17 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

This video gets into the meat and potatoes of the Constitutional/libertarian argument against these Presidents we've been putting up with lately.  This video focuses on Obama's renewal of the NDAA, but this discussion might as well be about the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10th, or 14th Amendment or even Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution.    These are the most sacred pieces of our highest law and they are being ignored by our bureaucrats.   How much ignorance and subversion of our liberty's highest legal protections are we willing to accept?  



What is going to become of our country's future without our rule of law?    The NDAA is Grade-A moral hazard.   Stand up and defend our highest law while it still has the power enough to be defended!   Please don't turn your backs on the safeguards of our liberty!   It's time for us to draw a "line in the sand" for the American people for a change and not just the oil Oligarchs.

http://en.wikipedia....iscal_Year_2012
http://en.wikipedia...._Process_Clause

Want to live in a free country again?   I do!
http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

[ninjadude]

Yamato, on 22 January 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

This video focuses on Obama's renewal of the NDAA,

for which year, since it's "renewed" yearly and has been for many decades.

Quote

The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) is a United States federal law specifying the budget and expenditures of the United States Department of Defense. Each year's act also includes other provisions. The U.S. Congress oversees the defense budget primarily through two yearly bills: the National Defense Authorization Act and defense appropriations bills. The authorization bill determines the agencies responsible for defense, establishes funding levels, and sets the policies under which money will be spent.^[1]

https://en.wikipedia...thorization_Act

Edited by ninjadude, 22 January 2013 - 06:15 PM.

[Yamato]

ninjadude, on 22 January 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

for which year, since it's "renewed" yearly and has been for many decades.

https://en.wikipedia...thorization_Act

2012.  You didn't read the link I posted in the OP.

[ninjadude]

Yamato, on 22 January 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

What is going to become of our country's future without our rule of law?  

The 2012NDAA is a law. So you're complaining ABOUT the rule of law.

[Yamato]

ninjadude, on 23 January 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

The 2012NDAA is a law. So you're complaining ABOUT the rule of law.

You can't live obediently under contradictory rules.   The NDAA doesn't supplant or supercede the Constitution.   These high and mighty bureaucrats don't get to choose when they want to obey the Constitution and when not to.

[preacherman76]

ninjadude, on 23 January 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

The 2012NDAA is a law. So you're complaining ABOUT the rule of law.

So let me get this striaght, you are ok with the government capturing Americans and detaining them indefinitly with no due process? Please answer the question.

[ninjadude]

Yamato, on 23 January 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

You can't live obediently under contradictory rules.   The NDAA doesn't supplant or supercede the Constitution.   These high and mighty bureaucrats don't get to choose when they want to obey the Constitution and when not to.

yes you must. You do not get to decide what laws you will follow and what you will not. If you fall afoul of the NDAA, you will still get arrested and possibly incarcerated regardless of your opinions. If you don't like it, you can go thru the appeals process to the supreme court. If you have lots of cash or can get help from someone like the ACLU.

preacherman76, on 23 January 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

So let me get this striaght, you are ok with the government capturing Americans and detaining them indefinitly with no due process? Please answer the question.

no, but the law exists. You don't get to decide what laws you can ignore and those that apply.

[F3SS]

People like ninja will be the ultimate demise of the American experiment. It's hard for one person or many of us to stop this crap but just taking everything up the @*# without saying so much as ouch is exactly how you become a bltch and those who want to fundamentally transform the USA love bltches.

[AsteroidX]

I bel;ieve the NDAA was signed again this year to ensure ongoing military operations had funding despite the good possibility of deep defense cute in the fiscal debate. But yeah well see.

Most people it seems could care less wether there constitution is valid document or not as they immigrated here long after its inception and dont have the family history that puts them in the middle of the why they are written the way are and who they are there to protect. The citizenry itself. (no offense to immigrants). But if you dont have relatives that fought and died for the freedoms of the Constitution and the foundations this country stands for it likely doesnt have the same meaning then those of us that do.

Give me Liberty or Give me Death was really said folks.

[Yamato]

ninjadude, on 23 January 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

yes you must. You do not get to decide what laws you will follow and what you will not. If you fall afoul of the NDAA, you will still get arrested and possibly incarcerated regardless of your opinions. If you don't like it, you can go thru the appeals process to the supreme court. If you have lots of cash or can get help from someone like the ACLU.

no, but the law exists. You don't get to decide what laws you can ignore and those that apply.

The government now does, in theory and in practice.   You don't care?   Do you have any respect for our Bill of Rights whatsoever?   If so, explain.

Either we have Due Process in the US or we don't.   You can't have it both ways whenever some unknown goon from the bureau says so.  

Osama bin Laden is a creampuff compared to the real enemy he hatched among us and it's the enablers of tyranny in our own country that threaten us the most. I already get "help" from the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments actually.   Lots of cash not required.   If we're going to go bomb countries across the world and blame our freedom for our problems, what are we going to do with the unconstitutional government loving chickens already returned home to roost?  

If you don't like freedom, pack your bags and move somewhere where you have less of it.  But don't tread on me.   If you think that we're going to relinquish our most sacred rights so your government can go play its murder games in a sandbox somewhere and blame us for its own blowback, you are dearly misinformed.

Edited by Yamato, 23 January 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[ninjadude]

-Mr_Fess-, on 23 January 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

It's hard for one person or many of us to stop this crap but just taking everything up the @*# without saying so much as ouch

I didn't say you should be quiet. But you do not have the right to ignore law.

AsteroidX, on 23 January 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

I bel;ieve the NDAA was signed again this year to ensure ongoing military operations had funding

there is an NDAA EVERY year

[ninjadude]

Yamato, on 23 January 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

The government now does, in theory and in practice.  

yes that's true, it has that right - by law. Individuals do not.

Quote

You don't care?   Do you have any respect for our Bill of Rights whatsoever?   If so, explain.

I did not say I didn't care. I said you cannot choose what laws to abide by. It has nothing to do with the Bill of Rights. One can not "like" laws all you want. You can cry as loud as you want. But you still have to obey them until they are repealed, ignored, judged, or superceded. It's a fact of life. One you have apparently yet to understand.

Quote

Either we have Due Process in the US or we don't.   You can't have it both ways whenever some unknown goon from the bureau says so.  

Do you know what Due Process means? following the law. You don't get to choose which laws.

Quote

If you think that we're going to relinquish our most sacred rights so your government can go play its murder games in a sandbox somewhere and blame us for its own blowback, you are dearly misinformed.

again, you did not have the right to decide which laws are constitutional and you will obey,  and those you will not.  That is not in the constitution. The problem, my friend, is that you are misinformed. I really wish they taught civics in school.

[Michelle]

Hey ninja....are there any laws that you would actively protest? I mean like when I was stalked by an ex, there were no laws to protect me unless he physically attacked me. I got on my little soap box, carried petitions around and asked people to sign them to send to congress. Now there is an anti stalking law that I like to think I had something to do with.

Is there nothing you feel passionately enough about to take a stand against the government?

[AsteroidX]

I dont like the NDAA and I think defense spending needs to be cut because an enormous amount of it goes to Black Projects and crap this world has no need for from a military point of view. But I do want to ensure our troops get body armor overseas and Humvee get extra armor...So I just aint fighting that part.

You should well know my position on the Constitution and its being infringed by now. I just feel the NDAA is one of the least evils at this day in time. I would like to know where the money goes and know its not siphoned off into Black Projects but used as its suppose to to ensure front line troops have what they need.

Itleast thats my understanding.

[Yamato]

ninjadude, on 24 January 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

yes that's true, it has that right - by law. Individuals do not.



I did not say I didn't care. I said you cannot choose what laws to abide by. It has nothing to do with the Bill of Rights. One can not "like" laws all you want. You can cry as loud as you want. But you still have to obey them until they are repealed, ignored, judged, or superceded. It's a fact of life. One you have apparently yet to understand.



Do you know what Due Process means? following the law. You don't get to choose which laws.



again, you did not have the right to decide which laws are constitutional and you will obey,  and those you will not.  That is not in the constitution. The problem, my friend, is that you are misinformed. I really wish they taught civics in school.

Government doesn't have any rights.   It has powers, enumerated by the Constitution.   If there is any "right" to speak of, it's reserved for the individual.

It has everything to do with the Bill of Rights.  We cannot reconcile this contradiction.   The NDAA didn't repeal the 5th and the 14th and so it's unconstitutional.   Due Process doesn't mean "following the law".   It has a specific meaning and it's a right guaranteed to the American people.  Our government can't both guarantee something and deny it at the same time.   Liberals have this amazing capacity to pretend that the Constitution isn't in force at all times.  It doesn't lose its binding power because the President renewed an unconstitutional new version of an old law.

Of course I have "the right" to determine what is Constitutional and what isn't.   I'm doing that academically right now with my freedom of speech.   Citizens legally determine constitutionality through our courts all the time.  Take a look at the history of federal court cases in the US and understand the Constitutional bases for their decisions.  Our laws are challenged and adjusted on a regular basis.  That's the whole point of the Constitution.  To constrain the power of government and keep the power with the people.