11638 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 03 November 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

Jensma
1. denies that Cornelis over de Linden did not understand the manuscript as he wrote to Verwijs,
2. denies that Leendert over de Linden stated that his father Cornelis over de Linden did not write the OLB,
3. denies the role of Ernest Stadermann,
4. denies that Verwijs called the OLB a hoax in a letter to Johan Winkler,
5. denies that Haverschmidt wrote to Leendert over the Linden, that he did not participate and even didn't know Cornelis over de Linden.

If one denies, what people have written, one can proof anything.

See: http://www.rodinbook...olbbrieven.html to read their letters.

This is not about Haverschmidt or Verwijs or what Jensma thought or not, it is about what Cornelus' grandson recalled:

"In it a scene is sketched about Cornelis Over de Linden who finished some pieces of the text during daytime, and who during the evening, together with two learned doctors, re-read the writing and then, as recalled by Cornelis' grandson, the three men roared with laughter: "They'll never believe it '.

These 'two learned doctors' could be anyone.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 03 November 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

This is the only theory that comes close to Lydia:

Oric Bates, a historian, considers that the name Libu or LBW would be derived from the name Luwatah[7] whilst the name Liwata is a derivation of the name Libu.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Ancient_Libya

For all the rest of recorded (Phoenician, Egyptian, Greek and Roman) history the name is written with LB.

What part don't you get? ANY of those words could have been used for Libya in the past. From Liber to Leuda - or liudu, it's also German leute (people, free) This is why the Berbers are known as FREE men, noble etc.

from liber "free," from PIE base *leudheros (cf. Gk. eleutheros "free"),

It doesn't matter that you don't know of it called that - the word has a PIE base of LEUD - just like the Frisian words Leud or Liud as in Luidgert.

But yeah, let's go he flipped the d and b's around....I suppose they also swapped places the y and i -  

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 03 November 2011 - 12:59 PM, said:

What part don't you get? ANY of those words could have been used for Libya in the past. From Liber to Leuda - or liudu, it's also German leute (people, free) This is why the Berbers are known as FREE men, noble etc.

from liber "free," from PIE base *leudheros (cf. Gk. eleutheros "free"),

It doesn't matter that you don't know of it called that - the word has a PIE base of LEUD - just like the Frisian words Leud or Liud as in Luidgert.

But yeah, let's go he flipped the d and b's around....I suppose they also swapped places the y and i -  

I understand you perfectly, but up to now you failed to show me why every known ancient culture uses a form of LB, but only the Fryans used LD. You don't see the obvious trick: Libya >> Lydia ? Why not Liudia or Leuda or Ludia or whatever? ("roaring with laughter").

You should not forget that they dominated Europe and the Med for ages.

[Abramelin]

Something about the etymology of Massilia/Marseilles:

One does not know from where the name of Μασσαλία (Massalia) comes. Some historians think that the Massalia, like the Lacydon which gave its name to the ancient port, was perhaps a coastal river which was flowing into the large creek where the Greeks who came from Phocaea landed. Others propose a Semitic origin : Matsal, a protective place.

http://www.massalia....nt-propos2.html


Marseille , the oldest city in France , was founded in 600 BC by Greeks from Phocae as a trading port under the name of Massalia. The origin of the name is obscure , some see it as the name of a river that was taken by Greeks to enter the city , some see it as the name "Mas Salyorum" (land of the Salyens) and some even see a phoenician root "Matsal" (place of the protector).

http://www.forumbiod...p?t=2711&page=6

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 03 November 2011 - 01:07 PM, said:

I understand you perfectly, but up to now you failed to show me why every known ancient culture uses a form of LB, but only the Fryans used LD. You don't see the obvious trick: Libya >> Lydia ? Why not Liudia or Leuda or Ludia or whatever? ("roaring with laughter").

You should not forget that they dominated Europe and the Med for ages.

By the time it was named Libya the language of the people was different, probably to some Arabic language.

Hi stêk thus mith sinum flâte nêi Lydia, thaet is Lyda his lând, thêr wildon tha swarta maenniska fâta hjam aend êta.

He went straight over from Italy to 'Lydia' - he wasn't at Lydia in Anatolia either Knul.. if that's hwat you meant.

WHoever wrote the OLB knew what they were doing - if you mean in the text, yes, he probably swapped Libya to Lydia to make us think more, we know know also it COULD have been Lydia, because PIE gives LEUD, which is in Frisian.

This is what the writer knew. To Frisians maybe Libya transferred in language to the word Lydia, which it does.

Because the PIE is a made up word - the real PIE word is probably LYDA.

Edited by The Puzzler, 03 November 2011 - 01:23 PM.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 03 November 2011 - 01:21 PM, said:

By the time it was named Libya the language of the people was different, probably to some Arabic language.

Hi stêk thus mith sinum flâte nêi Lydia, thaet is Lyda his lând, thêr wildon tha swarta maenniska fâta hjam aend êta.

He went straight over from Italy to 'Lydia' - he wasn't at Lydia in Anatolia either Knul.. if that's hwat you meant.

WHoever wrote the OLB knew what they were doing - if you mean in the text, yes, he probably swapped Libya to Lydia to make us think more, we know know also it COULD have been Lydia, because PIE gives LEUD, which is in Frisian.

This is what the writer knew. To Frisians maybe Libya transferred in language to the word Lydia, which it does.

Because the PIE is a made up word - the real PIE word is probably LYDA.

The ancient Greek, long before any Arab had set foot in Libya, called it "Libúē":

These Libu are attested since the Late Bronze Age as inhabiting the region (Egyptian: R'bw, Punic: lby). The oldest known references to the Libu date to Ramesses II and his successor Merneptah, Egyptian rulers of the nineteenth dynasty, during the 13th century BCE. LBW appears as an ethnic name on the Merneptah Stele.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Ancient_Libya


.

Edited by Abramelin, 03 November 2011 - 01:29 PM.

[The Puzzler]

In your head you have to place the events as happening - then imagine those people spoke Fryan - then think of it getting mangled through Greek, which included an Eastern influence in their language...

Pops out a word.

But this is not the original forms of words and the best they can do is introduce a proto Indo-European word to explain how the Greek word came into Greece.

The PIE word could be the Fryan form of the word but it appears to be a Greek word or such, just like that ache example showed, Dr Johnson thought it had come from Greek but it was apparently a German word. So why is it in Greek?

I also say it's the meaning for Achilles, his weak spot of pain, Ach and Achaeans - his Achilles heel.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 03 November 2011 - 01:30 PM, said:

In your head you have to place the events as happening - then imagine those people spoke Fryan - then think of it getting mangled through Greek, which included an Eastern influence in their language...

Pops out a word.

But this is not the original forms of words and the best they can do is introduce a proto Indo-European word to explain how the Greek word came into Greece.

The PIE word could be the Fryan form of the word but it appears to be a Greek word or such, just like that ache example showed, Dr Johnson thought it had come from Greek but it was apparently a German word. So why is it in Greek?

I also say it's the meaning for Achilles, his weak spot of pain, Ach and Achaeans - his Achilles heel.

So both the Phoenicians, Egyptians and Greek were all kind of deaf?

As I quoted in my former post, the name already appears during the late Bronze Age (about 1500 BC and onwards).

[The Puzzler]

The writer knew that Lydia was a correct, original term of the country Libya - he hasn't just played letter changies. It doesn't really matter if you have heard of it or not. It doesn't even have to be the country was ever named that. The OLB is a fabrication.

It's to show that Leud/Lyd is Fryan and the country has a Fryan based name, that got changed to LIB based on following the PIE word through.

Edited by The Puzzler, 03 November 2011 - 01:38 PM.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 03 November 2011 - 01:35 PM, said:

The writer knew that Lydia was the correct, original term of Libya - he hasn't just played letter changies. It doesn't really matter if you have heard of it or not.

He must have been an Etruscan, lol.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 03 November 2011 - 01:37 PM, said:

He must have been an Etruscan, lol.

It is the intention in the book to have us believe, whether it be true or not, that the languages of the Greeks and Romans, is actually Fryan based.

Fryan should be the PIE language is what the OLB is saying imo.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 03 November 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

It is the intention in the book to have us believe, whether it be true or not, that the languages of the Greeks and Romans, is actually Fryan based.

Fryan should be the PIE language is what the OLB is saying imo.

The OLB Fryan Empire was the origin of lots of things in Europe and beyond: language, paper, alphabet, writing, religion, and culture.

Then it all got forgotten or distorted beyond recognition, and now all we are left with is one manuscript that isn't even the original but a recent copy.

[The Puzzler]

free (v.)
O.E. freogan "to free, liberate, manumit," also "to love, think of lovingly, honor," from freo (see free (adj.)). Cf. O.Fris. fria "to make free;" O.S. friohan "to court, woo;" Ger. befreien "to free," freien "to woo;" O.N. frja "to love;" Goth. frijon "to love." Related: Freed; freeing.


To love - to lieve - to liebe

This word comes up as lieve too.

lieve - maybe like in be-lieve

Finnish[edit] Etymology

Considered of Baltic origin, related to eg. Latvian klepis (“lap”). Distribution of the word within Baltic Finnic is limited to the northern languages, e.g. Veps lebe
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lieve

The Liebe - the Lieve = lap....this must come from the lep part equalling liebe (love) - Lap seems it might actually equal something like liebe/lieve/love....through Latvian klepis.


From Middle High German liebe (“the quality of love, pleasure, joy, favour, love”) , from Old High German liob / lioba (“fortune, health, pleasantness, joy”), from Proto-Germanic *leubn- / *leubo (“love”), from Proto-Indo-European *lub?- (“to enjoy, to long for”).
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Liebe

A people called the Libu could even mean liebe imo, that description equalled what free people were and enjoyed

I think these words can be the same. That liberal came from the word Liebe.

liberal (adj.)
late 14c., from O.Fr. liberal "befitting free men, noble, generous," from L. liberalis "noble, generous," lit. "pertaining to a free man," from liber "free," from PIE base *leudheros (cf. Gk. eleutheros "free"), probably originally "belonging to the people" (though the precise semantic development is obscure), from *leudho- "people" (cf. O.C.S. ljudu, Lith. liaudis, O.E. leod, Ger. Leute "nation, people").

I said before I think this is the base of Priams name.
I also think that liberal and free could be the same word deep down.
free (adj.)
O.E. freo "free, exempt from, not in bondage," also "noble; joyful," from P.Gmc. *frijaz (cf. O.Fris. fri, O.S., O.H.G. vri, Ger. frei, Du. vrij, Goth. freis "free"), from PIE *prijos "dear, beloved," from base *pri- "to love" (cf. Skt. priyah "own, dear, beloved," priyate "loves;" O.C.S. prijati "to help," prijatelji "friend;" Welsh rhydd "free"). The adverb is from O.E. freon, freogan "to free, love."

Here we have a mix of both those above meanings mixed in to create FREE. I think they are basically all the same words and meanings. Love, noble, freedom, joy, people.

Lieve - Love/life    Liber - the people, free noble, generous.

Free -  joyful  to love  and also noble.

The Liber/Lieve/liede/Lap was free, joyful and noble and full of pleasure, joy and love.

Enough for me for tonight.  

Edited by The Puzzler, 03 November 2011 - 02:56 PM.

[Abramelin]

The Baltic origin of 'lieve' is not as clearcut as your link suggests:

http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/lief

On that Dutch site they refer to languages all over Europe and to Sanskrit.

=

Btw: ever heard of "free love"? You know that is love without social ties.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 03 November 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

The OLB world was divided in EUROPE - ASIA - AFRICA monitored by the three sisters FRYA -FINDA - LYDA. Europe was divided between Frya (West) and Finda (East), the Middle-East between Finda (back) and Lyda (front). So Lyda reigned both over Lydia and Libya.

Description: T-O map from the 7th century, the early Middle Ages, with the description of the world according the Etymologiae of Isidore of Sevilla, who was Archbishop of Seville/Spain for more than three decades. This T and O map is a copy from the 12th century.

http://ancientworldm...bel/7th Century


====



According to this map, the Anatolian Lydia would be part of Asia (Finda-land):



World Map 17th Century

Description: Exceptional map of the world made in 1650 by the Dutch publisher Jan Jansson (Johannes Janssonius). Such maps, showing comtemporary geopraphy with ancient place names, were popular in the post-renaissance period.

http://ancientworldm...el/17th century

.

Edited by Abramelin, 03 November 2011 - 03:28 PM.