Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 5 votes

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


  • Please log in to reply
5884 replies to this topic

#2956    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:14 PM

View PostApol, on 19 March 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I don't think so - the verbum in the sentence is gvngon. In Norwegian we would say: "Sjømennene dro så føre til Dênnemarka".
I think it is about the word be-fore (fore like in foresee). Then the meaning will also come into place.

I hope you understand, that the OLB text is a word-for-word translation from a 19th c. Dutch or Frisian text to some sort of Old Frisian using a simplified grammar.

Here is an example:

As [Als] tha [de] bêda [beide] nêva [neven] -t-[het] althus [aldus] navt [niet] ênes [eens (1)] wrde [worden] koste [konden], gvng [ging] Tünis [Teunis] to [toe] aend [en] stek [stak] en[een] râde [rode] fône [vaan, vlag] in [in] -t [het] strând [strand], aend [en] Inka [Inka] êne [een] blâwe [blauwe]. Thêr [Daar] aefter [na] macht [mocht] jahwêder [een ieder (2)] kjasa [kiezen], hwam [wie] ek [elk, vergelijk hierna ekkorum = elkaar] folgja [volgen] wilde [wilde], aend [en] wonder [wonder], by [bij] Inka [Inka] thêr [die, ook: daar] en [een] gryns (3) [weerzin] hêde [had] vmbe [omme] tha [de] kaeningar [koningen] fon [van] Findas [Finda’s] folk [volk] to [te] thjanja [dienen], hlipon [liepen] tha [de] mâsta [meeste] Finna [Finnen] aend [en] Mâgjara [Magyaren] ovir [over]. As [Als] hja [zij] nw [nu] thaet [dat, het] folk [volk] tellath [(ge)teld] aend [en] tha [de] skêpa [schepen] thêr [daar] nêi [na, naar] dêlath [(ver)deeld] hêde [hadden], tha [dan] skêdon [scheidden] tha [de] flâta [vloten] fon [van] ekkorum [elkaar, zie ek = elk]; fon [van] nêf [neef] Tünis [Teunis] is [is] aefternêi [nadien, daarna] tâl [= taal of teken] kêmen [(ge)komen], fon [van] nêf [neef] Inka [Inka] ninmer [= nin mer = niet een, geen (taal of teken) meer].


(1) Ênes wordt ook als ênis geschreven en ook omgezet in ynes in de betekenis van eens = op een dag, behandeld als een (oude) negatief zoals thes nachtis = 's nachts, thes mornes = 's morgens, thes middeis = 's middags, thes ewendes = 's avonds, deis = daags, allerweikes = allerweegs, vrmites = vermits, unenes = oneens, jahwelikes = jewelks, jerlikes, jerlikis = jaarlijks, enz. Bijzonder: nachtis and untidis = bij nacht en ontij, zelfs: unmenis = onmens en aefterbaekis = achterbaks.
(2) jahwêder = jeweder = eenieder, in Sachsenspiegel, Sachsische Landrecht
(3) gryns vgl. grijnsaard = knorrepot (ca. 1864), d.i. met tegenzin doen.

Edited by Knul, 19 March 2013 - 07:21 PM.


#2957    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostKnul, on 19 March 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

I hope you understand, that the OLB text is a word-for-word translation from a 19th c. Dutch or Frisian text to some sort of Old Frisian using a simplified grammar.

And I agree with you.

Isn't it "amazing" (NOT) that we Dutch can read the OLB like it was written in our own language? OK, some words we have to look up in an Old Frisian dictionary, but the word order is 100 % similar to our modern Dutch or to 19th century Dutch.

And any scrap of early medieval Germanic text we have is always in a different word order.

I won't believe for a second that we Dutch speak a 2600 years old language.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 March 2013 - 07:56 PM.


#2958    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:31 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 March 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

If you click on the link in that post of mine, and scroll down, you'll see your post where you agree with me. But that was in  2011...

I once had a colleague  called "E. van Leipsig".. but she didn't come from Leipzig (Germany). Her familie had lived in the Netherlands for ages.

I said: could be. I have not found Lemego between the Frisian lands, though the ending -go or -ga is typical Frisian like Alder-ga. I don't think Wodin lived with his parents in Lemgo, but in the E-muthon area. My analysis of Lumkamakja was purely linguistic. Personally I have not yet left the idea about Helgoland. OLB tells us, that Wodan has been transformed to a god.

Edited by Knul, 19 March 2013 - 07:41 PM.


#2959    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostKnul, on 19 March 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

I said: could be. I have not found Lemego between the Frisian lands, though the ending -go or -ga is typical Frisian like Alder-ga. I don't think Wodin lived with his parents in Lemgo, but in the E-muthon area. My analysis of Lumkamakja was purely linguistic. Personally I have not yet left the idea about Helgoland.

OK, then Lemego has nothing to do with Emden or Lumka-makia.

And that was what I was trying to point out to you.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 March 2013 - 07:55 PM.


#2960    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:42 PM

Word order (modern Dutch and the OLB language):

Okke min svn.

-1- Thissa boka mot i mith lif aend sêle wârja.
-2- Se vmbifattath thju skêdnise fon vs êle folk, âk fon vsa êthlum.
-3- Vrlêden jêr haeb ik tham ut-er flod hred tolik mith thi aend thinra moder.
-4- Tha hja wêron wet wrden; thêr thrvch gvngon hja aefternei vrdarva.



Okke, mijn zoon

-1- Deze boeken moet je met lijf ende ziel (be)waren.
-2- Ze omvatten die (ge)schiedenis van ons hele volk, ook van onze ouderen.
-3- Verleden jaar heb ik ze (EN: "them") uit'r vloed (ge)red te(ge)lijk met jou (GER: Du/Dich) ende jouw (GER: deine) moeder.
-4- Daa(r ) zij waren nat (EN: wet) (ge)worden; daar door gingen zij daarna ("achterna") verderven (modern Dutch: BEderven).


.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 March 2013 - 07:57 PM.


#2961    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:01 PM

View PostKnul, on 19 March 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

I said: could be. I have not found Lemego between the Frisian lands, though the ending -go or -ga is typical Frisian like Alder-ga. I don't think Wodin lived with his parents in Lemgo, but in the E-muthon area. My analysis of Lumkamakja was purely linguistic. Personally I have not yet left the idea about Helgoland. OLB tells us, that Wodan has been transformed to a god.

But Odin/Wodin/Wodan was not the 'god' venerated on Helgoland.

It was  Fo(r )seti.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forseti

.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 March 2013 - 08:03 PM.


#2962    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:17 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 March 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

But Odin/Wodin/Wodan was not the 'god' venerated on Helgoland.

It was  Fo(r )seti.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forseti

.
Thanks.


#2963    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,655 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

  • I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious. ~ Einstein

Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:26 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 March 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:



And I agree with you.

Isn't it "amazing" (NOT) that we Dutch can read the OLB like it was written in our own language? OK, some words we have to look up in an Old Frisian dictionary, but the word order is 100 % similar to our modern Dutch or to 19th century Dutch.

And any scrap of early medieval Germanic text we have is always in a different word order.

I won't believe for a second that we Dutch speak a 2600 years old language.



.

whereas our most ancient writings are as easy to read as those that were written yesterday.



In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2964    Apol

Apol

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 157 posts
  • Joined:02 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hønefoss, Norway

Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:10 AM

View PostKnul, on 19 March 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

I hope you understand, that the OLB text is a word-for-word translation from a 19th c. Dutch or Frisian text to some sort of Old Frisian using a simplified grammar.

Here is an example:

As [Als] tha [de] bêda [beide] nêva [neven] -t-[het] althus [aldus] navt [niet] ênes [eens (1)] wrde [worden] koste [konden], gvng [ging] Tünis [Teunis] to [toe] aend [en] stek [stak] en[een] râde [rode] fône [vaan, vlag] in [in] -t [het] strând [strand], aend [en] Inka [Inka] êne [een] blâwe [blauwe]. Thêr [Daar] aefter [na] macht [mocht] jahwêder [een ieder (2)] kjasa [kiezen], hwam [wie] ek [elk, vergelijk hierna ekkorum = elkaar] folgja [volgen] wilde [wilde], aend [en] wonder [wonder], by [bij] Inka [Inka] thêr [die, ook: daar] en [een] gryns (3) [weerzin] hêde [had] vmbe [omme] tha [de] kaeningar [koningen] fon [van] Findas [Finda’s] folk [volk] to [te] thjanja [dienen], hlipon [liepen] tha [de] mâsta [meeste] Finna [Finnen] aend [en] Mâgjara [Magyaren] ovir [over]. As [Als] hja [zij] nw [nu] thaet [dat, het] folk [volk] tellath [(ge)teld] aend [en] tha [de] skêpa [schepen] thêr [daar] nêi [na, naar] dêlath [(ver)deeld] hêde [hadden], tha [dan] skêdon [scheidden] tha [de] flâta [vloten] fon [van] ekkorum [elkaar, zie ek = elk]; fon [van] nêf [neef] Tünis [Teunis] is [is] aefternêi [nadien, daarna] tâl [= taal of teken] kêmen [(ge)komen], fon [van] nêf [neef] Inka [Inka] ninmer [= nin mer = niet een, geen (taal of teken) meer].


(1) Ênes wordt ook als ênis geschreven en ook omgezet in ynes in de betekenis van eens = op een dag, behandeld als een (oude) negatief zoals thes nachtis = 's nachts, thes mornes = 's morgens, thes middeis = 's middags, thes ewendes = 's avonds, deis = daags, allerweikes = allerweegs, vrmites = vermits, unenes = oneens, jahwelikes = jewelks, jerlikes, jerlikis = jaarlijks, enz. Bijzonder: nachtis and untidis = bij nacht en ontij, zelfs: unmenis = onmens en aefterbaekis = achterbaks.
(2) jahwêder = jeweder = eenieder, in Sachsenspiegel, Sachsische Landrecht
(3) gryns vgl. grijnsaard = knorrepot (ca. 1864), d.i. met tegenzin doen.


As [Som] tha [de] bêda [begge] nêva [nevøer] -t-althus [således] navt [ikke] ênes [ens] wrde [bli] koste [kunne], gvng [ganget/gikk] Tünis [Tunis] to [til] aend [og] stek [stakk] en [en] râde [rød] fône [fane] in [i] -t strând [stranda], aend [og] Inka [Inka] êne [en] blâwe [blå]. Thêr [Der] aefter [etter] macht [maktet/kunne] jahwêder [enhver] kjasa [keise/velge], hwam [hvem] ek [hver] folgja [følge] wilde [ville], aend [og] wonder [under], by [ved/til] Inka [Inka] thêr [der/som] en [en/et] gryns [’grin’] hêde [hadde] vmbe [om/for] tha [de] kaeningar [konger] fon [fra] Findas [Findas] folk [folk] to [å] thjanja [tjene], hlipon [løp] tha [de] mâsta [meste/fleste] Finna [finner] aend [og] Mâgjara [magjarere] ovir [over]. As [Som] hja [de] nw [nå] thaet [det] folk [folk] tellath [tellet] aend [og] tha [de] skêpa [skip] thêr [der] nêi [etter] dêlath [delt] hêde [hadde], tha [da] skêdon [skiltes] tha [de] flâta [flåter] fon [fra] ekkorum [hverandre]; fon [fra] nêf [nevø] Tünis [Tunis] is [er] aefternêi [etterpå] tâl [tale/beskjed] kêmen [kommet], fon [fra] nêf [nevø] Inka [Inka] ninmer [ingen mer].

Edited by Apol, 20 March 2013 - 04:54 AM.


#2965    Apol

Apol

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 157 posts
  • Joined:02 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hønefoss, Norway

Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:48 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 March 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Word order (modern Dutch and the OLB language):

Okke min svn.

-1- Thissa boka mot i mith lif aend sêle wârja.
-2- Se vmbifattath thju skêdnise fon vs êle folk, âk fon vsa êthlum.
-3- Vrlêden jêr haeb ik tham ut-er flod hred tolik mith thi aend thinra moder.
-4- Tha hja wêron wet wrden; thêr thrvch gvngon hja aefternei vrdarva.



Okke, mijn zoon

-1- Deze boeken moet je met lijf ende ziel (be)waren.
-2- Ze omvatten die (ge)schiedenis van ons hele volk, ook van onze ouderen.
-3- Verleden jaar heb ik ze (EN: "them") uit'r vloed (ge)red te(ge)lijk met jou (GER: Du/Dich) ende jouw (GER: deine) moeder.
-4- Daa(r ) zij waren nat (EN: wet) (ge)worden; daar door gingen zij daarna ("achterna") verderven (modern Dutch: BEderven).


.

Okke, min svn,
Okke, min sønn, (Norwegian)
Okke, min sønn, (better language)

Thissa boka mot i mith lif aend sêle wârja.
Disse bøkene må dere med liv og sjel verge (Norwegian).
Disse bøkene må dere verge/verne med liv og sjel (better language).

Se vmbifattath thju skêdnise fon vs êle folk, âk fon vsa êthlum.
De omfatter historia til vårt hele folk og til våre ætlinger (Norwegian).
De omfatter historia til hele vårt folk og til våre ætlinger (better language).

Vrlêden jêr haeb ik tham ut-er flod hred tolik mith thi aend thinra moder
Forleden år hadde jeg dem ut fra floden reddet, tillike med deg og din moder (Norwegian)
Forleden år reddet jeg dem fra oversvømmelsen, sammen med deg og din mor (better language)

Tha hja wêron wet wrden; thêr thrvch gvngon hja aefternei vrdarva.
da de var våte vorden; der igjennom ganget de etterpå fordervet (Norwegian).
da de var blitt våte; derfor gikk de etterpå i oppløsning (better language).

Edited by Apol, 20 March 2013 - 05:02 AM.


#2966    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:00 AM

View PostApol, on 20 March 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

As [Som] tha [de] bêda [begge] nêva [nevøer] -t-althus [således] navt [ikke] ênes [ens] wrde [bli] koste [kunne], gvng [gikk] Tünis [Tunis] to [til] aend [og] stek [stakk] en [en] râde [rød] fône [fane] in [i] -t strând [stranda], aend [og] Inka [Inka] êne [en] blâwe [blå]. Thêr [Der] aefter [etter] macht [maktet/kunne] jahwêder [enhver] kjasa [keise/velge], hwam [hvem] ek [hver] folgja [følge] wilde [ville], aend [og] wonder [under], by [ved/til] Inka [Inka] thêr [der/som] en [en/et] gryns [’grin’] hêde [hadde] vmbe [om/for] tha [de] kaeningar [konger] fon [fra] Findas [Findas] folk [folk] to [å] thjanja [tjene], hlipon [løp] tha [de] mâsta [meste/fleste] Finna [finner] aend [og] Mâgjara [magjarere] ovir [over]. As [Som] hja [de] nw [nå] thaet [det] folk [folk] tellath [tellet] aend [og] tha [de] skêpa [skip] thêr [der] nêi [etter] dêlath [delt] hêde [hadde], tha [da] skêdon [skiltes] tha [de] flâta [flåter] fon [fra] ekkorum [hverandre]; fon [fra] nêf [nevø] Tünis [Tunis] is [er] aefternêi [etterpå] tâl [tale/beskjed] kêmen [kommet], fon [fra] nêf [nevø] Inka [Inka] ninmer [ingen mer].

Da begge nevøene således ikke kunne bli enige, gikk Tünis i gang og stakk ei rød fane ned i stranda, og Inka ei blå. Deretter kunne enhver velge hvem han ville følge. Og under! Til Inka, som hadde en avsmak for å tjene kongene av Findas folk, løp de fleste finner og magjarere over. Da de nå hadde telt folket og deretter delt skipene sine, skiltes flåtene fra hverandre. Om nevø Tünis er det etterpå kommet beskjed, fra nevø Inka aldri.

Well done !


#2967    Apol

Apol

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 157 posts
  • Joined:02 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hønefoss, Norway

Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:10 AM

View PostKnul, on 20 March 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

Da begge nevøene således ikke kunne bli enige, gikk Tünis i gang og stakk ei rød fane ned i stranda, og Inka ei blå. Deretter kunne enhver velge hvem han ville følge. Og under! Til Inka, som hadde en avsmak for å tjene kongene av Findas folk, løp de fleste finner og magjarere over. Da de nå hadde telt folket og deretter delt skipene sine, skiltes flåtene fra hverandre. Om nevø Tünis er det etterpå kommet beskjed, fra nevø Inka aldri.

Well done !

Yes, the translation I have published is changed for better getting the intentional meaning of the original text, which really has been a challenge. From time to time it is therefore in fact still not the best Norwegian either. If you translate word by word into Norwegian, you're getting a language which feels old-fashioned. It's especially the word order that makes it sound like that. Modern Norwegian is Danish which over time has become adapted back to a lot of hereditary innate Old Norwegian turns of speech, at the same time as it has received new impulses.
Look at my translation of 'Abramelin's Okke letter, which isn't done directly word by word.

Edited by Apol, 20 March 2013 - 05:33 AM.


#2968    Othar Winis

Othar Winis

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 658 posts
  • Joined:07 Mar 2013

Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:55 AM

View PostKnul, on 19 March 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

the OLB text is a word-for-word translation from a 19th c. Dutch or Frisian text to some sort of Old Frisian using a simplified grammar.

View PostAbramelin, on 19 March 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

the word order is 100 % similar to our modern Dutch or to 19th century Dutch.

That is not true.

Much of the word order and vocabulary is similar, but not all.
It is almost as easy for Germans (who have almost the same syntax as us), and as Apol has already shown, even for Scandinavians.

The people that have conquered and christened our lands have had hundreds of years to destroy all texts (except one?) that show we had an ancient culture. What is left are some crappy texts written by Latin-schooled monks who tried to write the language that they only knew in spoken form (and probably it may often not even have been their mother tongue).

Also, you have been brainwashed for centuries with the idea that all of our culture came from the Romans and Greeks.

As you saw on the archaeology maps, the area has been inhabited for thousands of years in relative continuity. The people may have temporarily moved a bit east and south, to move back when possible, or when driven back by invaders. There is no reason why the language of these people had to change dramatically.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#2969    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:43 AM

View Postgestur, on 20 March 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:




That is not true.

Much of the word order and vocabulary is similar, but not all.
It is almost as easy for Germans (who have almost the same syntax as us), and as Apol has already shown, even for Scandinavians.

The people that have conquered and christened our lands have had hundreds of years to destroy all texts (except one?) that show we had an ancient culture. What is left are some crappy texts written by Latin-schooled monks who tried to write the language that they only knew in spoken form (and probably it may often not even have been their mother tongue).

Also, you have been brainwashed for centuries with the idea that all of our culture came from the Romans and Greeks.

As you saw on the archaeology maps, the area has been inhabited for thousands of years in relative continuity. The people may have temporarily moved a bit east and south, to move back when possible, or when driven back by invaders. There is no reason why the language of these people had to change dramatically.

It is true, and what Apol translated into Norse may look the same, but there are enough sentences in the OLB he cannot translate into Norse using the same word order.

The Christians may have destroyed much of our culture and so on, but they were not capable to destroy all of the Aztec and Mayan cultures, though they have done their best at it.  Archeologists still dig up artifacts belonging to those cultures.

A culture that was supposed to be all over Europe only left ONE trace: a manuscript in a village in the Netherlands. Who believes that?

Plus: I never suggested that all of our culture came from the Romans and Greeks. If you really believe that, then you should read what I really posted throughout these years.


#2970    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:45 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 20 March 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

whereas our most ancient writings are as easy to read as those that were written yesterday.

I'd like you to show me an example of that.

Not from the OLB, of course.

Here, try to read this (without Googling):

Eiris sazun idisi, sazun hera duoder; suma hapt heptidun, suma heri lezidun, suma clubodun umbi cuoniouuidi: insprinc haptbandun, inuar uigandun

.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 March 2013 - 10:13 AM.





60 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 60 guests, 0 anonymous users