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Phoenix Lights & Fife Symington


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#46    quillius

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:02 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 29 May 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

We could literally go round and round endlessly about this and wind up no closer to a broadly accepted explanation than we already are.  I don't know about you, but I'm not really interested in that kind of exercise.  Yes, there are varying reports from many witnesses.  Yes many of those reports are similar, and yes many are different.  I still fall back on the verified accounts which indicate that they were planes in formation.  I can understand people mistaking such a thing for one large object, but I can't understand people mistaking one large object for individual planes in formation.

As for the "another astronomers view" statement, add onto that the word anonymous.  I no longer give much credence to anonymous sources when it comes to UFO events.  Take the anonymous whistle blower who supposedly phoned in from the base as another example of this.

Again, for those determined to cling to the mystery, there is plenty of fodder to draw from.  You're welcome to keep this one in your "unexplained" bin if you'd prefer, but you'll find very little agreement on that assessment from me.

Cheers  :)

Fair enough. I do agree with the going round and round statement.....


View PostBabe Ruth, on 29 May 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Am I reading the posts correctly Quillius and Boo?  Are you guys saying you think the 2000 sighting was a formation flight of airplanes?


View PostbooNyzarC, on 29 May 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

We're discussing the March 13th, 1997 sightings, the first of which was around 8 PM.  It is my position that this earlier sighting was indeed a formation of airplanes.  I'm fairly sure that Quillius doesn't consider the earlier sighting explained, though I don't think he's voiced an opinion that it wasn't planes either.

I think that is a very accurate interpretation of my position Boon. :tu:


#47    Babe Ruth

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 02:58 PM

Sorry to confuse everybody with the 2000 reference.  My apologies.  I should have made it 2000 hours.

For the civilians amongst us, that would be 8 PM.  Eight o'clock at night.


#48    quillius

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:23 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 29 May 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Hi Qullius

This is indeed the sort of thing that sounds puzzling, and indeed it is. The way I see it, these people cannot possibly be correct with regards to the lights being part of one craft. We have two academics who apparently do not own recording equipment of any kind, and whilst the wife was so amazed that she insisted her husband view what she had seen she did not have the nouse to pick up a camera. Had we a picture of a triangle formation of lights directly over the city, then the flares would be debunked, yet this confirms what Mitch Stanley said in the the lights were moving toward the airport if the time frame is compatible. The transcript provided (without link mate! What's going on there?) does not distinguish which sighting these people are talking about so I am not really sure which sighting it is addressing. I happen to deal with Honeywell Australia from time to time, I doubt anyone here would be able to confirm this, but I do know one person I can ask there.
Nice call though, I admire that you found a witness that was not a person with no qualification. More will become apparent when I find out what sighting they speak of.

Cheers.

Hey Psyche, really short of time until hopefully tomorrow.

Anyhow check out the link for the earlier quote plus some others..

http://www.nuforc.or...ndxe199703.html

cheers


#49    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:35 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 29 May 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

Hi McGuffin

I do not doubt you at all. In fact I expect that certain secrets are necessary but I do not understand why so many believe that any person in the street is an expert in identifying these sort of situations when the military says they definitely do have an explanation, and it is quite plausible. If this was a Quintanella case or something where the many lights were called Venus or something as inappropriate I could understand, but so many just take a citizens view over a professionals for the sake of the conclusion. It' s just a little frustrating that energy is being spent on trying to promote something like this when enigmas like Portage County remain with the lacklustre Blue Book explanations. I think there is the odd case out there worth scratching ones head over, but they seem to grab the least attention, which can be both puzzling and frustrating.

Cheers.


I'm the first to say that there are all kinds of UFO records that haven't been declassified yet, even from the 1940s and 1950s, although there does seem to be a definite tendency to gradually release more information about the oldest cases, and the various investigations that were going on--and not only Blue Book, of course, but the ones that were strange enough to get kicked upstairs for more detailed analysis.  The further upstairs the investigation went, the higher the classification was likely to be.

By military standards, the Pheonix Lights incident is still a relatively recent case, so if there is any paper trail about it, then it is probably still classified.  I don't think that they just brushed this one off, though, not if there were interceptors sent up in pursuit.  That would be the most interesting thing I'd like to find out.  Was it ever identified?  How close did they get to it before it took off?

"The stuff that dreams are made of"

#50    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:44 PM

View Postquillius, on 30 May 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hey Psyche, really short of time until hopefully tomorrow.

cheers

This is what Gov. Symington said about the UFO and his attempts to get some answers about it, which have not been forthcoming:

"I witnessed a massive delta-shaped, craft silently navigate over Squaw Peak, a mountain range in Phoenix, Arizona. It was truly breathtaking. I was absolutely stunned because I was turning to the west looking for the distant Phoenix Lights.
To my astonishment this apparition appeared; this dramatically large, very distinctive leading edge with some enormous lights was traveling through the Arizona sky.

My office did make inquiries as to the origin of the craft, but to this day they remain unanswered.  Eventually the Air Force claimed responsibility stating that they dropped flares.

This is indicative of the attitude from official channels. We get explanations that fly in the face of the facts. Explanations like weather balloons, swamp gas and military flares.
I was never happy with the Air Force's silly explanation. There might very well have been military flares in the sky that evening, but what I and hundreds of others saw had nothing to do with that."


http://articles.cnn....fety?_s=PM:TECH


Symington has been most definite and insistent about this over the years, and since I didn't actually see the UFO myself I have no way of confirming or denying his account.  I don't believe that he saw anything conventional, that's for sure.

"The stuff that dreams are made of"

#51    Babe Ruth

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:51 PM

Clearly it must have been mass psychosis or hypnosis.  The pictures were all photoshopped and fabricated.

We are alone in this universe because the Bible says so.


#52    booNyzarC

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:57 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 30 May 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Clearly it must have been mass psychosis or hypnosis.  The pictures were all photoshopped and fabricated.

We are alone in this universe because the Bible says so.
What pictures?  There was only one video (by Terry Proctor) of the 8PM event that I'm aware of and no photos.

Posted Image


The Proctor video is clearly of planes in formation.  Do you have other pictures?


#53    psyche101

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:39 PM

View Postquillius, on 30 May 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hey Psyche, really short of time until hopefully tomorrow.

Anyhow check out the link for the earlier quote plus some others..

http://www.nuforc.or...ndxe199703.html

cheers


Gidday Mate

The big red flag that hits me in the face immediately is duration times. A great deal are 15-20 seconds, 1 minute, one is one second! What the heck is that? Nobody can determine if their sighting is an alien craft in one second, that beggars belief. The one that claims 3 hours says CAPTURED CRAFT BEINGS ON VIDEO I mean, that is not filling me with confidence to say the least. That list is heavily padded out with any rubbish they could find or make up.

One description that lists duration as 8 hours says:

Was MACHINED by ME ((name deleted)) at LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL labs. Triangle of BERYLIUM METAL.

Other entries

10 sec
Phx Lights orb 2 sec
Phx Lights orb   



There is this one

5 min v formation white lights to start with at long range as it got closer looking through binoculars each light was actually 2 one red one

Red lights are navigation lights on planes, so this seems to confirm Mitch stanley, and that one was 12 past 8.


and another from 8 o clock at phoenix


   LOOKED LIKE A FORMATION OF PLANES WITH THERE LANDING LIGHTS ON ONLY THERE WAS NO ENGINE NOISE FOLLOWING     

This person says five lights

5 min. approx. An object, consisting of 5 lights, in the shape of an arrow, flew right over my house.   


And this person, well, I think this one is pretty self explanatory

30 min I hope it's ours ! If not, it's definately 'someone else's'... (and FOR SURE, it's not of human origin) !   

:D

Mate, I think it's getting worse for ET!


Cheers.

Edited by psyche101, 30 May 2012 - 10:40 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#54    psyche101

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:45 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 30 May 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Clearly it must have been mass psychosis or hypnosis.  The pictures were all photoshopped and fabricated.

We are alone in this universe because the Bible says so.

This one has been doctored, but not to envisage something that is not there. Rather the opposite.


Posted Image

Edited by psyche101, 30 May 2012 - 10:45 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#55    DONTEATUS

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:48 PM

Were all light years away from any answers !

This is a Work in Progress!

#56    psyche101

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 30 May 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

Were all light years away from any answers !

No, no no, we know the answer - 42!

We just do not know how to ask the question! :P

Edited by psyche101, 31 May 2012 - 12:20 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#57    quillius

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:51 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 30 May 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Gidday Mate

The big red flag that hits me in the face immediately is duration times. A great deal are 15-20 seconds, 1 minute, one is one second! What the heck is that? Nobody can determine if their sighting is an alien craft in one second, that beggars belief. The one that claims 3 hours says CAPTURED CRAFT BEINGS ON VIDEO I mean, that is not filling me with confidence to say the least. That list is heavily padded out with any rubbish they could find or make up.

One description that lists duration as 8 hours says:

Was MACHINED by ME ((name deleted)) at LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL labs. Triangle of BERYLIUM METAL.

Other entries

10 sec
Phx Lights orb 2 sec
Phx Lights orb   



There is this one

5 min v formation white lights to start with at long range as it got closer looking through binoculars each light was actually 2 one red one

Red lights are navigation lights on planes, so this seems to confirm Mitch stanley, and that one was 12 past 8.


and another from 8 o clock at phoenix


   LOOKED LIKE A FORMATION OF PLANES WITH THERE LANDING LIGHTS ON ONLY THERE WAS NO ENGINE NOISE FOLLOWING     

This person says five lights

5 min. approx. An object, consisting of 5 lights, in the shape of an arrow, flew right over my house.   


And this person, well, I think this one is pretty self explanatory

30 min I hope it's ours ! If not, it's definately 'someone else's'... (and FOR SURE, it's not of human origin) !   

:D

Mate, I think it's getting worse for ET!


Cheers.

Hey Psyche,

thats more cherry picking than I do :)

just to say the first quote about 8 hours has nothing to do with Pheonix lights......

I do however agree that a pinch of salt is needed with many aspects of these reports.

For example the dates the reports are posted are not in the same year which straight away leaves them open to attack. I also read one of them which states that (the site itself) adjusted a time as it was obviously entered incorrectly.....any editing again leaves them exposed to guys like you/Klass :)

There is a very good site which Mcrom once provided, sadly my filing of all research to date is rather poor and I am struggling to find it.

I will keep looking and will post more soon.

I seem to be spending most of my time trawling through lots of ***** but hopefully will find the nuggets that I am sure exist.

:yes:


#58    quillius

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:07 PM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 30 May 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

I'm the first to say that there are all kinds of UFO records that haven't been declassified yet, even from the 1940s and 1950s, although there does seem to be a definite tendency to gradually release more information about the oldest cases, and the various investigations that were going on--and not only Blue Book, of course, but the ones that were strange enough to get kicked upstairs for more detailed analysis.  The further upstairs the investigation went, the higher the classification was likely to be.

By military standards, the Pheonix Lights incident is still a relatively recent case, so if there is any paper trail about it, then it is probably still classified. I don't think that they just brushed this one off, though, not if there were interceptors sent up in pursuit.  That would be the most interesting thing I'd like to find out.  Was it ever identified?  How close did they get to it before it took off?

Hey McG,

couple more links relating to the interceptors claim you may find interesting assuming you havent seem them already :)
http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/azwit.htm


The second link relates to a debate over at ATS which seems quite interesting, hevnt gone to look for it yet.

http://www.theblackv...ner,_02-15-2009)

cheers

oops this is correct link :

http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/azluke.htm

Edited by quillius, 31 May 2012 - 01:08 PM.


#59    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:30 PM

View Postquillius, on 31 May 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

Hey McG,

couple more links relating to the interceptors claim you may find interesting assuming you havent seem them already :)
http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/azwit.htm



Hi Quillus,

There were quite a few UFO sightings that night, and they actually seem to have started in Las Vegas, not Phoenix, although the original name of the Phoenix Lights has stuck.

Here's a witness who reported UFOs (or one ver big, silent UFO) over Nellis AFB in Las Vegas, which is by no means unusual since that is one of the biggest UFO hotspots of all time.  When people talk about Groom Lake, Area 51 and all that it's all on land belonging to Nellis AFB, and I have not problem at all believing that the US government is tetsing technology there that is literally out of this world.  This was on March 12. 1997, the night before the Phoenix Lights case.

Posted Image



And here was another report from Henderson, Nevada of a large, V-shaped object.  Henderson is a suburb of Las Vegas (I actually lived there about 30 years ago) and if the UFO was flyinf south or southeast, there's not a lot between there and Kingman, Arizona, which is the next place that had UFO reports.  That town is off by itself in the middle of the desert too, so the next reports came from the suburbs of Pheonix, Arizona, which is of course one of the largest cities in the country, very spread out with plenty of possible witnesses.  But there are no other large cities between Las Vegas and Pheonix along the flight path that this UFO supposedly took.


Posted Image

"The stuff that dreams are made of"

#60    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

There is also quite a variety in the eyewitness descriptions of this UFO (or UFOs) and even in the pictures and videos taken of the lights or the objects--whatever we want to call them.  It's a strange case and there's no way it can be explained by the flare drop over Pheonix, which took place at the end of he incident, not the beginning.  They do not all agree on the number of lights seen or the exact shape of the things, although there are many reports of a large, dark craft that was silent and hovering, but could also move very fast when it wanted to.

http://www.dudeman.n...up/phoenix.html

Naturally, the officials at Luke AFB, another long-time UFO hotspot, denied knowing anything about anything, but that's the standard line that's been heard about a billion times before, and means that they didn't know what it was and had to stick some kind of "explanation" on it, or they did know what it was but couldn't talk about it.

http://www.dudeman.n...up/phoenix.html

"The stuff that dreams are made of"




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