basically I should shut my mouth and let them win. Nice."

I ignore you - "That doesn't sound like a win just sounds dismissive"

So when you don't argue, you "shut up and let me win". When I don't argue, I "just sound dismissive".  So with that in mind, surely you don't need to ask me why I've chosen to ignore your responses on homosexuality.

Posted Image

My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811

#119    shadowhive

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:48 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 07 February 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

You arguing with one Christian on a forum for ages is not a sign you are wanting to make the word a better place.....People who want to make the world a better place, get out there and they get involved in causes to help.. They don't call sitting on a forum arguing with the odd person here and there is making things better .. Arguing on any forum is not going to make changes in the world..

That assumes that all I do is argue, which is not respective of what I actually do the rest of the time when I'm not here. Nice try though.

Quote

I call it all acts of selfishness.. If anyone tries hard to argue non stop with someone, hoping they will change a belief they hold, it selfishness through and through..It doesn't matter if you are religious or not, if you harp on at others who's beliefs are different from yours, you are being selfish looking them to think and act your way over certain issues .   Everyone who does this, all think its their right and their belief  to do it, but others will stand on the outside looking in and see a different picture.

I see people acting on the belief that homosexuality is a sin by assauting, abusing and murdering people. Because that belief is obviously both a cause and an excuse I want it to stop. But no, that's selfish isn't it? I never realised wanting to stop people being harmed was selfish.

I'm nothing like people who want gay people to change by force or because of their faith.

Edited by shadowhive, 07 February 2013 - 11:49 AM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#120    shadowhive

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 07 February 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

I should have expected something like this.  And here, just so we're absolutely clear, you're argument basically boils down to this, and just so there's no misunderstanding, I'll use your quotes only:

You ignore me - "So basically I should shut my mouth and let them win. Nice."

I ignore you - "That doesn't sound like a win just sounds dismissive"

So when you don't argue, you "shut up and let me win". When I don't argue, I "just sound dismissive".  So with that in mind, surely you don't need to ask me why I've chosen to ignore your responses on homosexuality.

That's not the arguement at all but it's a nice try to deflect it into something like that.

You are dismissive. No matter what I say, no matter how much I tell you or share, regardess of how personal or painful it is, you just don't care. I shouldn't be surprised. The belief causes harm to people and you still don't care or even acknowledge that it does. All you are is dismissive and just because of religion. Is it really worth it?

The prime examplle of your hypocrisy is your attitude to gay cures. Sure, you say you condemn them. But then someone comes and says they're 'ex-gay' because of their faith you praise them like it's the best thing ever. So in reality you're not against gay cures because you're perfectly ok with the religious 'cure', just as long as it's not called that so your conscience can be clean.

But hey, I fully expect none of that to matter to you, for you to stay completely oblivious as ever. I just hope your belief is worth the suffering of others that it causes.

Edited by shadowhive, 07 February 2013 - 11:58 AM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."




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