Ozfactor Posted August 25, 2015 #1 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Stephen Fry and his views on God I find Stephen's views are worthy of worship What a pity when our ancestors stared up the stars and created a creator they didn't have Stephen's realizations , imagine ! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozfactor Posted August 25, 2015 Author #2 Share Posted August 25, 2015 IF their is a god , he is as ****ed up as we are ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted August 25, 2015 #3 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Carlins views make you think too 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozfactor Posted August 25, 2015 Author #4 Share Posted August 25, 2015 This should be in the religion section . I am not sure how to move it x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted August 25, 2015 #5 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Maybe the whole point of this World is to have an experience that is diverse and different by it's very nature. Why, maybe you already are somewhere else without any form or emotion, in some other dimension and you have been projected in this reality as a human being. Learn, enjoy, suffer, experience. Do exist. Stephen Fry's criticism are, in my view, relevant only for a type of anthropomorphic Creator who reasonate, if not look like a human. Edited August 25, 2015 by Phenix20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozfactor Posted August 25, 2015 Author #6 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Carlins views make you think too I love it I might take the humorous approach from now on instead of being so defensive and getting so worked up .. awesome video x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted August 25, 2015 #7 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Maybe the whole point of this World is to have an experience that is diverse and different by it's very nature. Why, maybe you already are somewhere else without any form or emotion, in some other dimension and you have been projected in this reality as a human being. Learn, enjoy, suffer, experience. Do exist. Stephen Fry's criticism are, in my view, relevant only for a type of anthropomorphic Creator who reasonate, if not look like a human. Which was what he was asked to respond to. You might be a butterfly imagining he's a man, or a road dreaming he's a butterfly dreaming he's a human. Or you may be a brain in a vat, I never really understand the people who think having an insect burrow its way out of your eye is a valuable experience. If you think so, I encourage you to pursue it. It is not an experience I would value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted August 25, 2015 #8 Share Posted August 25, 2015 You might be a butterfly imagining he's a man, or a road dreaming he's a butterfly dreaming he's a human. Or you may be a brain in a vat, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted August 25, 2015 #9 Share Posted August 25, 2015 You could be a dinosaur dreaming he's a fish, dreaming he is a chimpanzee, dreaming he's a goat, dreaming he's a mosquito, dreaming he is a road, dreaming he is a butterfly, dreaming he is a human. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted August 25, 2015 #10 Share Posted August 25, 2015 One more, 10 commandments 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozfactor Posted August 25, 2015 Author #11 Share Posted August 25, 2015 One more, 10 commandments I just googled him , his views on obesity are hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted August 25, 2015 #12 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I just googled him , his views on obesity are hilarious Just go to youtube and look him up...tonnes of stuff to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted August 25, 2015 #13 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I never really understand the people who think having an insect burrow its way out of your eye is a valuable experience.If you think so, I encourage you to pursue it. It is not an experience I would value. We live in a natural world. Parasits may burrow the eye, for it is a rudimentary life form that feeds on organic matter. The human being may slaughter it's pray and eat it too, for he has basic needs to cover. We live in a system that is the Universe. We seem to think that we are above nature, that if God exist than he should make us more special. Life is in evolution. We exist because these physical laws were there in the first place. Indeed, it's a challenging experience that we should be mindful of, just maybe that's all our abstract selves ever wanted: to exist in a concrete form where things are in motion, unpredictable and diverse in nature. Evil and many other awful things exist to our human minds but there are also things of absolute beauty. There exist a balance. Edited August 25, 2015 by Phenix20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted August 25, 2015 #14 Share Posted August 25, 2015 That didn't actually respond to my post. You seem to be stating, as a person that has not experienced such suffering you are glad such suffering exists so you can enjoy your own position. You can enjoy your life and find great beauty in it, without comparing it to the plight of a malnourished child who's eyesight is robbed painfully by a parasite. In fact, many do. You don't need to see a decayed corpse to appreciate the beauty of a rose. The point of Stephen Fry's response is that the god proposed by the person who asked him the question could have very easily created the world in such a way that those parasites and diseases did not exist, and we are only susceptible to harms we ourselves caused. Yet instead there are great terrors inflicted on the most vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted August 25, 2015 #15 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) You seem to be stating, as a person that has not experienced such suffering you are glad such suffering exists so you can enjoy your own position. You can enjoy your life and find great beauty in it, without comparing it to the plight of a malnourished child who's eyesight is robbed painfully by a parasite. In fact, many do. Not at all. I am saying that's how the natural world appears to work based on observation. It's a system in evolution. Not that I do understand why it works or why it's laws should have been designed in such a way as to produce suffering. I nonetheless take my life as an experience of great value. Some might speak of reincarnation as an explanation. But I think there exist a purpose for why I am here, in this particular set up. Others might see it differently and that's their choice. You don't need to see a decayed corpse to appreciate the beauty of a rose. Maybe, but not knowing that there exist different type of emotions which are not necesserely pleasant can make us appreciate the beauty even more. But again it's a matter of perspective. There are people who do appreciate decayed corpses. People who do appreciate suffering in some form or another. That's also a reality. Edited August 25, 2015 by Phenix20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted August 25, 2015 #16 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) The point of Stephen Fry's response is that the god proposed by the person who asked him the question could have very easily created the world in such a way that those parasites and diseases did not exist, and we are only susceptible to harms we ourselves caused.Yet instead there are great terrors inflicted on the most vulnerable. It's the old problem of evil that monotheist religions have been struggling with. But I disagree with the title of the Youtube video, ''Stephen Fry Annhilates God'', he may be hitting hard on one form of God, the antropomorphic Creator that is omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent but I don't think one needs to default to Atheism as a solution for this problem. Even Polytheism isn't particularly concerned with the argument from evil. Many Gods, many different concepts. Edited August 25, 2015 by Phenix20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted August 25, 2015 #17 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I am fine with the fact it happens due to evolution and the natural world. Nor am I ignoring the beauty of the world. And yes, some people enjoy self afflicted pain, good for them. And yes, there can be art in decay. But tell me, do you need the eye dwelling oarasite ti appreciate life, or do you need their suffering to appreciate a rose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted August 25, 2015 #18 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's the old problem of evil that monotheist religions have been struggling with. But I disagree with the title of the Youtube video, ''Stephen Fry Annhilates God'', he may be hitting hard on one form of God, the antropomorphic Creator that is omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent but there I don't think one needs to default to Atheism as a solution for this problem. Even Polytheism isn't particularly concerned with the argument from evil. Many Gods, many different concepts. Of course there are, god is an amorphous badily defined conceot. Again, Fry was specifically responding to a specific form of god. So if course he didnt cover all god concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted August 25, 2015 #19 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) But tell me, do you need the eye dwelling oarasite ti appreciate life, or do you need their suffering to appreciate a rose? Either way my answer is biased. I know what evil can be. I have seen suffering and have experienced some form of it. Of course I don't want them and have come to the conclusion that I don't need them in my life. But if there was nothing but beauty it probably wouldn't make sense to call it beauty. How can we appreciate it or dislike it if it ''just is'' without any possible comparison or polar opposite to define it? It's the unity of opposites that seems to make the world a special place. Edited August 25, 2015 by Phenix20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted August 25, 2015 #20 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I am talking extremes. You can live and appreciate your life fine without these parasites. You can appreciate and love a new born child, without having a disease that causes tumors to form on brainstems. Even when things are beautiful, you can compare them to other more beautiful things. Women are beautiful, but my girlfriend is more beautiful to me. And so on. You are saying you need to have people suffer like this, so you can enjoy your life. I simply reject that. I appreciated my life just fine without knowing this, and knowing this hasnt lead to greater appreciation for my own joys. Knowing there are starving children in Africa doesnt increase my appetite, it just makes me pity them. Edited August 25, 2015 by ShadowSot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted August 25, 2015 #21 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I am talking extremes. You can live and appreciate your life fine without these parasites. And why can't the parasites live their lives too? I mean that's the question. We are part of nature and so do they. The assumption here is that a God would have created a world where the human specie should be above nature without any challenges, be exempt of suffering and where evolution is therefore unecessery. You are saying you need to have people suffer like this, so you can enjoy your life. I simply reject that.I appreciated my life just fine without knowing this, and knowing this hasnt lead to greater appreciation for my own joys. Knowing there are starving children in Africa doesnt increase my appetite, it just makes me pity them. I don't want other people's suffering and I do not wish to contribute to it. But I am saying that suffering exist. That's a fact we can't escape. And that blissfulness also exist. Now what if they are opposites that go together? Could they be two sides of the same coin that our own minds have splitted into a kind of duality? Edited August 25, 2015 by Phenix20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted August 25, 2015 #22 Share Posted August 25, 2015 And why can't the parasites live their lives? That's the question. We are part of nature and so do they. The assumption here is that a God would have created a world where only humans should thrive and that nothing should stand in our way, that we need no evolution as a specie. I don't need other people's suffering and I do not wish to contribute to it in any way. But I am saying that suffering exist as an observation. And that blissfulness also exist. Now what if they are opposites that go together? Could they be two sides of the same coin? The point is the parasite could exist without causing great harm to otgers. You are stating things as they are. In the context of an all powerful god, they could be different and not require such things. A more efficient existence not requiring a host that is actively trying to negate its existence would benefit the parasite as well. You have already stated you appreciate life without having to experience or know about parasites burrowing out of your eye. I have already stated the same. There are many more horrors neither of us are aware of, and we appreciate and enjoy life. So yes, they can be separated and treated separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upsidedownworld Posted September 1, 2015 #23 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) The only way I can even begin to tally the concept of a benevolent monotheistic creator with the abject cruelty and suffering of life is through some forms of Gnosticism which say that the material world is intrinistically evil created by a demimurge which our souls have somehow become entangled with. Nature is neither good nor evil as they are both human made concepts like morality (which doesn't mean they are not important quite the opposite in my opinion) but if morality and goodness exist externally outside the human mind (which I doubt) then surely this life and existence cannot be the doing of a benevolent God? If God or supernatural goodness do exist then they can have no or little jurisdiction over the universe of matter. As Arthur C Clarke said it's a shame morality has been hijacked by religion. Edited September 1, 2015 by upsidedownworld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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