135 replies to this topic

[PuffDragon]

I was watching a documentary on the dead sea scrolls, and it was talking about how the differant sects of judism spread. And how there were different offshoots of christianity. For example some followed the book of Paul, while others followed the book of joeseph. (forgive my spelling and butchery of english)

Anyways I could be wrong but I believe the man speaking about the scrolls mentioned that Islam was a christian sect in the begining. But that they followed the old testament.

If im totally wrong and way off feel free to educate me.. I'll link the video.

[and then]

Judaism predates Christianity by several thousand years and Christianity predates Islam by several hundred years(about 600 I think).  I have never heard that Islam was an offshoot of a Christian sect.  Muhammed was clear that the other two religions were "people of the book" (the OT)
Today when you hear a Muslim say "Allah Hu Akhbar" they are not speaking of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  They call there god allah and are saying he is GREATEST of other gods.  Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon I believe.  I'm no scholar but I do know that Muslims do NOT pray to the same God as Jews and Christians.

[sutemi]

Hi PD, I not so sure he saying Islam was a Christian sect. Iam reading his book 'James the brother of Jesus' and I can't hope to explain all his theories in a post but what I am getting from it is that after the death ofJesus his brother James took over in Jerusalem and was a strict Jew as was Jesus and  the people that had stored the Dead sea scrolls, this fact is referred to in the 'Acts' where Paul writes that he has been called to Jerusalem to see James about Pauls converting of non-Jews,etc. He then shows that James' Christianity spread east and Pauline Christianity spread west. James religion was strict and required Ritual Bathing like the people at Qumran, also remember Jesus was baptised with 'water' by his teacher John the Baptist! James' Christianity spread right down into Arabia and Mohamed may have come across it and been influenced by it, there are bathing rituals in Islam. I highly recommend the book I am enjoying it, it covers so much, but I don't think Christians or Jews like him at all as he shows again and again faults in their religious texts. Don't forget to watch all 25 parts of Eisenman on the rocks!

Edited by sutemi, 22 January 2012 - 03:11 PM.

[PuffDragon]

Wow, thanks for your replies. I wasn't quite sure what he was explaining. I was very disappointed when he talked about how they were excavated. Their could have been something really wild in there.

I find it fascinating how all 3 religions share some of the same scriptures.

[Beckys_Mom]

I personally feel it did copy a lot from the Christian bible.. But that is just my own opinion ...Copy cat faiths have been going on for a long time

[and then]

PuffDragon, on 22 January 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Wow, thanks for your replies. I wasn't quite sure what he was explaining. I was very disappointed when he talked about how they were excavated. Their could have been something really wild in there.

I find it fascinating how all 3 religions share some of the same scriptures.

Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth before their last prophet the "Mahdi"  He will descend bodily near the city of Damascus, Syria.
They also believe Jesus never died on the cross and that He never claimed to be God.
They say he will kill all swine and "break the crosses".  He will also act as Mahdi's executioner of all who will not submit to Islam.

[Rlyeh]

and then, on 22 January 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Today when you hear a Muslim say "Allah Hu Akhbar" they are not speaking of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  They call there god allah and are saying he is GREATEST of other gods.  Allah is a pagan god of the crescent moon I believe.  I'm no scholar but I do know that Muslims do NOT pray to the same God as Jews and Christians.

Allah means 'the god'.

By your logic Jews and Christians worship a pagan god, El, which means god or deity and used in both the Bible and ancient polytheist Semitic religions.

Edited by Rlyeh, 22 January 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[hetrodoxly]

Rlyeh, on 22 January 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Allah means 'the god'.

By your logic Jews and Christians worship a pagan god, El, which means god or deity and used in both the Bible and ancient polytheist Semitic religions.

Allah is an Arabic boys name, it's not unusual to name a child after a deity but who would call their son God? Mohammed's father Abd Allāh (servant of Allah) worshipped in the pre Islamic Kaaba containing many deities, which "god" was he named after?

[Beckys_Mom]

hetrodoxly, on 22 January 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Allah is an Arabic boys name, it's not unusual to name a child after a deity but who would call their son God?

Anyone naming them Allah...... Because Allah does mean God

[hetrodoxly]

Beckys_Mom, on 22 January 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Anyone naming them Allah...... Because Allah does mean God

I'm putting up a reasonable argument that it doesn't, just saying "it is cus it is"   isn't an argument, don't link me to a site confirming your post because i can link you to many refuting your claim.

[FLOMBIE]

There is no argument, as 'allah' is the Arabic word for 'God'. And I don't need a site for my 'claim', any native speaker of any Arabic dialect can confirm this.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 22 January 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[hetrodoxly]

FLOMBIE, on 22 January 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

There is no argument, as 'allah' is the Arabic word for 'God'. And I don't need a site for my 'claim', any native speaker of any Arabic dialect can confirm this.

Yes it is now and all Muslims will claim this to be true, tell me who Mohammeds father Abd Allāh (servant of Allah) was named after in a pre monotheist mecca?

[Rlyeh]

hetrodoxly, on 22 January 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

I'm putting up a reasonable argument that it doesn't, just saying "it is cus it is"   isn't an argument, don't link me to a site confirming your post because i can link you to many refuting your claim.

Its Arabic romanized, Al- (the) Lah (god/deity)

Edited by Rlyeh, 23 January 2012 - 05:56 AM.

[Beckys_Mom]

hetrodoxly, on 22 January 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

I'm putting up a reasonable argument that it doesn't, just saying "it is cus it is"  

Who said it was an argument?  I saw no argument or any real point from yourself....It is FACT.. I do not need to link you to anything you wish to avoid.. facts are fact like it......................or not..

Quote

    isn't an argument, don't link me to a site confirming your post because i can link you to many refuting your claim.              

Iti s widely accepted as God by everyone else including Muslims ..I do not care what you feel the name comes from.. It serves of no interest to me..

Besides why derail a thread that is about Islam being an offshoot of Christianity?? You cannot refute that?   That is IF you fully disagree with the OP...If not.. who cares?  it's your choice.. But I do not want to hear anything more about a name that has nothing to do with this thread

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 23 January 2012 - 11:00 AM.

[hetrodoxly]

Beckys_Mom, on 23 January 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

I do not care what you feel the name comes from.. It serves of no interest to me..

You joined in the argument on my post? Women!