172 replies to this topic

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

Kazahel, on 18 December 2009 - 01:23 AM, said:

So yes I think many people get confused and think shapeshifting is just a psyical thing but to me its more. And the astral side of it I believe is where it all began.  

That right there is where the problem is.  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  It's not everyone else that is confused, but rather you.
That is your definition, and not the definition widely accepted by most people in the world.  You cannot simply change the definition of things and then try to convince everyone that is the way it is because you see it that way.  To you, dreams may be real, but to most of the people in the world, they are not.  So for you to claim that dreams are reality goes against what most people know and believe to be real.  So essentially, you are making up your own reality and trying to insert it into everyone else's reality.
Here is what I found:

definitions
"Shape shifting: The ability to shape one's body into other forms."

"form: a body, esp. that of a human being."

"body: the physical structure and material substance of an animal or plant, living or dead."

So, as I have shown here, shapeshifting is the changing of a PHYSICAL form.   You may believe dreams are real, but to everyone else, they are just dreams.  
The reason I posted what I did about the flying and eating is because whatever happens in a dream is only in the dream.  Whatever happens in a dream is not reality, so claiming you can do something that you dreamed about is ridiculous.  It is just a dream, not reality.  Anyone can do anything in a dream, so to say that shapeshifting is real because people can dream about it is nonsense.  I can dream that I visited Atlantis, does that make it real??  I can dream that I jumped into the air, flew to Mars, and had lunch with the leader of an alien race.  Does that mean I can claim that all that is real??  No, because dreams are not reality, so to claim that anything is real because it happens in dreams is beyond nonsense.  If you want to believe that, fine, I do not hold that against you.  But, do not come on here and try to change the definition of reality to fit what you believe.  Reality is reality, and is not up for a change.  What you perceive is belief, not reality.

Edited by 667-Neighbor of the Beast, 18 December 2009 - 03:16 PM.

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

Dying Seraph, on 18 December 2009 - 01:56 AM, said:

Vampires eat their victims? Isn't that a cannibal?

I haven't seen anyone yet bring up PSYCHIC VAMPIRES. People that (believe) they can suck energy or emotions or life force from other people. Nothing to do with blood but just people that are annoying and drain your life force.

I believe there are people that "claim" to be vampires. I have met a few people (There is a large Vampyre scene in Hollywood) that hate being in the sun. It won't kill them but they are super sensitive to the suns rays (jokingly I call them the Irish ). I know people that drink blood using lancets to draw the blood (from willing participants) and not fangs from unwilling victims. Whether these things qualify them or not is insignificant to me. But they claim to be Vampyres.
I have  a couple of friends that feel in past lives they were vampyres and feel that it's a natural instinct in them. Whether they are nuts or perfectly sane remains to be seen I guess.  

I have yet to meet a person that calls themself a Vampyre, that actually believe themself that they could fly or shape shift in a literal sense. In a metaphorical sense however yes.

Yes, actually, I tackled this earlier.  A vampire, according to all legends, NEEDS to drink blood in order to survive.  These people do not need it, they CHOOSE to drink blood, which, by definition, makes them cannibals, not vampires.  
And as far as the psychic vampires, I tackled that too.  These people do not literally feed off of other peoples emotions or life force.  Where I come from, they are simply called "drama queens" and have self esteem issues.  They feel so bad about themselves or their lives, that they go out of their way to make others feel horrible, which makes them feel better.  They are not feeding off of these peoples emotions, but rather seeing someone else feel as bad as they do gives them an ego boost, and makes them feel better about themselves for a little while.  It has nothing to do with hunger, but rather low self image.

[Kazahel]

667-Neighbor of the Beast, on 18 December 2009 - 03:15 PM, said:

That right there is where the problem is.  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  It's not everyone else that is confused, but rather you.
That is your definition, and not the definition widely accepted by most people in the world.

lol. For starters those definitions I used were not made up by me. I found them here.. http://dictionary.ba...m/shapeshifting

And there was more said about astral shifting being shapeshifting than physical. So it seems the definition is being corrected over time as things do.

Quote

To you, dreams may be real, but to most of the people in the world, they are not.  So for you to claim that dreams are reality goes against what most people know and believe to be real.

You still fail to get it. Of course dreams are real otherwise people would not have them. So dreams are a fact.. its a fact that dreaming is real. And again.. I'm not sure where I exactly claimed dreams are 'real' like what you are trying to make out. Maybe you should quote me where I said that because I dont think i did. I basically said that people in the past probably had shapeshifting dreams and told others who then made up the name 'werewolf'(and made up chinese whisper stories about them).. so if you asked them are they a 'werewolf' the answer would be yes because they made up the name for the astral/dreaming shifting into the wolf in the first place.

Quote

The reason I posted what I did about the flying and eating is because whatever happens in a dream is only in the dream.  Whatever happens in a dream is not reality, so claiming you can do something that you dreamed about is ridiculous.

Show me where I did that? You claim I did but I dont think I did. So go back and quote me please so I can understand where your coming from. Because I think this is still more a case of you hearing only what you want to hear.

Also I've had dreams which I think are astral travelling and I've seen things that have happened in dreams that have come true about 12 hours later in real life. So sometimes I think we can dream of future things. I can give examples but I'm trying to keep this short and of course, I'm not the only one that thinks this.

[Kazahel]

667-Neighbor of the Beast, on 18 December 2009 - 03:23 PM, said:

Yes, actually, I tackled this earlier.  A vampire, according to all legends, NEEDS to drink blood in order to survive.  These people do not need it, they CHOOSE to drink blood, which, by definition, makes them cannibals, not vampires.  
And as far as the psychic vampires, I tackled that too.  These people do not literally feed off of other peoples emotions or life force.  Where I come from, they are simply called "drama queens" and have self esteem issues.  They feel so bad about themselves or their lives, that they go out of their way to make others feel horrible, which makes them feel better.  They are not feeding off of these peoples emotions, but rather seeing someone else feel as bad as they do gives them an ego boost, and makes them feel better about themselves for a little while.  It has nothing to do with hunger, but rather low self image.

So are you a psychic vampire?

[Stormcrow]

Just as a clarification here, vampires don't drink or need to drink blood to survive. They're not alive to begin with, so doing something for survival is pointless. They eat portions of their victim, which would have been killed out of rage, as would have been their punishment for sinning in their first life.

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

Kazahel, on 19 December 2009 - 03:11 AM, said:

lol. For starters those definitions I used were not made up by me. I found them here.. http://dictionary.ba...m/shapeshifting
I did not make mine up either.  Copied from the web:
shape shifting - The ability to shape one's body into other forms. Can range from something as simple as a change of appearance, to something as involved as ...
wellmet.sigil.net/glossary.htm

And there was more said about astral shifting being shapeshifting than physical. So it seems the definition is being corrected over time as things do.

I have studies both dreams and shapeshifting lores for years, and believe me, shapeshifting is MUCH more accepted as a PHYSICAL phenomenon as it is an astral phenomenon, because, once again, what happens astrally, or even in dreams, is common accepted as something that happens in a persons mind, not in reality.  If something does not happen in reality, and only in someone head, it did not actually happen.  That person just imagined or dreamed that it happened.  I am sorry if this goes against what you want reality to be, but that is the way reality works.  What happens in your mind is not reality, and therefore, did not actually happen.


You still fail to get it. Of course dreams are real otherwise people would not have them. So dreams are a fact.. its a fact that dreaming is real. And again.. I'm not sure where I exactly claimed dreams are 'real' like what you are trying to make out. Maybe you should quote me where I said that because I dont think i did. I basically said that people in the past probably had shapeshifting dreams and told others who then made up the name 'werewolf'(and made up chinese whisper stories about them).. so if you asked them are they a 'werewolf' the answer would be yes because they made up the name for the astral/dreaming shifting into the wolf in the first place.
OK, obviously I have to spell this out for you.  OK DREAMS themselves are real, but what HAPPENS IN DREAMS is NOT.  I have made that perfectly clear.
You have claimed several times on this thread that what happens in dreams are real.  You have claimed to have shapeshifted because you dreamed you did so.  You did not shapeshift, you simply dreamed about it.  If you dream that you did something, that does not mean you can claim you actually did that.  Like I said before, if I had a dream that I could fly, does that mean I can come on here and tell everyone that I can fly??  No, it would have all been in my head.  You did not shapeshift, it was all in your head.  You dreamed about it, but did not actually achieve it.  So, changing the definition to try and make it match what you want it to (saying that shapeshifting is something that is done in dreams) is just ridiculous.  You did not shapeshift, you merely had a dream.




Show me where I did that? You claim I did but I dont think I did. So go back and quote me please so I can understand where your coming from. Because I think this is still more a case of you hearing only what you want to hear.
Quote:Shapeshifting is possible just not how most tend to assume
Quote:Thats how I kinda think about it anyway because I've shapeshifted heaps of times in lucid dreams
Quote:And doing it in dreams means you are shapeshifting in dreams. I dont understand how you can say that means nothing, usually the ones who say that kinda stuff are simply the ones who have never experienced it. I think they call it dream shifting and imo it is where shapeshifting(and flying)stories have come from. I think thats how some of the native americans shifted too.. they did it in dreams and found their animals through dreams as well.

Also I've had dreams which I think are astral travelling and I've seen things that have happened in dreams that have come true about 12 hours later in real life. So sometimes I think we can dream of future things. I can give examples but I'm trying to keep this short and of course, I'm not the only one that thinks this.
And you have said it right here.  You believe that what happens in dreams are real, or will become real.  I'm sorry that you think this, but most people in the world do not. So, again, trying to redefine things to fit your beleifs is just ridiculous.  Dreams are nothing more than dreams.  You could give all the examples you want, but how many people are going to believe that you dream about the future.  How many people on here claim that, and how many have been able to prove it??  
Sorry to tell you, but what happens in dreams is just simply in your head.  

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

Kazahel, on 19 December 2009 - 03:14 AM, said:

So are you a psychic vampire?

Sorry, I am not the one going around trying to convince everyone that I am some superspecial human being who can tell the future and change into animals.  Usually that's what the so called psychic vampires do, is just try to convince everyone that they are special, because they want the attention.

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

Ebonykrow, on 19 December 2009 - 05:37 AM, said:

Just as a clarification here, vampires don't drink or need to drink blood to survive. They're not alive to begin with, so doing something for survival is pointless. They eat portions of their victim, which would have been killed out of rage, as would have been their punishment for sinning in their first life.

Well, first of all, vampires do not exist at all, period.  But, where do you get that they eat their victims??  All original legends that date back past 10 years say that vampires drink blood.  I have never heard of anything outside recent hollywood developments that say otherwise.

[Stormcrow]

667-Neighbor of the Beast, on 20 December 2009 - 08:32 PM, said:

Well, first of all, vampires do not exist at all, period.  But, where do you get that they eat their victims??  All original legends that date back past 10 years say that vampires drink blood.  I have never heard of anything outside recent hollywood developments that say otherwise.

Doesn't matter if they don't exist, they were once believed to, and I think that disrespecting the mythology is disrespect to the people who once believed it.

But... ten years? That's Hollywood vampirism, and it's completely ridiculous. Hollywood vampires are so far from the original myth it's disgusting. If you're going to reference Hollywood vampires, you might as well use Underworld and Twilight as your source for all vampire-related information! The media plays on the romanticism of vampires which, thanks to Victorian-era poems, has become something of a fad these days.

The "vampire" of Slavic lore was born in the 1600s, that's a great deal longer than ten years ago. I gathered most of my information from an old book I'd checked out at a library four-five years ago. It was probably published early 1800s, beest I recall. It was quite an old book. It's since been discarded from that library, but I've been on a search for it ever since I returned it, but as my luck should have it, every book I've ever wanted to read a second time I've never been able to get my hands back on it.

'Course, I'm not here to force that ideal, but I will enforce it. I can't tolerate Hollywood vampirism, and I just find it ridiculous that a wonderful myth such as this has been buried thanks to people wanting to turn something horrible into something beautiful. You see it everywhere. What's one truly evil creature that mankind hasn't tried to romanticize?

Edited by Ebonykrow, 20 December 2009 - 09:59 PM.

[Drago]

Ebonykrow, on 20 December 2009 - 09:58 PM, said:

Doesn't matter if they don't exist, they were once believed to, and I think that disrespecting the mythology is disrespect to the people who once believed it.

Honestly, I think of it as an evolving mythology.  Mythological purity is all well and good, but over time any myth will change, it will evolve.  Look at Greek/Roman mythology.  The people themselves were making heavy changes almost as they went.

The Slavic people and the vampir myth were the same way.  I'm certain that over the course of the evolution of the vampir myth from concept to the point where it could be written down and 'set in stone', it changed.

And we argued about this when I first came to UM.  Pretty much the same discussion.  XD  I was fine with categorizing similar creatures (Animated corpses that steal blood/life force/will to live,) across multiple mythologies as 'vampires', and you were saying only the medieval Christian version counted 'cus they invented the tern 'vampire' and changed the concept of the animated corpse eating people way back when to help maintain control of the people through superstitious fear.

And the vampire myth is changing now.  It's being played with, retooled to provide a continuing element of fright and danger to modern-day people to who the initial creatures may not remain as frightening.

Edited by Drago, 20 December 2009 - 11:11 PM.

[Kazahel]

667 said:

You have claimed several times on this thread that what happens in dreams are real. You have claimed to have shapeshifted because you dreamed you did so. You did not shapeshift, you simply dreamed about it.

Yes I claim I have shapeshifted in dreams which many people believe counts as shapeshifting(and I dont think I claimed anything else...), thats why there is that definition on it. You can call it dreamshifting if you like but I believe dreamshifting was where the original stories of werewolves came from.. and where the stories of shapeshifters came from.

667 said:

If you dream that you did something, that does not mean you can claim you actually did that. Like I said before, if I had a dream that I could fly, does that mean I can come on here and tell everyone that I can fly??

Well when I read about the stories of witches who would fly naked at night I think they mean them basically astral travelling. Which means they did kinda 'fly'.. just not fly how you like to want to believe is only possible.

667 said:

No, it would have all been in my head. You did not shapeshift, it was all in your head. You dreamed about it, but did not actually achieve it. So, changing the definition to try and make it match what you want it to (saying that shapeshifting is something that is done in dreams) is just ridiculous. You did not shapeshift, you merely had a dream.

Quote

Shapeshifting
A very esoteric practice involving changing the human form. This can be practiced while on the astral plane, this alone is a great accomplishment. It is said that one can also shapeshift on the physical plane, though documented proof of this is nonexistent. Few books are published on the subject as it is an art mainly for certain people, and teachers prefer to find these people and teach them their art secretively rather than let the public know their ways.

And again, I didnt change the definition myself.. its just what I found.

Kazahel said:

Also I've had dreams which I think are astral travelling and I've seen things that have happened in dreams that have come true about 12 hours later in real life. So sometimes I think we can dream of future things. I can give examples but I'm trying to keep this short and of course, I'm not the only one that thinks this.

667 said:

And you have said it right here. You believe that what happens in dreams are real, or will become real.

Yes I did just then, but I had not earlier at all(if so quote me). Because me saying I have shapeshifted comes under the DEFINITION of what shapeshifting is. Obviously shapeshifting isnt just physical otherwise there would be no definitions regarding the astral.

Edited by Kazahel, 21 December 2009 - 02:54 AM.

[Kazahel]

667-Neighbor of the Beast, on 20 December 2009 - 08:29 PM, said:

Sorry, I am not the one going around trying to convince everyone that I am some superspecial human being who can tell the future and change into animals.  Usually that's what the so called psychic vampires do, is just try to convince everyone that they are special, because they want the attention.

I'm just sharing my EXPERIENCE. I'm sorry if it pains you that some of us have them, but that doesnt mean I'm a 'psychic vampire'..

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

Kazahel, on 21 December 2009 - 02:52 AM, said:

I'm just sharing my EXPERIENCE. I'm sorry if it pains you that some of us have them, but that doesnt mean I'm a 'psychic vampire'..

Me neither, but you were the one that posed the question.

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

Kazahel, on 21 December 2009 - 02:43 AM, said:

Yes I claim I have shapeshifted in dreams which many people believe counts as shapeshifting(and I dont think I claimed anything else...), thats why there is that definition on it. You can call it dreamshifting if you like but I believe dreamshifting was where the original stories of werewolves came from.. and where the stories of shapeshifters came from.
I am not debating the origin of the legends of werewolves, but rather your ridiculous claim that what you dream is real.  Once again, you did not shapeshift, you dreamed of shapeshifting, and the fact that you cannot distinguish between the two tell me allot.  


Well when I read about the stories of witches who would fly naked at night I think they mean them basically astral travelling. Which means they did kinda 'fly'.. just not fly how you like to want to believe is only possible.
So now you are trying to tell me that people who have dreamed of flying can actually now claim that they can fly??  Hell, what do we need pilots for then??  Everyone should have enough miles to qualify to fly themselves!!


And again, I didnt change the definition myself.. its just what I found.Yes, but it is not the commonly accepted definition, just the definition created by people who live under the same delusions as yourself.  



Yes I did just then, but I had not earlier at all(if so quote me). Because me saying I have shapeshifted comes under the DEFINITION of what shapeshifting is. Obviously shapeshifting isnt just physical otherwise there would be no definitions regarding the astral.U just showed you, what more do I need to do??  I have shown you that your beliefs are not reality as you like to think.  Dreams are not real.  What happens in dreams are only figments of your imagination.  You cannot claim to actually have done what you dream about.  It is your imagination, and this has been proven by science.

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

x3attack, on 20 December 2009 - 09:58 PM, said:

Doesn't matter if they don't exist, they were once believed to, and I think that disrespecting the mythology is disrespect to the people who once believed it.

But... ten years? That's Hollywood vampirism, and it's completely ridiculous. Hollywood vampires are so far from the original myth it's disgusting. If you're going to reference Hollywood vampires, you might as well use Underworld and Twilight as your source for all vampire-related information! The media plays on the romanticism of vampires which, thanks to Victorian-era poems, has become something of a fad these days.

The "vampire" of Slavic lore was born in the 1600s, that's a great deal longer than ten years ago. I gathered most of my information from an old book I'd checked out at a library four-five years ago. It was probably published early 1800s, beest I recall. It was quite an old book. It's since been discarded from that library, but I've been on a search for it ever since I returned it, but as my luck should have it, every book I've ever wanted to read a second time I've never been able to get my hands back on it.

'Course, I'm not here to force that ideal, but I will enforce it. I can't tolerate Hollywood vampirism, and I just find it ridiculous that a wonderful myth such as this has been buried thanks to people wanting to turn something horrible into something beautiful. You see it everywhere. What's one truly evil creature that mankind hasn't tried to romanticize?

I have never heard of a vampire supposedly eating their victims, except in the last few years in movies, which is why I brought up hollywood.  I would like to know what book that was that you read that in.  Please, also realize, that just because you read it in one book does not mean that you should discount all the other tales about vampires only living on blood.